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rabbiteeth84
03-03-2006, 03:36 PM
i really dislike those lecturer who marks according to the names. wat i mean is if thats her/his favourite student, everything is consider a point and be given marks. while for those whos not so apple of the eye, considerably lower marks.

burntan
03-03-2006, 03:44 PM
i really dislike those lecturer who marks according to the names. wat i mean is if thats her/his favourite student, everything is consider a point and be given marks. while for those whos not so apple of the eye, considerably lower marks.

If you have evidence on your complaint, report it to the kolej admin.

Diana
03-03-2006, 09:16 PM
If you have evidence on your complaint, report it to the kolej admin.

Ditto what he said. H'ever just have to point out that some very defensive students feel like they are being shortchanged when they really don't deserve to pass in the first place. I've passed the point where I used to think lecturers/teachers were simply out to get you until a relative of mine became a lecturer and then I saw both sides of the coin. She would tell me abt students who couldnt phrase a proper, grammatical sentence in English much less provide a coherent answer, and yet they gave her attitude and complained to admin when she didnt give them high marks. Of course the moment of truth came when the actual exam results, marked by foreign universities came back and those same students failed miserably.

That said, if you still feel this lecturer is biased- then get the supporting evidence and complain. You're paying them so you have a right.

jimbeam
03-03-2006, 09:24 PM
wait till you get to the working world

kwchang
03-03-2006, 11:13 PM
Just a side line here on the same topic....

This reminds me of the time when one of our classmates wrote all of her class assignments in purple ink. Hence the lecturer knew who used purple ink. She was obviously getting the lecturer's attention because during the exams, she wrote her answers with the same pen - thus by-passing the system which anonymises the student. The lecturer knew who the student was, by the colour of the ink. Pretty devious ... that is if the lecturer favours her.

Timo
04-03-2006, 12:43 AM
Purple ink? How resourceful of her. If only the person in question had channelled that resourcefulness into something more productive she wouldn't have had to resort to that trick.

Anyway, I am going to agree with Diana here; if the lecturer is biased, report the lecturer in question, however, the more likely explanation is that the student who feels that (s)he is being biased against is just a crap student. Lecturers mark many assignments - they know who deserves what. Besides, for most assignments, its pretty hard to get away with being biased, since everything is in writing. It's an unnecessary risk on the lecturers part.

shali
04-03-2006, 10:26 PM
Jshe wrote her answers with the same pen - thus by-passing the system which anonymises the student. The lecturer knew who the student was, by the colour of the ink.

Pinching the top right corner of the paper will similarly do the trick :eek:

jessi24
04-03-2006, 11:35 PM
Just my two cents rabbiteeth,

I don't know you as a person or even your lecturer so I can't really say much. But from what you have said, you are not much better than your lecturer. You are jealous of others which are obtaining higher marks. Have you really read through their papars thus coming up with answers like your lecturer is biased. Aren't you being biased yourself that you are saying your work is better than others?

Instead of wasting time going around 'discussing' this with other students, isn't it better to take your paper/assignment and make an appointment with the lecturer after class to see where you could have done better? I believe no lecturer will say no if a student is proactive enough to ask for guidance to do better.

rabbiteeth84
05-03-2006, 11:53 AM
"But from what you have said, you are not much better than your lecturer. You are jealous of others which are obtaining higher marks. Have you really read through their papars thus coming up with answers like your lecturer is biased. Aren't you being biased yourself that you are saying your work is better than others?" -Jessi 24

i am not a person whos very particular of the marks givin, as i dun believe in a person works can be accredited by marks. i dun ever jealous who other people getting high marks as i believe that person must have also working like a bull to getting the marks.

but i simply dun deny the fact that there sre some lecturers who marks regard of favourite students accordingly. like someone above imply, possibly a crap student will thinks that a lecturer is biased,maybe i am, and as it says, the lecturer will know wat i deserve, is this based on the work i given,or based on the overall marks i had scored so far?

this is my point. wat i wanna say is when a student is doing well all along, even thou the answers are wrong, the lecturer will still giving marks becoz that particular student tried. as for those sudent who din do well before, the elcturer will reckon that it is her standards, no marks will be givin. i dun think is fair.

i never mentioned anything about my work is better than others. NEVER. but i DID compared my work with the others.

people always telling me they dun deserve the fair treatment, i dun believe in it until i had one myself. u seee, low achiver, regardless in the school or society, they have less chance to voice out their opinion, their right, becoz NOBODY CARES. nobody wanna listen to them, nobody thinks their opinion is worth attend to. i do believe there some crap student around, and i also do believe there some fantastic lecturer around, all of you been a student before, tell me how is it to feel dejected after inquiring about your work, all the lecturer say is this is your standard, and i am generous bout the marks.thats it. hmmmm

Timo
05-03-2006, 12:17 PM
I am not making judgments about which students are 'good' and which are 'bad'. All I am saying is, which is more probable? A lecturer with a mean streak who goes through all the effort to pick out your name, look at your history of results, then marks slightly lower than you deserve (but not too much, incase someone notices), while bearing in mind that you will pester him about your low marks, and even risking his career as everything is in writing, OR, the assignment doesn't deserve good marks?

As a student, how do you know what marks you deserve?

If a lecturer told me "That's your standard, I was already generous with your marks", you know what I would do? Next assignment comes around, I will show him/her what I am capable of. I will hand up the best assignment (s)he has ever seen. That is, I will take control of my own marks - none of this victim "oh no one cares about me" mentality.

alexhay
05-03-2006, 12:55 PM
rabbiteeth84 :- I was in your shoe before. I particular argued with the lecturer on certain words that I don't think is right. Even when come to marking, I feel that I had did my best but they gave me a low mark. What can you do ? You can't do anything at all. What if you get A+++ in your assignment and that does not even prove that you are good.

Now what you can do is that you prove yourself in the next assignment. Do it without any grudges. Do it with all your heart.

And tell you something, what you study now, 80% of it does not apply when you come out to work...

Like me, I am a studied computer science during college but now I am in the technical line...

In college, who will teach you about servers, how they works, what to do when it down ...

My final advice..just dont bother what ppl say or what, at the end of the day, is your experience that counts...;)

mon
05-03-2006, 01:24 PM
If a lecturer told me "That's your standard, I was already generous with your marks", you know what I would do? Next assignment comes around, I will show him/her what I am capable of. I will hand up the best assignment (s)he has ever seen. That is, I will take control of my own marks - none of this victim "oh no one cares about me" mentality.

I would've done the same thing.

Rabbitteeth, you said you compared your work with the other students but how could you possibly know how each individual work is assessed? Sometimes, to my understanding, the actual answers are not assessed, but rather the effort and extra work put in..in this sense a correct answer without explanation would be seen as worse than a wrong answer in which the student had made an effort to explore the concepts involved..either as suggested by the lecturer or on the students' own initiative. Get what I mean?

Diana
05-03-2006, 02:38 PM
I would've done the same thing.

Rabbitteeth, you said you compared your work with the other students but how could you possibly know how each individual work is assessed? Sometimes, to my understanding, the actual answers are not assessed, but rather the effort and extra work put in..in this sense a correct answer without explanation would be seen as worse than a wrong answer in which the student had made an effort to explore the concepts involved..either as suggested by the lecturer or on the students' own initiative. Get what I mean?

I am currently a law student and I know what you are saying. With us it isnt based on how much u remember or good you are at regurgitating facts. Its about how well you think outside of the box. I compare marks too and this is what I've seen. I had a grand total of 2 cases cited in my answer sheet. My friend had almost 10 cases. In terms of facts, he had all there was to put in. I got a B and he got a C. Why? Because I knew what the examiner was looking for- independant thought and discussion- not robotic 'vomiting' of memorised answers. My friend was obviously discouraged and I felt very bad for him. But my other friends told me not to. They said he deserved it because he wasnt using his grey matter. He was simply memorising and blatantly plaguerising lecture notes and textbooks.

My examiners are British so if they can't read ur handwriting or ur english is bad, they'll fail u straight away as they cudnt b bothered to decipher what u mean.

Its not always about how much info you have but rather about the way you think and critically analyse. Some1 said earlier that you won't use what you learn. To an extent it is true- but what u learn shapes the way in which you think. Don't look at it as memorising facts and specific details just to pass an exam. Use it as a way of harnessing intellect. The reason graduates are not getting jobs today is because they dun wanna think outside the box. Yes it isnt about As n Bs but thats the beauty of some programmes, they award those A's not because of how much u memorised and spilled but how much you make use of what you know.

rabbitteeth ask ur lecturer what she/he's looking for and work at it. It may surprise u that they do not judge u on the facts alone but on presentation, manner of thought and even grammar. Unless of course ur doing something mathematical or accounting.. :) If my lecturer told me that was the mark i deserved, I'd ask her where i went wrong and how i can fix it.

Jose Mourinho
05-03-2006, 03:07 PM
I am not making judgments about which students are 'good' and which are 'bad'. All I am saying is, which is more probable? A lecturer with a mean streak who goes through all the effort to pick out your name, look at your history of results, then marks slightly lower than you deserve (but not too much, incase someone notices), while bearing in mind that you will pester him about your low marks, and even risking his career as everything is in writing, OR, the assignment doesn't deserve good marks?

There are lecturers who are biased and it may just be possible that Rabbiteeth is an unfortunate victim. Did anybody consider that?

:)

Diana
05-03-2006, 03:14 PM
There are lecturers who are biased and it may just be possible that Rabbiteeth is an unfortunate victim. Did anybody consider that?

:)

yes, i did. My first post advised her to find evidence and report. :)

Jose Mourinho
05-03-2006, 03:20 PM
So you did, Diana. You are a fair person. We do get people who tend to shout down poor Rabbiteeth.

rabbiteeth84
05-03-2006, 04:59 PM
thanks jose and all the ppls.

i will do all u guys suggest me to do, and i tell you, i will do even more best in my upcoming exam and lab, also my assigments, and this time take up the effort of letting her review first before i pass up.

but i will always be sad over tis kind of unfair treatment that i get from those lecturers. is not that i never try, i did tried. my frends says that he/she mean gd, thats why she is giving u tis marks. well, okay, i appreciate it. then when i go and ask him/her, all she did is joking arounf with my friends instead of giving my assigments a once over, telling me where i did wrong.

u see, sometimes i got the whole point there with the key words, but juz a word(not key word) wrong, my lec immediately mark it wrong. i mean, u are supposed to depress me or wat? or asking me to achive better. i really dun know.

btw, my class is small thou, only 5 ppl per class. tats why the lec can immediately recognise students writing. btw, all my frends commented that i am not supposed to think outside the box, juz finish the exam/assigments according to wat she wan. in that way i get more marks. hmmm, i supposed i will try that now

patrick
05-03-2006, 05:17 PM
I am currently a law student and I know what you are saying. With us it isnt based on how much u remember or good you are at regurgitating facts. Its about how well you think outside of the box. I compare marks too and this is what I've seen. I had a grand total of 2 cases cited in my answer sheet. My friend had almost 10 cases. In terms of facts, he had all there was to put in. I got a B and he got a C. Why? Because I knew what the examiner was looking for- independant thought and discussion- not robotic 'vomiting' of memorised answers. My friend was obviously discouraged and I felt very bad for him. But my other friends told me not to. They said he deserved it because he wasnt using his grey matter. He was simply memorising and blatantly plaguerising lecture notes and textbooks.

My examiners are British so if they can't read ur handwriting or ur english is bad, they'll fail u straight away as they cudnt b bothered to decipher what u mean.....


Well explained Diana. I was lecturing and marking a certain subject and I had students enquiring why they received less marks though they had written more than others. And there were those why enquired why they didnt get full marks despite getting the correct answers! One cannot expect to get more marks just naming the destination one has arrived at than another who has explained and described the journey therein! Just a little reinforcement to Diana's apt contention.

Jose Mourinho
05-03-2006, 05:43 PM
I view and mark papers differently. I always give high marks because I do not believe that students are stupid, lazy or indifferent. I always believe that students try their best and they should be rewarded for their efforts and preserverance.

aurora97
05-03-2006, 06:05 PM
When judgement day comes Rabbit i am sure you'd be the last man/woman standing, no matter how bias or prejudiced the mind of the lecturer is in the end the skeletons will be reviewed.

I still remember during my college days, a batch earlier only had 2 markers (one internal-college and external- foreign university). the marking was so lenient and the desire of the (internal) lecturer to mark up favourites, soon was squashed by an instant remarking ordered by external markers. Cause quite a stir and scandal since they were already offered places in foreign universities.

My batch got the worse blow of all, we had 4 markers after that. 2 external markers from 2 partner university, and 1 more external marker came to Malaysia to observe us during exam.

Well i got through anyway :p

Jose Mourinho
05-03-2006, 06:10 PM
I still remember during my college days, a batch earlier only had 2 markers (one internal-college and external- foreign university). the marking was so lenient and the desire of the (internal) lecturer to mark up favourites, soon was squashed by an instant remarking ordered by external markers. Cause quite a stir and scandal since they were already offered places in foreign universities.

Local markers tend to be much stricter and usually 2nd markers would up the marks and the external moderators (of which I have been one) would agree with the marks of the university markers.

Jose Mourinho
05-03-2006, 06:14 PM
My batch got the worse blow of all, we had 4 markers after that. 2 external markers from 2 partner university, and 1 more external marker came to Malaysia to observe us during exam.

This sort of fiasco happens as often as you get eclipses of the sun. This sort of fiasco happens when universities already have proof that their local partners are trying to do something dishonest and the universities are terrified that their names and reputations would be dragged through the mud.

aurora97
05-03-2006, 06:20 PM
On the contrary for the subject i am taking, Internal markers mark more lenietly than external markers. Whilst external markers were more strict because they saw certain students either do not qualify to obtain that mark or were mark too leniently. This is indeed possibly a one off scenario, but what happens inside the administrative realms of a college no one knows.

rabbiteeth84
05-03-2006, 07:45 PM
theres this one particular lecturer that i like the most. in his exam, is all subjective questions. he mentioned that in tis world, there is no wrong or right, just what is most appropriate. maybe sth that we learn today will be regard as ridiculous tomorow. so what he wants is the knowledge that we had learn, and how we define in our work. he dun have any marking schemes, everything is in his head. he is open to opinion.

i respect him. i mean this should be the case rite. the educator view on study. compared to him, i since had meet a lot of lecturers who is just not open to opinion. they have the test book to tell them wat they think, and also the students. i am not saying is wrong, maybe at the beginning there should be some guildlines along to help, but sooner or later i jsut think you should develop your own point of views.

i mean really, my cousin is a lecturer for 20 years, and she is telling me something. when she is young, she really prefer those A students. she prefers to answer their questions over those average student, but as times goes on, she find out that those students who she ignore in the class will first acknowledge her in the street, while those A student had already forget her.

johnmichael
06-03-2006, 09:35 AM
rabbiteeth, i truly sympathize with u. this is a lesson that most of us learn the hard way.. being stuck in an institution run by incompetent instructors.
ur first mistake was.. u didn't check out the college properly.. u should have asked around to verify the credibility of the instructors there. good colleges don't believe in giving out bad grades.. their policy is.. they are good, therefore, they can teach well. bad grades result from bad instructors, who usually has a very short stint there.
second mistake.. u must have offended the instructor, knowingly or not. once, long long ago, i asked my professor, who initially appeared very open-minded, about a very sensitive topic. we were talking about religion, and i just blurted out.. "can i convert to practice Judaism?". to me, it was innocent enough, as theology was my "hobby". however, that question changed everything.. from then on, everything i did was wrong.
third mistake.. maybe u showed that u were smarter than ur instructor! that is the worst mistake any student can make.. its... downhill ALL THE WAY

complaining to the administration is a bad idea.. it usually result in the other instructors labelling u as a trouble-maker. the last thing u need is for the whole staff to be against u.

if things do not improve, try transferring credit to another college.

this may console u.. if u think ur being victimized, note that u must have some qualities that make u worth the effort to the perpetuators of the crime.

Diana
06-03-2006, 09:57 AM
good colleges don't believe in giving out bad grades.. their policy is.. they are good, therefore, they can teach well. bad grades result from bad instructors, who usually has a very short stint there.

complaining to the administration is a bad idea.. it usually result in the other instructors labelling u as a trouble-maker. the last thing u need is for the whole staff to be against u.


I am sorry I have to disagree there. Not referring to Rabbiteeth's situation, but in general I wouldnt want to attend an institution that passed everybody.I take it as compromising standards just to make a name and money. "Good colleges" will teach u at all costs. They will make the effort but they are not Gods in the end and hopeless cases do exist. Good lecturers don't in turn make good students. Like I said, NOT referring to Rabbitteeth, some students really don't deserve to pass and it would be a great folly to blame the instuctors/lecturers for their (d students) incapabilities or sheer laziness. There are exceptions to everything but to generalise all bad grades as coming from bad lecturers isnt fair. I think its the "blame some1 else" mentality, where if we fail, its not our fault but someone elses.

On your second point, I did complain b4 when I felt I was treated unfairly by a lecturer. Yes, some lecturers branded me a troublemaker but the imporatnt thing was tht the offending lecturer I complained against was reprimanded and left the college soon after. So to me, having a few unhappy looks in a corridor was worth the rewards.

By your post, I can only guess that perhaps you had bad experiences in college. I've had them too. I've had lecturers flame me for absolutely nothing at all with obscenities. Things haven't been rosy for me but as I said in an earlier post, there's always 2 sides. I try to look at the reasons and if there is none, then just continue studying and proving myself. Makes me the better person in the end. ;)

Jose Mourinho
06-03-2006, 10:40 AM
u didn't check out the college properly.. u should have asked around to verify the credibility of the instructors there. good colleges don't believe in giving out bad grades.. their policy is.. they are good, therefore, they can teach well. bad grades result from bad instructors, who usually has a very short stint there.

I agree. That was exactly what I was talking about when I said in my earlier post: "I view and mark papers differently. I always give high marks because I do not believe that students are stupid, lazy or indifferent. I always believe that students try their best and they should be rewarded for their efforts and preserverance". A few people here thought that I was being flippant or outrageously lenient and that I have simply marked papers and gave good grades. By virtue of the standards set - in its student selection criteria, a sound academic programme and well qualified and conscientious lecturers - a college or university should not even have failures (admittedly a few do slipped through the selection process), and especially so in course work such as assignments because such work is within the control of the lecturer and student (working together).

Jose Mourinho
06-03-2006, 10:52 AM
I've had lecturers flame me for absolutely nothing at all with obscenities. Things haven't been rosy for me but as I said in an earlier post, there's always 2 sides. I try to look at the reasons and if there is none, then just continue studying and proving myself. Makes me the better person in the end. ;)

Well done, Diana. You are a strong person but there are many students who may not have your mental strength to last through the realm of a biased lecturer. And believe me, there are many. Why? Because we are all humans with our personal (and sometimes irrational) likes and dislikes and very few of us can rise above that base human nature.

rabbiteeth84
06-03-2006, 07:44 PM
hei jose,

sice you are an educator, tell me , which kind of students that you feel at ease to talk to? a student who is smart but din excel like the top student or the top student themself?

Jose Mourinho
06-03-2006, 08:24 PM
I am sorry I cannot help you. For that you have to ask AllUrban because he has professed in two threads that he is a great teacher and motivator and he knows all about independent thinking. Me? I am just an old man who believes in exams.

:)

Jose Mourinho
06-03-2006, 09:04 PM
hei jose, sice you are an educator, tell me , which kind of students that you feel at ease to talk to? a student who is smart but din excel like the top student or the top student themself?

Rabbiteeth. Actually there is no difference. It all depends on the how well the lecturer communicates and how sincere he/she is. A student tends to know and spot a fake from a genuine one. A student normally knows what to do and all he/she needs is just reinforcement only and thus a lecturer who likes to get his/her own views across are unlikely to really and actually help the student. I hope that helps.

:)

rabbiteeth84
07-03-2006, 07:54 PM
thank you sir