Do not post untruths...

[kwchang]

So, finally, it is decided -you should read it in TheStar about Those who spread untruths on the Net will be detained (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/8/2/nation/15022918&sec=nation&focus=1)

The PM had issued a warning to people who "spread untruths and slander on the Internet".

See, see, I told you so ..... many, many times oredi.
Now you can go to jail instead of the banana plantation. ;) :)

[aurora97]

I doubt it will have any legal significance, whether the Prosecutors can manage to built a strong case against any offender because 75% of information on the web can be very misleading and distorted.

Take Singapores "Talking cock" (http://www.talkingcock.com/) Web site for example, they use real life information and distort it mix it up and turn it into a sarcastic humour and at times offensive.

Even with Singapores strict law, they were sued for libel but without any success and their premises raided.

I am not asking people to randomly post stuff on the internet, but taking to action against people who publish material on the web site is nonetheless not a wise idea. It is a grey area in which the government just like what they did to the mass media in Malaysia (exception Astro) start to censor the internet, to the extent that only Government approved materials can be posted? Malaysia is not China and we do not need the constant dependence and watchful eye of the government to lead our lives.

Nevertheless, it is always wise to abide and follow rules of the forum. This rules are there for a purpose not to restrict our freedom, but to ensure that this forum remains a forum for discussion without any malafide intentions.

[kwchang]

Me I am a chicken and have no dreams of being superman. Hence I don't want any heat from the Heat, if you know what I mean. It is a hassle not worth my sacrifice keeping you people in check. If someone wants to tempt execution of our cyberlaws, PLEASE do it elsewhere because I am so avian-inclined that I'd probably henpeck you people to death if you want to be superman.

See, aurora, you have already said it
very misleading and distorted ... so why can't we keep our posts simple and straight forward and whenever it sounds 'distorted' - please check it out, get references, check out the references, et cetera ... and if in doubt, just stop posting lah.

[jasonbhlee]

So, finally, it is decided -you should read it in TheStar about Those who spread untruths on the Net will be detained (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/8/2/nation/15022918&sec=nation&focus=1)

The PM had issued a warning to people who "spread untruths and slander on the Internet".

See, see, I told you so ..... many, many times oredi.
Now you can go to jail instead of the banana plantation. ;) :)


Normally we post news which are true. It is just that people cannot accept it as truth. They label it as sensitive. What you say to that? My level of acceptance is different from yours....so how?

[yvonnefoong]

I don't understand though. Who will decide what is slander and what is falsity in this case? Besides, even newspaper opinions should receive priviledge as rhetorical hyperboles. Are our citizens with right thinking minds too naive to discern opinions from facts, to the point that it affects their judgements? If we are that naive, then should the standard of Malaysian education given to us be blamed? I won't ask Chang to risk for us, but what is going to happen to Malaysia if we agree to internet policing? If only those who disagree would object with one voice.

[joker2107]

i m sure many detractors of tdm are now clamouring for his return :rolleyes:
btw, truth is sometimes a mere perspective, depending on what game is being played and who the players are. nonetheless, i'd be please with deterents which assist forumers to think before typing.

[aurora97]

Me I am a chicken and have no dreams of being superman. Hence I don't want any heat from the Heat, if you know what I mean. It is a hassle not worth my sacrifice keeping you people in check. If someone wants to tempt execution of our cyberlaws, PLEASE do it elsewhere because I am so avian-inclined that I'd probably henpeck you people to death if you want to be superman.

See, aurora, you have already said it ... so why can't we keep our posts simple and straight forward and whenever it sounds 'distorted' - please check it out, get references, check out the references, et cetera ... and if in doubt, just stop posting lah.


Like i said in the end quoting myself:
"Nevertheless, it is always wise to abide and follow rules of the forum. This rules are there for a purpose not to restrict our freedom, but to ensure that this forum remains a forum for discussion without any malafide intentions."

I am just giving my 2cents and the otherside of the coin scenario, i think i am still entitled to that right?

kwchang as an administrator in a forum its no easy task everyone should know this, i appreciate the fact that you constantly keep the forum in check and everything in tip top condition. Unlike other forums which if kept unchecked for a couple of days, situations could go amok or worse. Hence, i would like to say thank you and keep up the good work. :D

[mon]

Like i said in the end quoting myself:
"Nevertheless, it is always wise to abide and follow rules of the forum. This rules are there for a purpose not to restrict our freedom, but to ensure that this forum remains a forum for discussion without any malafide intentions."

kwchang as an administrator in a forum its no easy task everyone should know this, i appreciate the fact that you constantly keep the forum in check and everything in tip top condition. Unlike other forums which if kept unchecked for a couple of days, situations could go amok or worse. Hence, i would like to say thank you and keep up the good work. :D

I agree. Never had the chance to really say "thank you Chang"

Thank you Chang.

[hhtee]

Perhaps the mechanism on how it is possible for a forumer / blogger to be caught should be discussed so that future / current forumer / blogger would not be tempted to post things irresponsibly.

Is there some sort of logging system whenever one posts something on the net ?

[bugbear]

You know kwchang, what AAB said is tantamount to regulation and censorship of the internet. By saying thus, he is opening ways to prosecute all and saundry. This is the saddest day for free speech. AAB should be coutious in what he is saying lest it be contrue as going against the spirit of MSC. :eek:

[kwchang]

Perhaps the mechanism on how it is possible for a forumer / blogger to be caught should be discussed so that future / current forumer / blogger would not be tempted to post things irresponsibly
Why should someone need to know the loopholes for escape?
That is not the 'netiquette' that this website had been pushing all long.
We have our goal of educating citizens for responsible usage of the net.
I thank joker2107 and aurora97 for their comments...

..i'd be please with deterents which assist forumers to think before typing..

rules are there for a purpose not to restrict our freedom, but to ensure that this forum remains a forum for discussion without any malafide intentions

jasonbhlee, it is not about absolute freedom to say ANYthing just because it is true or perceived to be true. Posting on the web requires RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY. If everyone are responsible and accountable PLUS being sensitive to their fellow human beings, there will never be any necessity for cyber-police. Let me put it this way, there are more ways to skin a cat (with apologies to pet lovers), hence avoid the confrontational ways. We are hoping that those ways evolved away with the Neanderthals but we cannot help noticing that some Neanderthals are roaming aplenty in our midsts.

the bottomline is self-censorship
with this, there will never be any need to censor the Internet

[isarahim]

Now you can go to jail instead of the banana plantation. ;) :)
Is that true?

[Teeque]

The truth is, truth hurts. censor or no censor.

[blues]

[QUOTE=kwchang]Me I am a chicken and have no dreams of being superman. Hence I don't want any heat from the Heat, if you know what I mean. It is a hassle not worth my sacrifice keeping you people in check. If someone wants to tempt execution of our cyberlaws, PLEASE do it elsewhere because I am so avian-inclined that I'd probably henpeck you people to death if you want to be superman.QUOTE]

ya kwchang ! the same.

some forumers were trying to be the champion of all.
we read....and they may have record ?

[sirgalahad2010]

The reports have spread to Spore.

Heading of a report by Reme Ahmad reporting from KL in today's Spore Straits Times (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg): "Internet users fear govt crackdown".

The first line of the report: "The cyberspace community in Malaysia is bracing itself for a possible crackdown after PM Abdullah Badawi issued a warning against those who spread 'incorrect infomation and slander' on the Internet".

The report said that popular blogger aisehman has declared that he would stop writing for a while as he is concerned about what is to happen.

The report also said that the police are taking action against malaysiakini.com over a post that blamed the police for the pepper spray incident.

Straws in the wind? Or a warning not to go beyond the OB (Out-of-Bounds) markers?

Let us not delude ourselves. In Spore, the IT and info hub of the region, the govt has cracked down on blogs that were deemed to infringe on racial and religious sensitivities, with some bloggers being brought to court.

And in the US, the supposed bastion of free speech, blogs that spew racial hatred have been shut down, either by the govt or by the hosts themselves. Journalists in the US have been prosecuted and jailed for not revealing the sources for their investigative reports.

People think that freedom of speech on the Internet is absolute. It is not. Its liking giving a kid a box of matches, then standing back with arms folded and saying that you are not responsible if the kid starts a fire, simply because he doesn't know any better. Do you wait for the fire to get started before trying to put it out, or take away the box of matches first?

[hhtee]

I am always eager to find out the mechanism that leads to destruction so as to remind myself that never to lead myself to that path. But since you mentioned that this would permit others to be aware of the “loopholes”, I understand why this shall not be discussed.

[Sugarfree]

I believe if one speaks the truth, then there's nothing to worry about. Period. :D

[isarahim]

People think that freedom of speech on the Internet is absolute. It is not.
It doesn't help the cause if 'freedom of speech' is in any sort of way lumped together with 'racism', 'slandering', 'defamation' etc. There are already existing laws to deal with those.

Just because 'racism', 'slandering', 'defamation' etc should be illegal, this comprise no basis whatsoever to conclude that 'freedom of speech' is not absolute within sensible boundaries. Freedom of speech is indeed absolute in most western and many Asian countries within those sensible boundaries. In Malaysia it is not.

However, the notion of 'truth' is far more dangerous. Because it depends who defines and enforces what the 'truth' is. Who owns the 'truth'? We know perfectly well that from time to time, the government has proclaimed that its stances on certain significant matters comprise the 'truth', but several years later it has been revealed that this was not the case, and, de facto, the government had been enforcing an 'untruth' as being the 'truth'.

This means that our precious whistleblowers are under more threat than they ever have been, because from now on it is clear that one can be detained for telling the truth.

[orchipalar]

However, the notion of 'truth' is far more dangerous. Because it depends who defines and enforces what the 'truth' is. Who owns the 'truth'? We know perfectly well that from time to time, the government has proclaimed that its stances on certain significant matters comprise the 'truth', but several years later it has been revealed that this was not the case, and, de facto, the government had been enforcing an 'untruth' as being the 'truth'.

This means that our precious whistleblowers are under more threat that they ever have been, because from now on it is clear that one can be detailed for telling the truth.Err...Saudara IsaRahim:)...that's beyond doubt...to be the truth n nothing but the truths...

One man's meat...is another man's poisons...where the truth hurts the most...

[isarahim]

I believe if one speaks the truth, then there's nothing to worry about. Period.

On the contrary, I fear it is. See my earlier post.

[isarahim]

Simpadan is a good recent example.

The government 'truth' was that the previous private operators had been exploiting the Island and that it was in dearth need of 'conservation'. Hence, the government, as soon as the international court issue was settled, went ahead and threw out the private operators.

The truth was later revealed to be totally the opposite. The previous private operators depended on the island for their livelihood. They were also passionate divers and environmentalists. Hence they cared for it as much as anyone can care for anything. The left Simpadan after themselves in mint condition.

Instead it is now the 'conservation' that is destroying the island.

[Sugarfree]

On the contrary, I fear it is. See my earlier post.
Know where you're coming from, dude. You make a lot of sense. Very sad Bolehland is in such a state but then again, we don't call this Bolehland for nothing, do we? Sighhh..... :cool:

[palmdoc]

What Doctors Think of Politicians (http://medicine.com.my/wp/?p=1262) :D

[tupai]

Simpadan is a good recent example.

The government 'truth' was that the previous private operators had been exploiting the Island and that it was in dearth need of 'conservation'. ..
...The truth was later revealed to be totally the opposite. ...
Instead it is now the 'conservation' that is destroying the island.

the truth is the self-righteous, God fearing government is lying thru their stinking rotten teeth!

we had to recruit international divers to gain some sorta strength recently...they just lie and lie and lie to me (childish, uneducated, ignorant, bodoh JoeJanepopulation)

Are they going to arrest/charge us for the sipadan expose? For trying to save their lying political souls from the damnation of hell, for destroying everything thats The ONE had created?

AHHHHHHH!!!!!

Yang Amat Benggang lato tupai

[sirgalahad2010]

I don't think that the PM is bothered with stuff like the exposes on Sipadan (not Simpadan!), MRR2, MAS, IPPs, the Bank Negara forex debacle, Proton etc. In all of these cases, there are records and hard facts.

No, it is when people start pushing the envelope on racial and religious matters and invoke the mantras of "free speech" and "truth", that things start to go off track.

Using the analogy of a kid with a box of matches, do you teach the kid what not to do with the matches or take the matches away from him before he starts a fire? Unintentionally, mind you, and with no malice meant towards anyone, but a fire still the same.

As some one who went through 5/13, I have no wish to see those days ever come back again. And if that means erring on the side of caution, then so be it.

So, what are the "OB" markers for Malaysia?

[AllUrban]

So, what are the "OB" markers for Malaysia?speaking as a semi-outside observer....

shouldnt the "OB" markers be the same universally....It is "OB" when you have the intent to hurt or injure.

Of course, the ideas of "intent" and "hurt" are pretty tough to define....the details are different in all societies...just as laws are different as well...

So the solution is to at situations, cases, and examples and discuss them...

but at the same time you are being advised (told, really, directly or indirectly) dont look at cases and examples, and dont discuss them.....and sometimes this advice is given along with veiled, semi-veiled, and even nearly-naked threats

But, as it stands....how about we make a list as a courtesy to friends, family, society, and forumers?

"Intent to hurt" means:
*being critical of a race or religion in a clearly negative way

Cheers, m

[joker2107]

However, the notion of 'truth' is far more dangerous. Because it depends who defines and enforces what the 'truth' is. Who owns the 'truth'?
remember dead poet's society? what is truth? what is the destiny?
remember also the rm490mil joke? what is the truth - pak lah's statement or the sports minister's? or the ethnics studies fiasco? is the minister more truthful that the pm? or even this very subject, cyber policing, itself - is lky more truthful than the cabinet?

[isarahim]

I don't think that the PM is bothered with stuff like the exposes on Sipadan (not Simpadan!), MRR2, MAS, IPPs, the Bank Negara forex debacle, Proton etc.
He might not be bothered. But I am. Others are. (Thanks for the spell correction, btw).

No, it is when people start pushing the envelope on racial and religious matters and invoke the mantras of "free speech" and "truth", that things start to go off track.
Not at all. One will only invoke the other with clumsy and/or hidden agenda governance. Many countries with worse history of racism than Malaysia have 'freedom of speech' today.

[blues]

Many countries with worse history of racism than Malaysia have 'freedom of speech' today.

let us know, please !

[AllUrban]

Many countries with worse history of racism than Malaysia have 'freedom of speech' today.And, sadly, many countries with a stronger history of 'freedom of speech' than Malaysia have to deal with racism today.

Cheers, m

[isarahim]

let us know, please !

South Africa
Germany
Croatia
Japan

nuff?

[isarahim]

And, sadly, many countries with a stronger history of 'freedom of speech' than Malaysia have to deal with racism today.
Please enlighten me. As far as I know, no country today, except for Malaysia, has institutionalised racism.


The United Nations uses a definition of racial discrimination laid out in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination and adopted in 1966: ...any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life..

[shali]

Malaysia..ooooo...Malaysia...what's happening to you.

The deeper i go into Friedman's latest book "The World is Flat" - top of the chart stuff - and after making some elementary comparisons with OECD and WTO data, the more i feel that, it would be difficult, even on unilateral basis, to declare ourselves as a developed nation, come 2020. There are many indicators/tests to become a developed country, and remarks by Govt about 'spreading untruths' via sms/email will never help the Government in the long run.

These are some of the indicators to become a developed natuion

Modern infrastructure (physical and institutional)
Free market
High GDP
High human development index
The perceived standard of living, freedom, happiness, art, environmental health, and innovation relative to already developed nations
High standard of living eg health care
Quality of life – happiness, leisure, safety, cultural resources, social life, mental health, freedom, art, environmental health, and innovation, Pareto index
Economy is non-agriuclture and non-natural resources exploitation, and high k-economy content


Now hear this:
Malas-sia is ranked 61 (HDI) in the world. Russia is at no.62.

Think about it. :rolleyes:

[blues]

South Africa
Germany
Croatia
Japan

nuff?

still vague research ?

SA - apartheid
germany - east/west....
croatia - communist ?
japan - population ethnic group 99.4% japanese, racism ?

no thanks.period.

[aurora97]

let us know, please !
Blues i believe The United States of America will be a more suitable example to answer your question, even with a written constitution protecting the rights and freedom of its people discrimination and racism continues to persist.

Take for example the American Civil War, WWI & II, and of course American Civil Rights movements led by Martin Lurther King.

America emerge from a period of discrimination and racism to become champions of liberty and freedom of speech instead.

[isarahim]

still vague research ?
SA - apartheid
germany - east/west....
croatia - communist ?
japan - population ethnic group 99.4% japanese, racism ?

Yes that is very vague research indeed! Instead it should be:

SA - Apartheid (at least you got one correct)
Germany - Anti-semitism through National Socialism
Croatia - Discrimination of Croatians by Serbs
Japan - Anti-sinoism and Japanese racialism of Japanese Imperialism

[pucman]

Is the government saying that they always publish all the truths in the newspapers ? :rolleyes:

Please don't practise double standards.

[AllUrban]

Please enlighten me. As far as I know, no country today, except for Malaysia, has institutionalised racism.Well, many of the "freedom of speech" countries are dealing with racism....but not really "institutionalized" racism....

but is latent racism any less terrible than institutionalized racism?

cheers, m

[isarahim]

but is latent racism any less terrible than institutionalized racism?
I guess I should have said 'constitutionalised' rather than 'institutionalised' racism. Because what I meant to describe is when racism accelerates due to certain "legitimate forms" of racism, whose mere existence, and the always very blur boundaries it thrives on, might be exploited by some groups, and lead to a sense of systematic unfairness to others.

I agree that the expression of latent racism is equally terrible to institutionalised/constitutionalised racism. But the key point is that any "legitimate form" constitutes an irregularity which skews the justice system. Any such irregularity is a breeding ground for racism.

If we take the US as an example again, it was the freedom of speech which finally did away with racial segregation. If there had been any constitutional support for racial segregation, there might have been another civil war. Yes, racism is still alive in the US, but it is constitutionally illegal. Hence, those that are victims of racism at least have a stance.