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kevin23
16-07-2006, 08:17 PM
We were having a drink in SS15 Darulssalam.Then came these plain clothes policemen who demanded out ICs.So we handed them over.He then randomly selected a few people there,roughly ten all chinese and asked us to go to the SS17 police station.We asked him why we had to go there,he said "oh,ada datuk mau cam awak"

I demanded my IC back,but he insisted i go to the police station first.So he asked us to pay for our drinks .Some took the "police" van while i drove there.

Once there,we were put into a room and made to wait for about 15 minutes.After that we were asked to go out and stand in a line.While we were wondering what was going on,one of the police asked the datuk to come upstairs.

So there was this datuk,some short botak malay fella which i dont know at all.So he came and walked past us.As he walked past us,he touched one of them as to indicate something.The guy he touched was some bigsized gangster looking guy.

But i just kept looking to the floor.Once everything was done,i asked the police what were they doing.They just told me that this "datuk" borrowed some money from the ahlongs and since he couldnt pay back they have started to harrass him.He lodged a police report and WE,innocent citizens had to suffer.

The fact was that the 3 ahlongs were already at the police station the time we arrived.The police just wanted to make sure that the datuk picked the correct person.After that,some indian policeman thankz us for our help.

Just wanna knowlah,do the police have the right to interrupt us and direct us to go to the police station?

tupai
16-07-2006, 08:28 PM
Yes.

And please they are not stupid. Have a bit of respect for the law...A bad apple doesnot represent the whole barrel!

You happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and you somehow fitted the general physical make up with the real baddie :eek:

Yang Amat Brat Pity-looking lato tupai :D :D

kevin23
16-07-2006, 08:31 PM
Thankz.Oh well,i respect the law and so should you.

orchipalar
16-07-2006, 08:34 PM
Err...Kelvin23:)...consider yourself doing a good community deed...TQ:)

Ahem...despite what ya think...please don't condemn them...we do need the police more so now than any other times before...

tupai
16-07-2006, 08:35 PM
Thankz.Oh well,i respect the law and so should you.

hahhahahah...i am lawless esp when i tidor :D

Yang Amat Berikut undang undang lato tupai

aurora97
16-07-2006, 08:37 PM
Ermm.. Tupai,

I thought citizens have right to deny going for an ID parade (well from Kevin side of his story it sounded like it, especially when the police selected 10 people min. requirement for ID parade + all chinese --the Ah long should be chinese as well, meaning the accuse person).

Well Kevin23 the Red Book introduce by the Bar Council should afford you some protection.

Refer to the Malaysian Bar Web site:

http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,333/Itemid,120/

You have a duty to assist the police in their investigation, but that duty is only a moral obligation to my understanding. Unless of course you witnesss a crime in progress that you'd be under a legal obligation to assist.

mon
16-07-2006, 09:06 PM
You have a duty to assist the police in their investigation, but that duty is only a moral obligation to my understanding. Unless of course you witnesss a crime in progress that you'd be under a legal obligation to assist.

That was why kevin23 was thanked alas.


After that,some indian policeman thankz us for our help.

bugbear
16-07-2006, 10:08 PM
Err KWChang,...can we change to title of this thread to a more civilize one? I don't think I quite agree with it.

de_scorpio
16-07-2006, 10:56 PM
I dun quite like the tityle of this thread. But it also tell how bad the impression people has towards the police force.

Why most people dun respect them?

burntan
16-07-2006, 11:41 PM
I guess if those police ask nicely at the first place..... after all they are not the suspect and are definately not under arrest.

aurora97
16-07-2006, 11:48 PM
Just wanna knowlah,do the police have the right to interrupt us and direct us to go to the police station?

Dear Mon,
Actually i am quite curious as well whether the police can interrupt, and ask folks to go for an ID. Parade. I am not suggesting that everyone should make life difficult for the police, but at least knowing some basic rights would help.
If your answer to the Policeman is "Yes" fine, but what if you have some urgent matters to attend to and you answered "No"?

Another problem here, the plain cloth's policeman took Kevin's IC and refuse to return it and asked him to collect it in the police station.

Furthermore, i doubt Kevin was even explained what an ID Parade was leaving him clueless as to why he was dragged/ haul up to the police station.

Being haul up and having a free ride to a Police Station is fine, but some times the public (80% of the time) mistaken this people who were going to an ID parade for committing Vice activities and were busted. People talk and rumours spread, "Mr X was arrested that night, at that coffee shop must be a crook!"

Well all the above depends on the action of the police, as long as they don't hand-cuff you and use physical violence/verbal abuse.

Always being curious about the "What If", pardon my curiousity Mon.

I agree with a change in title, i don't think the cops did anything wrong just a minor case of misunderstanding and execution of duty.

drewkool
16-07-2006, 11:54 PM
I had experienced the call up from an inspector at cawangan penyiasatan jenayah.

Went to the branch as requested, near subang airport, wasn't informed about what was happening & in fact, the case was road rage involving 2 bullies & a victim & samurai parangs & wooden rod.

Kasi pengadu cam, kalo betul, tangkap (was 1 of the phrases, the conversation between the chief & the inspector).

In fact, I was working & far away when the incident happened. The cars' number plates were clones, I was told to leave before kena cam when they found out the very same car with same number plate was still parked nicely somewhere out there.

The police was indeed talking in deep voices, they soften in mid & especially towards the end.

Err... what's the point? Just a sharing.. :D

drewkool
17-07-2006, 12:01 AM
Another problem here, the plain cloth's policeman took Kevin's IC and refuse to return it and asked him to collect it in the police station.

Forcefully, i supposed it's wrong.


Furthermore, i doubt Kevin was even explained what an ID Parade was leaving him clueless as to why he was dragged/ haul up to the police station.

At the other part, says if, Police confronted the correct culprit, should they inform the culprit why is (s)he demanded?

It always good to inform so we feel less reluctant, it fits our curiosity & cures anxiety. I hope they do tell in the 1st place, but like my previous case, if it was me who did involve in parangs + road bullying... Bye, i'm on the run first :D

Yup yup, title is offensive, i vote to change :cool:

patrick
17-07-2006, 12:04 AM
I and my friends also experienced this during our school days. The polis explained they have to pick random people off the street which meant they were innocent folks. Hence if the accuser should point to you, then it means the identification parade had failed.

The only difference then was that we were told what was going to happen then. But the polis have to pick people who roughly resembles the accused to ensure the victim can positively identify the correct crooks.

We were not mad or anything. Just took it as part of our civil duty then, even though we were only school boys. In fact I can still remember it was pretty exciting!!

Hope that helps explain a bit, and that you are not alone kevin23. How many people can have this kind of "experience"? We are a rare breed man!!! =)

aurora97
17-07-2006, 12:18 AM
At the other part, says if, Police confronted the correct culprit, should they inform the culprit why is (s)he demanded?





What If the person is a Suspect
If say the person is the correct culprit, police would arrest the person and detain him for investigation up to 24hrs (tahan remand another 14 days). So being informed or not is pretty much irrelevant, all you need to ask like Bar council's little red book explains, "Am I being arrested?"

What if the person is being asked to go for an ID PArade?
The police should explain briefly that it's an ID parade, basically they already have the suspects in Custody. They just need confirmation from the witness/victim that the person on the line up (parade) is the correct person. It's a Civic Duty, it's also a Moral Obligation. Conclusion, doesn't that mean i can say no to an ID parade?

mon
17-07-2006, 12:21 AM
Patrick you are cool. :)

Aurora, I was wondering too if the police can barge in and ask just about anyone to go for an ID Parade. Perhaps if Kevin23 had thought of the whole incident as just doing a good deed in helping police to identify the crooks, then it would've sounded very different. But I pointed out that the police did alas thanked Kevin and that was good.

But then again, my curiousity beats me, can the police indeed interrupt and ask just about anyone to go for an ID Parade? thanks..

aurora97
17-07-2006, 12:29 AM
Aurora, I was wondering too if the police can barge in and ask just about anyone to go for an ID Parade. Perhaps if Kevin23 had thought of the whole incident as just doing a good deed in helping police to identify the crooks, then it would've sounded very different. But I pointed out that the police did alas thanked Kevin and that was good.

But then again, my curiousity beats me, can the police indeed interrupt and ask just about anyone to go for an ID Parade? thanks..

Well my assumption is that Kevin23 didn't have the slightest clue of what he got himself into, that's my assumption, but we will need Kevin to furnish us with Extra details.

i think USJ.com.my should have some stickies in relations to Police FAQ or Q & A.

Like:
What if i get arrested?
What if i get arrested, whilst in a disco?
what if i get stopped by a plain clothes policeman? (what can he do or cannot do)
what if i get stopped by a policeman?
what is an ID parade? - what if i said "yes" or what if i said "no" ("no" will result in a night at the lock up or some physical convincing?)
and many more what if's ....

aurora97
17-07-2006, 12:39 AM
Ermm, any legal experts here need some brief explanation.

This is in relation to ID parade:
1. plain cloth police officers picking up citizens for a ID parade.
2. do they need to explain?
3. What if i said Yes?
4. what if i said No?
5. What happens in an ID parade?
6. any other relevant details...

swee_ann_tweety
17-07-2006, 12:54 AM
We were having a drink in SS15 Darulssalam.Then came these plain clothes policemen who demanded out ICs.So we handed them over.He then randomly selected a few people there,roughly ten all chinese and asked us to go to the SS17 police station.We asked him why we had to go there,he said "oh,ada datuk mau cam awak"



The police already briefly explained what his intention were i.e. "oh, ada datuk mau cam awak". So I don't really thing that they are "stupid".

But I find it strange that the police didn't explain what is going on. He only explained after you asked.

kwchang
17-07-2006, 01:56 AM
The title to this thread have been changed. Thanks are due to the concerned members of the Forum.

I agree that the Police force is there to help us. It does no one any good if you make sweeping statements about their competance.

I strongly believe that people who constatntly speak bad about the police force are also the ones who make the police the bogey man... you know, if your children are naughty, you might tell them to be quiet otherwise the police would arrest them. As for me, I make it a point to tell my kids that there is nothing to be afraid of the cops. They are law enforcement officers and we should go to them for help rather than to shun them.

Now, let's get back to the topic.

pcyeoh
17-07-2006, 02:29 AM
Patrick was fortunate that he acted as one of the 10 people participating in an identification parade. I, on the other hand, was not so fortunate as I ended up on the other side. I was a suspect as I was arrested and was asked to stand in line to make up the 11th person.

It was back in the late seventies when I was picked up from my house at 2.30 am and was formally informed that I was being arrested as a suspect for further investigation. I was taken to the Carnavon Street police station and was questioned about my role in disposing stolen goods. To cut a long story short, they arrested me just because they caught one Indian chap buying stolen goods and produced the letter of sale purportedly signed by me with all my particulars. That was when I told the police that I had lost my IC before and that could be the reason how the sales document contained my full particulars. Nevertheless, I was thrown into the lock up sharing the cell the size of a badminton court together with some 20 others all awaiting their trial with the smelliest toilet I had come across and I was 'privileged' to sleep next to it. I couldn't sleep and time really really crawled. The food was out of this world but I had my breakfast, tea and lunch courtesy of His Majesty. The next day around 3pm, I was produced before the magistrate court and fortunately, he believed my side of the story but I was subjected to undergo an identification parade. He warned me that if I failed the test he would be seeing me again. I was then released but had to report to the Police Headquarters in Penang Road the next day.

For the test, I went through exactly what Kelvin have just described. I was dressed in my best clothes and used a whole bottle of Tancho to comb my hair. In fact one policeman even commented that I looked like a bridegroom! I had to as I could not take chances. Ten people who looked roughly like me in terms of age and height and of course race were selected and picked up from the streets. One of them was a coffeeshop boy on the way delivering a tray of coffee! They were all brought in and asked to stand in line. The kind inspector then gave me the honour to stand anywhere among them though it made no difference to me. Then in came the Indian chap limping and was asked to tap on the shoulder of the person who sold him the stolen goods. All the policemen were eagerly waiting for him to tap me on my shoulder. It looked like it. You can forget about the one way mirror stuff you see in the Hollywood police story. There was no such thing in Malaysia. In fact, he came so near me that I could even smell his breath and all the time the police were encouraging him by saying "Jangan takut. Dia tak boleh buat apa apa kepada kamu." He had to do it 3 times and three times he apolgised saying the seller was not any of us before the inspector could note down the identification parade was inconclusive. After everything was over, I then asked the inspector what if that Indian chap mistakenly tapped me on my shoulder. He then replied, "Habis lah, you betul betul 'sway.' We would then produce you again to the magistrate and will this time request you to be remanded for 14 days at the end of which we would have to charge you in court for theft and illegal disposal of stolen goods or release you." Phew.... I was this close. So if the NRD said they will not hesitate to impose a fine of up to RM 20,000, trust me, it is for your own good. A year later, another Indian chap came by my house to return me the IC which he claimed he found among the bushes. I gave him RM 10 tip and thank him profusely though he didn't understand why I did that. I cut out my photo and burned the rest of the IC away. Till this day, that photo reminded me the experiences I have just gone through.

USJ27Resident
17-07-2006, 03:24 AM
. In fact, he came so near me that I could even smell his breath and all the time the police were encouraging him by saying "Jangan takut. Dia tak boleh buat apa apa kepada kamu." He had to do it 3 times and three times he apolgised saying the seller was not any of us before the inspector could note down the identification parade was inconclusive. After everything was over, I then asked the inspector what if that Indian chap mistakenly tapped me on my shoulder. He then replied, "Habis lah, you betul betul 'sway.' We would then produce you again to the magistrate and will this time request you to be remanded for 14 days at the end of which we would have to charge you in court for theft and illegal disposal of stolen goods or release you." Phew.... I was this close. .

Man.... If I was in your shoes, I'd wud have had PILES even Ho Hup Piling would be proud of... :eek: That's the thing ~ what if the indian fella had tapped PC or that shorty balding datuk mistakenly ID'ed the wrong fella... Imagine the sh!thouse that one has to go through to prove his/her innocence. The very meaning of having to prove one's innocence would mean GUILTY until PROVEN INNOCENT!

As much as I admire some of the work that the police does, I still think that if and when something like this plays out with an innocent person, the police is not gonna be the most accomodating or friendly face to be with... (can or will anyone disagree with my last line... :rolleyes: )

tupai
17-07-2006, 10:42 AM
policeman.bogeyman. When we got the wrong end of things, we will somehow put the blame on them.

(if I got beaten up by tattoed road bullies, I'd really appreciate the cops getting their hands on 10 tattoed guys for me to identify...how they got these 10 'incidental' blokes is the last thing on my mind... same probably goes to your mind. NO?)

Did we thank them when they prevent/ controlled riots, clashes (esp the racial kind???) make this country as peaceably as it can possible? Do we like, the master-of-universe-USA, have what 13murders in what? 14days??

We can only be 'afraid' of being arrested (or for most wrongly detained) if we have done wrong...from unsettled traffic summons to popping pills in disco to buying unusually cheap goods and the list is endless.

I always advise my buddies (esp the tattooed ones :p ) to have a few lawyers amgt their list of contacts...it also help to have the men-in-blue as your friends. And this can happen if I only were to get involve and contribute my physical efforts in building relationship with the pdrm there. Do not underestimate the results...
Good cause=Good results.

charis14
17-07-2006, 01:01 PM
...i think USJ.com.my should have some stickies in relations to Police FAQ or Q & A.
Like:
What if i get arrested?
What if i get arrested, whilst in a disco?
what if i get stopped by a plain clothes policeman? (what can he do or cannot do)
what if i get stopped by a policeman?
what is an ID parade? - what if i said "yes" or what if i said "no" ("no" will result in a night at the lock up or some physical convincing?)
and many more what if's ....
Perhaps the dialogue with the Subang Jaya Police this Sunday may be a good place to seek the answers. To avoid being seen as bashing and to allow proper answers, it may be good to forward these questions to them for their preparation.

aurora97
17-07-2006, 02:35 PM
I would like to stress and de-classify my thoughts contained in my brain so as to clarify my position regarding Identification Parade at the same time setting the record straight before anyone jumps the gun and calling me a cop basher.

1. First of all, I am not bashing the police. I am mere making an enquiry in relations to ID Parade or what is an ID Parade?Refer to posting #6, later posting #7 reply by Mon, than posting #11 My responce, refer posting #15 my posting, and finally posting #16 by Mon in reply.

2. I've asked question in relation's to Kevin23's grievances:
quote from Kevin23"Just wanna knowlah,do the police have the right to interrupt us and direct us to go to the police station?"

3. If kevin23 could answer this question affirmatively it would help alot.

a. Kevin23 do you know what's an ID parade?
b. Kevin23 did you know that you were being picked up to assist in an ID parade?
c. What did you feel (threatened, intimidated, fear, etc...) when the police refused to return your IC, and asked you to follow him to the police station instead.
d. Where you reluctant when you answered "YES" to accompany the plain clothes policeman to the police station, or at the time you had no probem in answering "NO".

4. Postings #18 was originally from "Legally Speaking" section but was move by Administrator/moderator to this posting.

5. I assumed there are some legal experts in the forum who can take sometime an explain:
a. What is an ID Parade?
b. And what happens when you say "NO" to an ID parade?

6. I did some digging, the Criminal procedure code is silent in matters in relations to ID parade. Whilst the Evidence Act mention bits an pieces all over the place, it only tells the police how to conduct an Id parade. It doesn't mention how citizens are randomly choosen, or whether consent is necessary before being picked up.

CS Chua
17-07-2006, 04:37 PM
By and large, all of us can agree that such parades are necessary and we as citizens should participate to help our police. However it is the way the police does it that raises our ire.

Like Kevin23, I was once ordered into the police station for the same purpose. No friendly "Excuse me" or "Can you help us?" approaches. Just an arrogant and sternly command like I was a criminal or a school boy. And they wonder why we do not like them.

USJ27Resident
18-07-2006, 01:13 AM
Perhaps the dialogue with the Subang Jaya Police this Sunday may be a good place to seek the answers. To avoid being seen as bashing and to allow proper answers, it may be good to forward these questions to them for their preparation.

Sokong...

It is not the PDRM per se that we have our misguided perceptions but tell me how many of us would think what a cop is doing when he pulls a motorist over... writing a summons or :rolleyes:. Don't blame us for this kind of thinking when the manner some of the police themselves behave, sometimes don't help in their own Public Relations image.

I just hope that in the long run ~ the police officers and their men stationed here would realise that we need to "take care" of each other for a better and cordial long term relationship.

kevin23
18-07-2006, 11:59 AM
I would like to stress and de-classify my thoughts contained in my brain so as to clarify my position regarding Identification Parade at the same time setting the record straight before anyone jumps the gun and calling me a cop basher.

1. First of all, I am not bashing the police. I am mere making an enquiry in relations to ID Parade or what is an ID Parade?Refer to posting #6, later posting #7 reply by Mon, than posting #11 My responce, refer posting #15 my posting, and finally posting #16 by Mon in reply.

2. I've asked question in relation's to Kevin23's grievances:
quote from Kevin23"Just wanna knowlah,do the police have the right to interrupt us and direct us to go to the police station?"

3. If kevin23 could answer this question affirmatively it would help alot.

a. Kevin23 do you know what's an ID parade?
b. Kevin23 did you know that you were being picked up to assist in an ID parade?
c. What did you feel (threatened, intimidated, fear, etc...) when the police refused to return your IC, and asked you to follow him to the police station instead.
d. Where you reluctant when you answered "YES" to accompany the plain clothes policeman to the police station, or at the time you had no probem in answering "NO".

4. Postings #18 was originally from "Legally Speaking" section but was move by Administrator/moderator to this posting.

5. I assumed there are some legal experts in the forum who can take sometime an explain:
a. What is an ID Parade?
b. And what happens when you say "NO" to an ID parade?

6. I did some digging, the Criminal procedure code is silent in matters in relations to ID parade. Whilst the Evidence Act mention bits an pieces all over the place, it only tells the police how to conduct an Id parade. It doesn't mention how citizens are randomly choosen, or whether consent is necessary before being picked up.

Ok,since you wanted some answers,here it is.
a)Yes,i hell know what an ID parade is!

b)I didnt know that i was being picked for an ID parade before i asked him.And even after i asked his answer was very vague meaning he just said something bout someone mau cam awak.

c)Yes,of course i had a bit of fear as he demanded i go to the police station.

d)Of course i was reluctant to follow them.I wasnt going to follow anyone just because he had my IC.On the other hand,I couldnt have answered "NO" as he was having my IC.

Gunnerz
18-07-2006, 02:16 PM
Another interesting point is if you are in the other man's shoes. I mean the person who is suppose to identify during the parade. You are not behind any screen or one way mirror but face to face with the potential criminal. If I suffer a crime like assault or for the ladies any rape case, I would be scared ****-less if I have to face the criminal face to face again.

Maybe it is time for the police to change that aspect. But in a lighter note, I feel our police force are getting better but still much more room for improvements.

sinleong
20-07-2006, 02:28 AM
the police and only the police have the right to detain your IC

jc86
20-07-2006, 05:30 AM
policeman.bogeyman. When we got the wrong end of things, we will somehow put the blame on them.

(if I got beaten up by tattoed road bullies, I'd really appreciate the cops getting their hands on 10 tattoed guys for me to identify...how they got these 10 'incidental' blokes is the last thing on my mind... same probably goes to your mind. NO?)

Did we thank them when they prevent/ controlled riots, clashes (esp the racial kind???) make this country as peaceably as it can possible? Do we like, the master-of-universe-USA, have what 13murders in what? 14days??

.


Err. .. and do we ever thank USA for their contributions to world technology , food science n their countless health researches ?


From what kevin said .. i guess the policemen who took him was sort of err .. unprofessional ? 'ada datuk mau cam awak' ... that;s a little like how some gangsters say 'my taiko wans 2 see u' ...

I have respected policemen, firefighters and all the other men in uniform all my life .. and i do believe like someone said earlier, we shouldnt bash the force for the acts of a few of them .. HOwever, sometimes i'm just baffled with the system ..

I dun have much experience with policemen .. but i had a recent one a few weeks ago when my aunty was robbed of her handbag .. She's married to an englishman therefore been staying in london for the past 2 decades or so .. Her BM is sort of rusty ... The cop in charge at the counter at that moment was rather young and he had a tough time taking down my aunty's report coz he is ermm not-so-good in English .. in fact, he could barely speak a proper sentence .. just words like .. Man? CHinese? Malay ? I ended up as the translator .. But he would only call me to translate when ther are major issues .. i guess coz he wants to hear most of the things from my aunty, the victim and not a 3rd party

To cut this short .. i noticed the entire report he wrote for my aunty was a really really short summary of what my aunty had to say .. she had to go n meet the Investigation Officer to talk about things in more detail .. but he doesn;t speak much english too and once again this communication issue pretty much leaves little hope of the snatch thieves being nabbed by our coppers...

BUt don't get me wrong ... I always look at the bright side of things too .. I have to commend the police at the counter for his good attitude and he was pretty patient too .. Another guy in his shoes might just adopt the apa-apa sajalar attitude .. This guy is really friendly ..
Though i can't help but wonder .. what if a tourist from say, south korea or spain needs to make a report ???

Soree for straying from the title ...