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Shaneburger
06-11-2006, 06:53 PM
Parents unhappy about school directive on food
02 Nov 2006
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SHAH ALAM: A primary school here has told non-Muslim pupils that they cannot bring "wet food" to the Children’s Day celebrations today. And their parents are not pleased...while Muslim pupils can bring wet food...Ishak said if non-Muslim children, for instance Hindu pupils, could not eat beef and had problems with the food brought by Muslim pupils, they should not eat it.


Malaysia Boleh!

Shaneburger
06-11-2006, 07:01 PM
link from http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Thursday/National/20061102095701/Article/local1_html

hhtee
06-11-2006, 08:14 PM
Thanks for starting this thread.

I find that the school authorities is VERY selfish.......

why not all students bring non-sensitive meat (Thanks to All-Urban for his suggestion) e.g. fish and chicken only????

Leave out the pork and beef.

This way, EVERYONE CAN EAT including the Hindus.

But NO...... the school is so selfish towards the Hindus, saying that, if the Hindus can eat, they shouldn't eat.....

Come on lah.... do unto others as you want others to do on to ya

hhtee
06-11-2006, 08:50 PM
But NO...... the school is so selfish towards the Hindus, saying that, if the Hindus can eat, they shouldn't eat.....

sorry guys, I meant


But NO...... the school is so selfish towards the Hindus, saying that, if the Hindus can't eat, they shouldn't eat.....

aimless
06-11-2006, 09:49 PM
my feeling is that what the school is trying to imply is that it is irrelevant what meat is actually brought - as long as it is wet food that means it is cooked in the same pots which may have cooked pork.

is that the way you guys are reading this as well?

again, sadness fills me for the future of this country.

hhtee
06-11-2006, 09:59 PM
Aimless,

if that is the case, what about the Hindus? what if the rest of the Non-Hindu students were cooking fish & chicken in pots that were used to cooked beef before?

It wouldn't be fair to the Hindu students, do you not think so ?

Alas....... what is going on in Malaysia?????
We must live together in harmony and in order to do that, we must be fair to one another....

bslee
06-11-2006, 10:28 PM
This is too much lah!.. I've never faced this sort of nonsense back in my old school days. We had class parties usually on the last day of school just before holidays and each of us brought home cooked food shared amongst everyone. There's was never a doubt or question amongst us halal or not. We just simply thought bring something that everyone can eat..no forbidden barang..and our parents had enough sense to ensure it too out of respect for everyone, needless of ANY reminder.

What is this country coming to huh?.. Trust, ethics, respect and common sense doesn't seem to improve, since we're supposed to be a more educated and affluent society now, instead the basic fundamentals of harmony is apparently going down the drain. These people who issued the directives certainly are either selfish or meatheads never realising it can cause insult, upset or other repercussions. All we need is our official "batu api" the local media picking it up..and its not rocket science what may happen next.
Frankly I SHAKEHEAD to hear of this sort of nonsense! :mad:

hhtee
06-11-2006, 10:39 PM
......and also TRUST each other in order to live in harmony

bslee
06-11-2006, 10:45 PM
Let me add a piece of my mind! Perhaps the WORST thing happening to our kids in public schools is THESE kind of people with THAT kinda MINDSET and MENTALITY taking charge of EDUCATING our kids!. I shrudder at thinking what more poison they capable of and instilling into the future generation.
I pray God would grant them a better fate in future.

penangkia
06-11-2006, 10:50 PM
Childrens' Day also must play this tune. :rolleyes:

I give up. :o

hhtee
06-11-2006, 10:51 PM
with that piece of your mind, I wonder what is the ministry of education doing about it.

A parent complained days ago, some even wrote to the letters to the editor (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Monday/Letters/20061106104800/Article/index_html ) and I wonder why the ministry keeping quiet....

Being quiet means ......???..

USJ27Resident
06-11-2006, 10:56 PM
Can't blame 'em... suddenly woke up and realised that they have to follow everything by the Book... no two ways about it, regardless of sensitivities or constraints... Mebbe there are signs that Judgement day is at hand - so better be prepared :eek:

Please la... why is it that every other freaking thread, after a few posting - suddenly borders on seditious and insensitive remarks that can/will rile another person faith and religious beliefs. Have we gotten sensitive as well? Or just cannot keep quiet with all this crap being thrown in our faces as well.

DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU'D WANT OTHERS TO DO TO YOU.... (similiar to the Petronas ad?) But if its only a one way street... what the fish are we suppose to do? Sit back and get slapped by a big trout? Oh by the way, these are probably the same buggers that PARTIED till the freaking sun came out the next day - stoned and half drunk!

ahtal68
07-11-2006, 01:45 AM
Sad to say, this the case in most schools. My sons were "advised" not sell any homemade food during the "Jualan/Hari Kantin". Not even sandwiches which consists of bread/cheese/cucumber and maybe some tuna or sardin which comes from a can.
Heck, not even homemade jelly or any type of drinks that doesn't come from cans/bottles or tetrapacks.

Personal experience, once volunteered at an open Hari Kantin at school and we were asked to operate the keropok lekor and pisang goreng stall. My fellow volunteers and I were politely hinted (at the last minute) to get new utensils and tupparewares to use during the frying/selling process, not for the lack of them, but to avoid "contamination". :confused:

USJ27Resident
07-11-2006, 02:02 AM
...., but to avoid "contamination". :confused:

Calling AllUrban... please advise/highlight to us on the subject of contamination by... and the process of "samak"... or cleansing..... for the benefit of everybody! Hopefully I too, will learn the proper way of cleaning my plates, cups, glasses, utensils etc etc (instead of just using the regular Cif/Glo/dishwashing liquids) before inviting my muslim friends over for dinner/makan.. ... TQ

sinleong
07-11-2006, 02:11 AM
This is too much lah!.. I've never faced this sort of nonsense back in my old school days. We had class parties usually on the last day of school just before holidays and each of us brought home cooked food shared amongst everyone. There's was never a doubt or question amongst us halal or not. We just simply thought bring something that everyone can eat..no forbidden barang..and our parents had enough sense to ensure it too out of respect for everyone, needless of ANY reminder.

What is this country coming to huh?.. Trust, ethics, respect and common sense doesn't seem to improve, since we're supposed to be a more educated and affluent society now, instead the basic fundamentals of harmony is apparently going down the drain. These people who issued the directives certainly are either selfish or meatheads never realising it can cause insult, upset or other repercussions. All we need is our official "batu api" the local media picking it up..and its not rocket science what may happen next.
Frankly I SHAKEHEAD to hear of this sort of nonsense! :mad:

yes, you are so right. i remember back in those school parties, my mom went out to buy new pots and pans to cook so that my muslim and hindu friends can eat. and my muslim and hindu friends ate our food without even a speck of suspicion that we could have used "tainted" crockery or used pork or beef ingredients. this is mutual respect for everyone. i don't see it at all today

bobble
07-11-2006, 08:42 AM
I think these people are enforcing Islam their own perverted way. They could always advise Muslim students to refrain from the 'wet food' if their conscience tells them so. Not by dictating what they other students should not bring.

AllUrban
07-11-2006, 09:10 AM
Calling AllUrban... please advise/highlight to us on the subject of contamination by... and the process of "samak"... or cleansing..... for the benefit of everybody! Hopefully I too, will learn the proper way of cleaning my plates, cups, glasses, utensils etc etc (instead of just using the regular Cif/Glo/dishwashing liquids) before inviting my muslim friends over for dinner/makan.. ... TQIf you want a religious opinion I cannot answer...but realistically....I dunno.

In my honest opinion, I think that lots of soap and hot water should be good enough to satisfy....

I mean, what gets things cleaner than soap and water? steam cleaning? Chemicals? Are they expecting things to be clean down to the molecular level? Atomic level? WTH?!?!?!?! :eek: :confused:

Im just waiting for the next level of stupidity...cannot send your clothes to the kedai dobi because the washing machine or dry cleaning chemicals might be contaminated...cannot breathe the same air as the air molecules are contaminated by the non-halal breath...... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Sheeeshhh..and this disposable plates and utensils idea...foolishness...I can imagine, when the oh-so-wise ones meet God and He says "did you not recall that I said I dont like those who WASTE"

cheers, m

hhtee
07-11-2006, 09:22 AM
samak in the traditional or ‘old’ sense means cleaning with sand.
sand has a purifying affect and that is why water filters use sand to clean dirty water.
today many modern cleansing agents that do the job better. Take Vim as one example. It is very coarse, like sand, and it can clean even black pots, pans and kettles and they become like new again.
http://www.malaysia-today.net/Raja_Petra/index.htm

I believe the above is an email from a father to a son
Check it OUT!

thkhong
07-11-2006, 09:27 AM
What happen to the Hadhari concept propunded by our "beloved and strongly supported PM". The way things are going, this country will turn into another Pakistan or Afghanistan. Beleivers of the faith are turning inwards to selfishness and suspicious anything to do with the "other contaminated world."

Our PM has no control over what his idiots are doing unlike the former PM.Silence is golden and only when there is a huge uproar do he reared his head. He is most of the time away from the country and when he comes back make non commital statements.

During my time, school was very transparent. We call each other names but with no malice. Why cant School heads be more open and dont be "A KATAK DI BAWA TEMPURONG". ALWAYS REMEMBER NOT ONLY ARE MUSLIMS SENSITIVE , OTHER FAITH BELEIVERS ARE ALSO SENSITIVE. BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO ROCK THE BOAT, WE ARE KEEPING MUM. THAT DOES NOT SHOW WE ARE WEAK!SO DO NOT ALWAYS USE ANY EXCUSE TO SAY THIS IS SENSITIVE AND THAT IS SENSITIVE!

LMei
07-11-2006, 09:54 AM
I think these people are enforcing Islam their own perverted way. They could always advise Muslim students to refrain from the 'wet food' if their conscience tells them so. Not by dictating what they other students should not bring.
I totally agree. If they can tell the Hindus to refrain from eating, why not the Muslims? This is sooo 'fair'!

JoeJaffar
07-11-2006, 10:16 AM
just to clarify,

the only way to samak is by washing the affected area 7 times, the 1st with water mixed with earth, and 6 with clean running water.

but what the school did wasn't right. they should've taught the kids the right way, not by banning things. they took the easy way out. they could've told the kids that hindus don't eat beef and muslim don't eat and can't touch pork (can be samak-ed tho. not the pork, but the clothings, pots, pans, body parts). but that doesn't mean one can't bring those at all. if the kids can understand, they will know what to do. or they could've asked these kids to label the food that they brought along.

hhtee
07-11-2006, 11:10 AM
Joe Jaffar, thanks for your input on Samak but what is your point of view on Raja Petra Kamarrudin's "email to his son" ?

He thinks that samak using earth / sand is traditional and today, more powerful agents can now be used.

uchangeng
07-11-2006, 11:13 AM
let's all go vegetarian. Good for health, good for evrything and everyone!

When we go vegies, we can not eat meat, can not drink alcohol and many other things.

This means, if we have to go overseas or China to do bzness, we are in trouble, not adaptable!

Somemore, we have to observe strict religious rules, can not many other thingss, almost a holy man mentality. How to survive globalization?

libra
07-11-2006, 11:32 AM
They are suspicious not only the ingredients of the food but also the utensils used to cook.

My son brought some sausage bun to school (it's Farm Best - chicken of course) and when he wanted to have a bit of it the Muslim kids in the canteen shouted at him as if he did some terrible thing.

Kids are innocent. This reaction comes from adults that 'brain-washed' them into trusting each others based on FAITH only

JoeJaffar
07-11-2006, 11:54 AM
Joe Jaffar, thanks for your input on Samak but what is your point of view on Raja Petra Kamarrudin's "email to his son" ?

He thinks that samak using earth / sand is traditional and today, more powerful agents can now be used.

in my understanding, Islam considers earth as one of the cleanest substance besides water. Earth/dust from earth can be used as a substitute to clean oneself after going to the loo or to take wudhu', if there are no clean water available. And in the Quran, it's stated that man are created from earth (can't remember the verse tho, sorry about that), and that's why Muslims aren't to be cremated, but burried properly. and since Islam considers dogs, pigs, any byproducts of either two or a combination of these two as a major najis, then then only way to clean this is by using earth mixed in water. even when there exist VIM, JIF, clorox superbleaching thingamagic or what nots, spiritually it's still not clean. So I can't agree with RPK's thought on that.

hhtee
07-11-2006, 12:43 PM
thanks for the explaination JJ.
glad you are sharing your views on the process of Samak.

AllUrban
07-11-2006, 01:20 PM
hmm....I wonder who started this idea that new utensils are better than samak? Plastic utensil manufacturers.....hmmmmmm........

If samak is all that is spiritually necessary....then all the people who are buying new/plastic utensils....should just buy a big bucket of dirt/sand (maybe pure, new, white beach sand) and invite their muslims guests to oversee the process of Samak....no excuses then....and a chance to share in the culture...

and then there is more muhibbah and friendliness, less waste, and God is a little less disappointed in humankind

no, more likely that people would just find another excuse not to be friendly...again, the problem is not with the faith but the faithful...

Cheers, m

hhtee
07-11-2006, 01:39 PM
I am now confused (i.e. is Samak necessarily done with earth / sand) as I am having two different viewpoints. but I keep my mind open

alexhay
07-11-2006, 01:55 PM
And now a school is trying to create a public outcry and religion issue? Are these fellows being brainwashed. What happen to the harmony ?

My muslim friends came to my house warming party. I ensure that there is no pork being cook and they do eat together with us. Why must things must be new when serve food to muslims. I really hate all these bull****. There are just corrupting the mind of children.

During my school days, we (muslim, chinese, indians and etc) share our food among each other. My malay friends would just ask, ada babi tak. I say no. Then they just take and eat it.

Now there is a lot of chinese restaurant are selling their food without pork.(no halal signage) So can a muslim go there and eat ?

In the dog unit of the police force, there is muslim work as a dog handler. Is that consider haram too ? I think in the future that all the police that in the dog unit must be a non muslim as its haram to touch a dog also...

all this basically are some idiot with really low mentallity to come out with all these.

we must live and respect each other religion. Not barring people from eating.

just my opinion..really getting pissoff with all the issue that is coming out now...

hhtee
07-11-2006, 02:02 PM
In the dog unit of the police force, there is muslim work as a dog handler. Is that consider haram too ? I think in the future that all the police that in the dog unit must be a non muslim as its haram to touch a dog also...

...
thanks for the interesting story about sharing your food with your friends of other religions.

Just from my observation, (i may be wrong), most of the time, I see the dog handlers is somebody whose religion is not likely to be Muslim. (just my observation)......

alexhay
07-11-2006, 02:08 PM
hhtee...there are muslim dog handlers..my friend from the police force told me this...)

JoeJaffar
07-11-2006, 02:17 PM
there are Bumiputeras in Sarawak & Sabah that uses malay-like names but aren't muslim, some may have similar facial features and skin-tones too. If I'm not mistaken, like Idris bin Jala (MAS CEO).

Islam permits the believers to keep dogs, not as pet but for protection. But one still has to samak if the muslim's skin or clothes or whatever came into contact with the dog. clothes can be thrown away tho if one sees fit. since some find it a hassle to samak, they prefer the easier way out by avoiding contact with dogs.

uchangeng
07-11-2006, 02:20 PM
and... we are talking about encouraging non-Malay to go to Sekolah Kebangsaan., "perkasakan sekolah kebangsaan".

All this going on about clean and unclean food, halal and non-halal wet-food, wearing of "tudung", prayers in the class/in every school activity and baju-kurung for female students are not helping. They divide!

Now, we see politikus are talking about Bangsa Malaysia as someone who does not question the special right of a special race. And that the special race should not be ashame of keep asking and receiving handouts from the government as it is their special right after all. What are we trying to do here, Bangsa Malaysia that have different layers of citizens?

bslee
07-11-2006, 02:23 PM
Islam permits the believers to keep dogs, not as pet but for protection. But one still has to samak if the muslim's skin or clothes or whatever came into contact with the dog. clothes can be thrown away tho if one sees fit. since some find it a hassle to samak, they prefer the easier way out by avoiding contact with dogs.

VERY RIGHT!.
My dad in law rears a pack of dogs for his small kebun to keep away intruders, 2 or 4 legged ones ..no big deal lah!. Only the kampung folk around there may have some hidden feelings of despise..and were even suspected responsible for dogs "suddenly disappeared or lost".. Its the mindset of some that irks!. :rolleyes:

Ok on halal or haram food.. which is worse?.. with forbidden stuff but prepared hygienly or halal food which is contaminated because of lack of hygiene which has happened many a time like school students hospitalized for food poisoning..in the news twice I've read.
I think the MOH should strictly educate and enforce upon ALL food vendors to very high hygiene standards which is essential and beneficial to ALL.
Malaysia is still long long way from proper hygiene. Tell me I'm wrong.

burntan
07-11-2006, 02:27 PM
Just a small matter like that happened in a single school and you guys can disccuss up to 3 pages...... isn't it a bit over sensitive?

alexhay
07-11-2006, 02:29 PM
although is a small matter, we would not know if these also happens in other schools too...

what the parents did is right by exposing it out. Even the Education Ministry did not comment on this issue. This is a very sentative issue.

bslee
07-11-2006, 02:35 PM
what the parents did is right by exposing it out. Even the Education Ministry did not comment on this issue. This is a very sentative issue.

We're living and realizing sensitive times lah!. Many of these sensitivities were unheard of 3-4 decades ago. I say blame it on our local education system! Its poisoning our kids!. :cool:

hhtee
07-11-2006, 02:35 PM
Just a small matter like that happened in a single school and you guys can disccuss up to 3 pages...... isn't it a bit over sensitive?
In post number 13, (page 1), ahtal68 mentioned that it happens in ahtal68's son's school

So I think what we are discussing is just the tip of the Ice Kacang

penangkia
07-11-2006, 02:50 PM
Just a small matter like that happened in a single school and you guys can disccuss up to 3 pages...... isn't it a bit over sensitive?

That's typical bn thinking. No need to nip a problem in the bud. Let it rot to the core, then ask " If well pull down this bangalow, what about others"

Next time, if some morons burn down a church or temple, we should not discuss more than one page. Afterall, it's only 1 small structure in batu empat dalam...no big deal.

Wait till they burn 10, then we " investigate"

alexhay
07-11-2006, 03:03 PM
We're living and realizing sensitive times lah!. Many of these sensitivities were unheard of 3-4 decades ago. I say blame it on our local education system! Its poisoning our kids!. :cool:

yup i agree...during my school days that is around 15 ~20 years ago, i dont hear such things..we all play and play until there is no tommorrow and we are always looking forward to children day where all of us will bring food from home and eat together

charis14
07-11-2006, 03:17 PM
Question which I will have in my mind.... Is this also the practise in Kelantan? Having been controlled by PAS for the past decade, how are things like? We have the perception that things must be quite radical. But what is the true status? Anyone who are familiar enough to share?

bobble
07-11-2006, 03:23 PM
Question which I will have in my mind.... Is this also the practise in Kelantan? Having been controlled by PAS for the past decade, how are things like? We have the perception that things must be quite radical. But what is the true status? Anyone who are familiar enough to share?

If there is a hint of any slight transgressions by the Kelantan state govt, the BN politicians and mainstream media would not hesitate to pounce on them. Remember how Nik Aziz was condemned for saying things which were not quite right some time back?

At least they make rules, such as having separate queues for shoppers, clear from the outset. The people have no problem following them. There were no news that people who flouted these rules being ill-treated. It is quite a peaceful state. Enough said.

JoeJaffar
07-11-2006, 03:57 PM
Ok on halal or haram food.. which is worse?.. with forbidden stuff but prepared hygienly or halal food which is contaminated because of lack of hygiene ...

both are not permissible. just because it's haram meat according to islam doesn't make it halal if prepared using the most advanced food processing and preparation techniques. halal is also about cleanliness and hygiene, from hatchlings all the way to the main dish.

dragonfly
07-11-2006, 04:43 PM
let's all go vegetarian. Good for health, good for evrything and everyone!

When we go vegies, we can not eat meat, can not drink alcohol and many other things.

This means, if we have to go overseas or China to do bzness, we are in trouble, not adaptable!

Somemore, we have to observe strict religious rules, can not many other thingss, almost a holy man mentality. How to survive globalization?

Even if we go vegetarian......questions will still be asked. Whom did you buy the vege from? Did you keep it in your fridge with other non-halal stuff prior to cooking? If the vege is bought from non muslim, pig excrement could have been used as fertiliser........and I have heard that sawi and kuchai in particular grow more leafy and healthy with the said fertiliser!!

hhtee
07-11-2006, 04:57 PM
I don't know if I am correct. From the inputs that I had so far, earth is something that purifies "najis". So even if you use ferterlisers, I am sure the earth would "purify" it. So the vegetable would be deemed halal.

I don't know if I am correct as I am no Muslim.

JoeJaffar
07-11-2006, 05:05 PM
Even if we go vegetarian......questions will still be asked. Whom did you buy the vege from? Did you keep it in your fridge with other non-halal stuff prior to cooking? If the vege is bought from non muslim, pig excrement could have been used as fertiliser........and I have heard that sawi and kuchai in particular grow more leafy and healthy with the said fertiliser!!

halalness is from source to stomach; i.e. how it was raised/farmed, what feed/fertilizer used, how it was prepared, etc. a muslim always wants to know and ensure what he/she eats is halal.

then again, what happenned at bkt jelutong is as what allurban said, it's the faithful not the faith.

penangkia
07-11-2006, 06:09 PM
Kids don't mince their words.

Imagine 1 kid telling another :

"My mother say your cake is unclean and I cannot even touch it"....poor little Angeline walks away with tears in her eyes for just trying to share her favourite cake with her best friend.

Long Live Bangsa Malaysia.

USJ27Resident
07-11-2006, 09:58 PM
Just a small matter like that happened in a single school and you guys can disccuss up to 3 pages...... isn't it a bit over sensitive?

Now really... who would you be referring to... the school authorities or the forummers... huh... :rolleyes:


ALWAYS REMEMBER NOT ONLY ARE MUSLIMS SENSITIVE , OTHER FAITH BELEIVERS ARE ALSO SENSITIVE. BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO ROCK THE BOAT, WE ARE KEEPING MUM. THAT DOES NOT SHOW WE ARE WEAK!!

...took the words out of my mouth, couldn't have said it any better... :p