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Rocky19
17-01-2006, 10:00 AM
Well people watch out. Here is another snoop team on the loose in KL. They have licence to roam.

what will be next? Or which state will be next? :( :o

Snoop team (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Tuesday/National/20060117084604/Article/index_html)

Hope this team will also look out for snatch thieves but then their eyes will be on couples only....Malaysia boleh!!!

mon
17-01-2006, 10:07 AM
My apologies first I'm real blur. But can someone tell me if holding hands in public like say in a shopping complex, in a cinema, or just taking a stroll at the crocodile farm amidst many other ppl let's say at 6-7pm..put someone at risk of being scooped up for questioning or to the balai?? Err..any race specifically?

fedup
17-01-2006, 10:27 AM
it is just a license for peeping toms to act legally. What do you expect from bolehland. Long live malaysia boleh. long live ketuanan melayu

shali
17-01-2006, 10:47 AM
Singapore's strategic direction to lure international commerce and big money - as declared by them - was precise - to stay away from this sort of moral policing madness, by any other name.

That had worked like magic for Singapore. And A FEW states in MaLAYSIA took the opposite path. Not Malaysia, but a few states. But then Singapore has just ONE state. Entah la.

yankeat
17-01-2006, 10:58 AM
hrm... so i assume that husband & wifes talking a stroll around the park or shopping complex would need to bring their marriage certificate along, just to prove they are legally allowed to hold hands.

shali
17-01-2006, 11:15 AM
What pissed me off is that even Iran, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, UAE don't go this far.

Jose Mourinho
17-01-2006, 12:00 PM
Would somebody please answer a simple question for me. I am a non-Muslim. Can I sit on a bench in a shopping complex or a public park with my wife or girlfriend or any other woman with an arm around her without being harrassed by the authorities? Thank you.

JackRyan1975
17-01-2006, 12:05 PM
What's the point of a snoop team when it can't even swoop in on the "billionaire" who holds a fake marriage certificate (and technically cohabiting with a female Muslim).

idolfan
17-01-2006, 12:09 PM
Go ahead lah..... dun worry about it too much., as long as you are not cheating on your wife you need not be too worried .

shali
17-01-2006, 12:15 PM
Would somebody please answer a simple question for me. I am a non-Muslim. Can I sit on a bench in a shopping complex or a public park with my wife or girlfriend or any other woman with an arm around her without being harrassed by the authorities? Thank you.

Answer:
Of course you can.

But under the present circumstances - whether both of you can do that with a total peace of mind - that's the tricky bit. :rolleyes:

USJ27Resident
17-01-2006, 02:08 PM
Exerpt from NST: Jawi director Che Mat Che Ali said although these personnel would not be empowered to take action on their own, they would be quick to alert Jawi’s official enforcement officers.....
He handed over a blue vest and white baseball cap to each volunteer as the uniform they must wear while on duty.

He forgot the bloody freaking BASEBALL BAT ! :mad:

Nonsense!! Bloody waste of time, effort and money.... Since when is affection tantamounts to indencency.... No wonder people are turning into animals and picking defenceless females and raping and killing them...(like in Sg.Petani incident!) :mad:

Jose Mourinho
17-01-2006, 02:16 PM
This is authorised voyeurism. Soon there will be bands of sickos all over the country peeping on people.

shali
17-01-2006, 02:24 PM
I don't know if this angle has been looked into. Interesting but tricky. One senior judge in the Court of Appeal today was reported to have said " ..this issue must be brought out because it also involves taxpayers' money".

I think the activities of Islamic religious authorities are funded by the authority of Parliament. Taxpayers money again, of course include huge tax money emanating from non-muslims.

Therefore the whole admnistration of such bodies, including what appears to be 'their legitimate' activity' (esp snooping on ALL) must survive the associated philosophical test associated with such reasoning.

JackRyan1975
17-01-2006, 02:29 PM
We've heard of bogus policemen...what next...bogus snoopers in blue and white? I shudder at the thought that these "guardians of morality" may succumb to their job hazard with their band of brothers and start a new wave of terror.

Rocky19
17-01-2006, 03:14 PM
What pissed me off is that even Iran, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, UAE don't go this far.
This houlier than thou syndrome and in their mind we are a Islamic state...BTW Taliban practise worse than this but guess our JAWI guys are slowly going there. Muslim or not, you will be harrassed as they will want to look at your ID etc, more so you if look like one in the case of my friend usj27 who will be walking around with a baseball bat...walking tall.

and I agree this will bring lots more abuse and sure a good excuse to get some side income. yes it has happen before and it will surely happen again. This is after all Malaysia boleh, it is not anti-rasuah but like one forumer say, nanti rasuah. and yes there will be copy cats, who will use this to rob and rape etc. All this will most likely happen due to JAWI. :mad:

Where is this country heading??? Family law that is against women and being pushed thru even if flawed.Our PM says in Bangkok post he wants the MPs to critcise...but they have to vote for a flawed law regardless of what they say or feel. Cabinet says no peeping squads, but here is one being set up.Our cabinet might as well take a hike as even JAWI is not afraid of cabinet rulings.Maybe they think Pak Lah is sleeping during meetings? Does he?

sirgalahad2010
17-01-2006, 03:44 PM
Don't worry, lah. JAWI is trying to push the envelope - in stealth mode, so to speak, to see if they can get away with it.

But they will back down when confronted by an angry citizenry. All it will take is for one non-Muslim or gweilo to be arrested by this "snoop squad" for the s**t to hit the ceiling!

Pak Lah surely can't be amused by all these little "Napoleons" intent on pursuing their own little agendas of creeping u-know-what. Its precisely stuff like this that will cause foreign fund managers and investors to put up their antennae and go on alert.

But, of course, all those little "Napoleons" can't be bothered about such stuff. They wouldn't care if the country goes downhill to oblivion. So, too, did the Taliban....... :mad:

isarahim
17-01-2006, 04:00 PM
We've heard of bogus policemen...what next...bogus snoopers in blue and white?

Being a snooper is not very far from being a voyeur. You gotta be sick somewhere to take such a job....

AllUrban
17-01-2006, 04:02 PM
Don't worry, lah. JAWI is trying to push the envelope - in stealth mode, so to speak, to see if they can get away with it.

But they will back down when confronted by an angry citizenry. All it will take is for one non-Muslim or gweilo to be arrested by this "snoop squad" for the s**t to hit the ceiling!

It just might be me who causes the trouble...

Hmmm....m is muslim and mat salleh...will he be excused from harassment just because of the colour of his skin...isnt that racism? Or racial discrimination at least?

M admits that he is violating certain laws, but he isnt trying to hurt anyone and he does respect Malaysian culture which does not approve of public displays of affection. He also feels that he is mature enough to make up his own mind and does not care to have the state peeking over his shoulder....

One of the ironic and sadder things about Malaysian islamic laws is that:

1) Malaysians in many cases dont obey them
2) What are other muslims (non-malays) supposed to do? Do we have to obey those religious laws

Well, either way, this just sounds like an excuse to harass people...amazing, a government that not only licenses harassment, they issue vests and baseball caps.

isarahim
17-01-2006, 04:17 PM
One of the ironic and sadder things about Malaysian islamic laws is that: 1) Malaysians in many cases dont obey them
I don't find that sad at all. Instead, it's a sign of societal health that people don't follow them. Because they have been made preposterous.


2) What are other muslims (non-malays) supposed to do? Do we have to obey those religious laws
Many Arabs move to, get PR, and/or stay long time in Malaysia because they appreciate being able to go and have a drink. We'd lose a lot of tourist income if they went to Phuket instead...

BTK
17-01-2006, 04:21 PM
Hope they(the authorities) remember to bring a camera-phone along(for personal use), so when they caught someone in some indecent act, of course which is illegal.....and somehow the pictures/video caught on the camera-phonesomehow will find its way to the public, then the authorities will be in deep s**t too.

Then we have another new chapter.... :D

chin_wan
17-01-2006, 04:45 PM
Let's give them a chance la. Let's not get all judgemental, aight? ;)

Teeque
17-01-2006, 06:45 PM
Since this involves taxpayers money, has this gone thru the Cabinet and debated in Parliament? Or are Jawi and the islamic morality squads not accountable to Parliament because they hv their own jurisdiction? If that is so, then they shld not involve taxpayers money at all and seek their own funding...

kaym
17-01-2006, 07:05 PM
What pissed me off is that even Iran, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, UAE don't go this far.

How sure are you with this statement of yours? Being married to an Iranian, I have lived in Iran for awhile.....and there is no way that a young couple can go dating in the mall, or garden without any relative companion.

And btw, people.......if this is Jawi Snoop team as you call...their mandate is only for Malaysian Muslims, not Malaysians of different religion. Even if my hubby is to carry a bottle of vodka at Langkawi airport, he won't be arrested because he is not a Malaysian citizen, though Muslim.

USJ27Resident
17-01-2006, 08:47 PM
And btw, people.......if this is Jawi Snoop team as you call...their mandate is only for Malaysian Muslims, not Malaysians of different religion. Even if my hubby is to carry a bottle of vodka at Langkawi airport, he won't be arrested because he is not a Malaysian citizen, though Muslim.

Errrr... how quickly we forget... remember the malaysian chinese couple that was "summoned" for "behaving" in an indecent behaviour in KLCC park.... yada-yada... so don't tell me that this mandate is only for malaysian moslems... come to think of it - a moslem is a moslem, no matter what nationality....

Come on... sooner or later - the authorities will also say that their rules also apply as law of the land... shafted down our throats like the "flawed family law" :rolleyes:

Rocky19
17-01-2006, 10:26 PM
And btw, people.......if this is Jawi Snoop team as you call...their mandate is only for Malaysian Muslims, not Malaysians of different religion. Even if my hubby is to carry a bottle of vodka at Langkawi airport, he won't be arrested because he is not a Malaysian citizen, though Muslim.
How sure are you that they won't stop all couples. How do they know that a malay looking man with a chinese girl is actually not a malay man.Or malay looking girl is actually an indian chinese mix??? How? Malaysia is not a homogenous society like Japan or Iran(90+% muslims).They will stop and enquire.How will they stop and enquire?and they are not even the police, so can they stop and ask you for your ID? even police have issues with procedures, and what training have this people gone thru?

Just a licence to roam which is dangerous. and this wrong couple has happened before as people like to impose on to others . as for rules for foreigners, i just hope you have registered your marriage here, otherwise they will come after those locals muslims married to foreigners.

This whole things is eating away at our rights and freedom of all Malaysians.period.

BTW carrying a bottle of liquor is not an offence, is it? ;)

aurora97
17-01-2006, 11:50 PM
I think Jawi can start with the drunkerds in Brickfield, such an embarrasing site. They just drink until the point they sleep at the pedestrians, walk way, and parking lot even! Unofrotunately, they are non-muslim so its another story all togather.

Oh and by the way, what abuot the chinese couple who were caught in KLCC kissing and DBKL people wanted to take bribe so as not to give them a summon for indecent act in public. I think it went all the way to Federal Court, because they were non-muslim and secondly this involved a constitutional issue. (don't quote me, the newspaper never reported it again so its kinda old by now)

As long as they don't give an excuse to Jawi to detain non-muslims, i think its kinda fair.

isarahim
18-01-2006, 09:06 AM
How sure are you with this statement of yours? Being married to an Iranian, I have lived in Iran for awhile.....and there is no way that a young couple can go dating in the mall, or garden without any relative companion.
This has only become true the last 10 years. Before that it was very patchy, depending on which district you're in. Even the first years after the Khomeini's return, there were large areas even in Teheran with high degree of such freedom. But this is all gone now, perhaps one of the reason why you also moved out.

silver_bird
18-01-2006, 09:39 PM
SNOOPS AXED :

The cabinet has axed the three-day old morality snoop squad set up by the Federal Territory Religious Department (Jawi).

Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Datuk Seri Mohd Radzi Sheikh Ahmad confirmed the cabinet had decided it should not go ahead so as not to infringe on the personal rights of the public.

Human Resources Minister Datuk Seri Dr Fong Chan Onn, at his post-cab meeting, says: "We don't need such a team as we have a good community of all races in the country."

Immediate reaction

* Jawi director Che Mat Che Ali: "I will wait for a black-and-white instruction."

* Women's Aid Organisation president Ivy Josiah: "Decision shows the government is serious in creating the right environment for the people.

It is critical for the cabinet to send out an important message that this kind of initiative will never be tolerated."

* SIS communications officer Sharifah Mas'as Azzahir: "We are delighted with the move because we should not violate human rights. Snooping is a form of violation of human privacy. It is an invasion which must not be condoned."


PUTRAJAYA: The three-day old morality snoop squad set up by the Federal Territory Religious Department (Jawi) has been axed.

The decision by the cabinet at its weekly meeting yesterday was an unanimous one, which was not surprising as it had issued the same directive to Malacca chief minister Datuk Seri Mohd Ali Rustam in March last year to stop the 4B Youth Movement from doing the same thing after a public outcry.

Several cabinet ministers when contacted confirmed the decision was made at the meeting, but did not want to elobrate.

Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Datuk Seri Mohd Radzi Sheikh Ahmad confirmed the cabinet had decided it should not go ahead so as not to infringe on the personal rights of the public.

"It's improper, based on previous cases," he said.

Human Resources Minister Datuk Seri Dr Fong Chan Onn, at his post-cab meeting, said: "We don't need such a team as we have a good community of all races in the country."

According to sources, the matter was discussed at length, and the cabinet ministers comprising members from Barisan Nasional component party leaders wanted the squad to be banned immediately as it intruded into the people's privacy.

On Monday, 75 people registered for the Putrajaya Islamic Council Volunteers Squad who will be on the lookout for indecent acts such as couples showing mutual affection in public, including holding hands.

Jawi director Che Mat Che Ali said although these personnel would not be empowered to act on their own, they would be quick to alert Jawi enforcement officers.

On Tuesday, Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz had said the team should not be in existence, adding there was no need for another tier in the policing system.

Che Mat, when contacted yesterday, said he will wait for a black-and-white instruction on this matter.

Although it was moot, he explained that the squad was a voluntary one to help disaster victims and to create awareness about Islamic practices.

In an immediate reaction, Women's Aid Organisation president Ivy Josiah said

the decision shows the government is serious in creating the right environment for the people.

She described as a very sensible move as snoop teams of this sort were an invasion of privacy.

"It is critical for the cabinet to send out an important message that this kind of initiative will never be tolerated," she told theSun.

Several human right activists were happy with the decision, including Sisters in Islam (SIS) who said such snooping activity is not allowed in Islam as it is against the citizen's right.

"We are delighted with the move because we should not violate human rights. Snooping is a form of violation of human privacy. It is an invasion which must not be condoned," SIS communications officer Sharifah Mas'as Azzahir said.

Bar Council president Yeo Yang Poh supported the decision.

Updated: 07:05PM Wed, 18 Jan 2006

http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=12683

USJ27Resident
18-01-2006, 10:31 PM
Jawi director Che Mat Che Ali said although these personnel would not be empowered to act on their own, they would be quick to alert Jawi enforcement officers.

On Tuesday, Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz had said the team should not be in existence, adding there was no need for another tier in the policing system.

Che Mat, when contacted yesterday, said he will wait for a black-and-white instruction on this matter.

Although it was moot, he explained that the squad was a voluntary one to help disaster victims and to create awareness about Islamic practices.

Simply put... this fella is either dense "up there" or pretty much, your adamant arrogant pain in the arse.... :mad:

AllUrban
19-01-2006, 10:23 AM
* Jawi director Che Mat Che Ali: "I will wait for a black-and-white instruction."


I would like to share a black-and-white instruction, but I'd love to defer to Mr. Donald Trump....YOURE FIRED!

Ah, dreams...

What is sad is not that malay muslims are disobeying the laws...what is sad is the idea that laws need to exist to prevent malay muslims from "misbehaving"

Such laws are just made to be broken...Why not educate people about the issues and concerns that exist....educate them in a proper and engaging way that interests them, instead of saying "do what I say" and more people will accept and understand...or at the very least, they will listen.

cheers, m.

Rocky19
19-01-2006, 04:14 PM
Although it was moot, he explained that the squad was a voluntary one to help disaster victims and to create awareness about Islamic practices.

Read this guys are suppose to help in fire and disasters. Is this part of JAWI's scope and duty????Can JAWI show us what training they have gone thru to help people. Do they know CPR? Do they know to handle victims? Did they undergo a course on counselling so they can counsel others? Do you need create awareness with 75 guys walking around with baseball caps and vest? What kind of awareness they are they suppose to create? Snooping is what they are suppose to do! The rest is a cover up.On top of that they can help in disasters, really??? :eek: what are the qualification of these 75 guys? and for fire, the least they can do is prepare them with a hard hat not a baseball cap.

and now he needs black and white from the Cabinet. Ini lawan tauke nampak gaya. :rolleyes:

pcyeoh
19-01-2006, 06:27 PM
How sure are you that they won't stop all couples. How do they know that a malay looking man with a chinese girl is actually not a malay man.Or malay looking girl is actually an indian chinese mix??? How? Malaysia is not a homogenous society like Japan or Iran(90+% muslims).They will stop and enquire.How will they stop and enquire?and they are not even the police, so can they stop and ask you for your ID? even police have issues with procedures, and what training have this people gone thru?
You are right Rocky. Those of you who have seen my wife will agree with me that I have issues with these holier than thou people. During Ramadhan, these taliban people have the cheek to tell my wife that as a Muslim, she has to fast. Sometimes when we were in the good mood, we would replied them politely, "sorry we are Chinese so we eat." At other times, I told my wife just ignore them and just whack and see what's next. They don't even have the courtesy to verify our faith first before delivering their sermons to us. By the way since we love nasi kandar very much, this happen most of the time at these restaurants. Sometimes, can't blame them lah when they are over zealous.

Ridi
19-01-2006, 09:26 PM
hello im a newbie and am a muslim. i think the snoop thing is pathetic and ridiculous. its a laughable idea that these people would go around "checking up" on people behaving indecently. i agree with M, i think its a matter of values and you cannot force people to learn values, thats just really unislamic. somehow i have a visual of these group of so called alim malay men being cynical about it thinking theyre doing society any good. anyhow just read about the decision to disband it in the papers today

RolyPoly
20-01-2006, 10:03 AM
Would somebody please answer a simple question for me. I am a non-Muslim. Can I sit on a bench in a shopping complex or a public park with my wife or girlfriend or any other woman with an arm around her without being harrassed by the authorities? Thank you.


Hey Jose, I think you wouldn't be harrassed unless you look like a Muslim and someone may just ask you to show your ID to proof your religion! Another hassle, right? Or even during fasting month, if you look like a Muslim and is found chowing down food at kopi tiam.....you will sure get that glaring look or being approached!....This happened to a friend of mine! Poor chap!

jasonbhlee
20-01-2006, 10:25 AM
i think instead of engaging in this kind of cheap thrill stuff, they should instead focus on snooping and 'advising' their comrades at the 4 ekor outlets or at all the pubs in the city. Plenty of action there. They only want to act on helpless couples knowing full well they have no means to retaliate if caught with 'pants down'!

charis14
20-01-2006, 01:57 PM
Just thought of another role which many of us will appreciate... How about snooping on those pursuing "rasuah"? Don't just think of the police? Many other agencies involved... Most pasar malam operators also pay - to collection teams linked to the "neighbourhood political party"

By the way, will be interesting to see how the Cabinet respond to JAWI's defiance (Ref The Star today). Of course, I will expect some ACTION and not mere verbal correction. Otherwise, it will be fair to treat the Cabinet as a non-entity.

VeeJay
20-01-2006, 06:22 PM
KUALA LUMPUR: The Federal Territory Religious Department (Jawi) wants to go ahead with its snoop squad, against the Cabinet's decision.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/1/20/nation/13165190&sec=nation

Its getting interesting now...goingagainst cabinet's decision...boleh ke? :rolleyes:

FineTuned
20-01-2006, 06:48 PM
Apparently the FTRD/Jawi has no respect for manmade Authority.........they believe they serve a higher Master. How to reason with people like that?
It is so easy to justify anything they want to do by claiming it is on behalf of their religion.

silver_bird
20-01-2006, 07:33 PM
Jawi Accepts Cabinet Decision On Snoop Squad

KUALA LUMPUR, Jan 20 (Bernama) -- The Federal Territories Religious Department (Jawi) Friday said it would abide by the Cabinet's decision on moral policing and would disband the Putrajaya Religious Council Volunteers Squad which it recently set up.

Jawi public relations officer Idris Husin denied issuing a statement to an English tabloid that the department would go ahead with the volunteers squad despite it being opposed by the Cabinet.

"I did not make such a statement to the newspaper and my explanation on the squad had been misconstrued," he told Bernama in response to a front-page report of a newspaper on the matter.

He said the squad was set up, among others, to deal with social problems including indecent behaviour, especially among Muslim youths, through counselling.

He added that it was not intended to be a "snoop squad" or "morality police" as claimed by the media which caused anxiety among some quarters that the squad would infringe on personal liberties.

Infact, he said, members of the squad were not authorised to arrest or undertake unnecessary action against non-Muslim couples behaving indecently, like kissing in public places.

He said the squad members, comprising locals, had been briefed and told of the do's and don'ts.

Idris said Jawi would brief Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Datuk Dr Abdullah Zin on the matter when he returned from Mecca.

-- BERNAMA

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?id=176630

USJ27Resident
20-01-2006, 07:56 PM
By the way, will be interesting to see how the Cabinet respond to JAWI's defiance (Ref The Star today). Of course, I will expect some ACTION and not mere verbal correction. Otherwise, it will be fair to treat the Cabinet as a non-entity.

Kihkihkihkih! isn't the Cabinet treated like a kitchen cabinet.... since when these "gomen agencies" gives two hoots anyway...

Rocky19
21-01-2006, 12:12 PM
Kihkihkihkih! isn't the Cabinet treated like a kitchen cabinet.... since when these "gomen agencies" gives two hoots anyway...
Kitchen cabinet...LOL. :D :D Good bro!!!

Now I read this JAWI guy giving all kind of excuses and cover up on what they are suppose to do with this team...he cares sh!t of the kitchen cabinet. and the non muslims cabinet members giving memorandum...what is wrong with this cooks. Can't they sit and talk, they don't have the balls to do it..cos the kitchen knives are all ov tha place? ;) Good intentions but wrong method..

isarahim
21-01-2006, 12:39 PM
they believe they serve a higher Master. How to reason with people like that?

Correction. They don't genuinely believe they serve a higher master. But the higher master comes in handy for them to justify their pervs. Basically they're just a bunch of voyeurs who've designed a way to do it 'legally' and yet earn money on it.

There's been an array of cases over the years of Jawi officers demanding sexual favours from their victims, a kind of blackmail if you will. As they were all handled by their own courts, the cases have just disappeared...

FineTuned
21-01-2006, 01:22 PM
Correction.......Basically they're just a bunch of voyeurs who've designed a way to do it 'legally' and yet earn money on it.........
sigh.....how to keep up with the deviousness of ppl............. :confused:
and these are supposed to be the good guys? maybe we'll have to form a snoop team to snoop on them? you know, to er...`counsel' them if they overstep their authority, order ear squats, shoot movies on their mobile phones etc.....

joker2107
22-01-2006, 12:36 AM
... of Jawi officers demanding sexual favours from their victims...

cant resist d temptation 2 hint of cover d face n fire d base ;)