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kwchang
15-01-2006, 01:27 AM
If you, the frequent follower of <strike>this thread</strike> the thread by GreenBug on his problems with the Std Chartered Bank, may read this other thread - http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=10988&page=5&pp=15 - where Romeo suggested that I be fair and close this discussion.

I agree with him. Let me hear your arguement on this - that is , how different is it from the thread on Jessie Chung? You see, I feel that it is not right that our community forum should support one man's obsession in publically bringing down another human being by using our webspace. This thread is doing a similar thing, ie running down the Std Chartered bank, using our webspace. I had not seen it that way but after due consideration, I find that Romeo had a point. Hence I am getting your views on this. GreenBug, you could just say yes and allow our forum to be freed of this inadvertent support for your personal crusade.

aurora97
15-01-2006, 02:02 AM
KwChang,

Although you were referring to GreenBug, if i may i would like to write in favour of GreenBug not closing this post. Otherwise, there is going to be a serious domino effect hitting your forum.

"I think" Jessie Chung's case can be differrentiated/distinction can be drawn, from my reading or the conclusion i can draw up. The post regarding Jessie Chung at first sounded kind of interesting, especially when Qbuster talk about issues on medicine/health because this are products that cannot be fooled around with; and may cost the life of another if abused. Than the issue turned ugly... not need to elaborate. The post sort of turn abit homophobic, little bits and pieces on discrimination, and so on. Furthermore, the accused person is not allowed to defend his/her integrity (another issues but i won't go in dept, too controversial).

The definition of a company can be found in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_v._Salomon_&_Co. , this is the deciding case and the foundation of company law. This is the dividing difference between Jessie Chung and a Company.

I think, when a complaint mechanism fails in a company. The complainant can seek opinion from other sources maybe a forum (Dell has theirs, Broadband Fault etc...), consumer tribunal, newspaper (example Telco acted naughty), and so forth. On the other hand, you don't see people's reputation; integrity; so forth being attacked in such sources.

For example:
- If your house is experiencing singking; or illegal immigrants have invaded your plot of land; roads filled with pot holes; don't you think we can paste it in forum and Complaint about it especially taking MPSJ to task for their failure. (Note: MPSJ could be registered under the Companies Act, not sure but "Maybe"... Don't Quote me.) = provided you already exhausted all avenues.
- I think we have a political forum, should be more controversy there?
- Did anyone mention ECMlibra on this post?

Companies and human beings should be set apart, because both the later and former have different rights and law governing them. You can defame a human, whilst for a company i think its goodwill.

I might be wrong, but please do re-consider.

With regards,

Aurora

aurora97
15-01-2006, 03:06 AM
if you wish to enter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_v._Salomon_&_Co. <<<<< observe the full stop not highlighted in blue :eek: , the full stop/period is excluded and you end up having an error that says no such file exist in wikipedia.

Another note:

KwChang, i think your question about whether Jessie Chung and this SCB issue should be posted as a seperate new thread as it involves a great deal about what "we" (everyone else in the forum) are talking about. Furthermore, u can gather more consensus on this topic. I won't have a great debate about this thread, but i am giving you only ideas and opinion.

Oh and by the way, is there a written house rule somewhere. I need to do some reading up, so as to known the boundaries of play.

Pak Kadok
15-01-2006, 09:05 AM
I have been following this thread from day one and if it's stopped, I am sure gonna miss it! ;)

hmckl
15-01-2006, 10:15 AM
You see, I feel that it is not right that our community forum should support one man's obsession in publically bringing down another human being by using our webspace. This thread is doing a similar thing, ie running down the Std Chartered bank, using our webspace. I had not seen it that way but after due consideration, I find that Romeo had a point.

Come'on Romeo; let's be nice to Greenbug ... I find this thread 'entertaining' and 'educational' ... and to be fair, Greenbug was backing up nicely (most of the time) what he said with 'letters', 'quotes' etc and not actually 'running down' SCB. Closing this thread, like what others forumers are saying ... will be sad :)

orchipalar
15-01-2006, 12:18 PM
Err...fellow avid forumer n keen contributor to this webforum GreenBug:)...is up against an international n large multi-national banking institution...n sharing his personal experience with the rest here without asking for anything in return from anyone or this webforum...

Ahem...like many others Orchi has been a client of SCB too...n has learnt much from this thread...

Similarly with the previous...GreenBug vs. Toyota...which was resolved quite amicably eventually...Orchi believes this here GreenBug vs. SCB Mortgage II...should be allowed to carry on as well... :)

Btw...Orchi won't comment on qBUSTER vs. (Dr.)Jessie Chung's false credentials n baseless medical claims n practices in this thread(irrelevant)...as Orchi has said plenty clearly over the course of that case...

SunwayKid
15-01-2006, 01:18 PM
Are we going to adopt a form of censorship here in this forum? If it is one man's obsession, there wouldn't be much responses, nor views on the thread. There is nothing racialistic, nor gormen threatening in both the SCB and Toyota threads. All I see and read is someone crying out for help and support............and if we chose to ignore that and close the thread, what sort of community are we?

Rocky19
15-01-2006, 05:15 PM
chang,

I feel that this is a 2 way street. People or customers need to voice their unhappiness with the service or products that has not met their needs. They should do it directly with the company involved first. But not all companies deal with the complaints in an effective manner. some just brush it off. Thus there should be other evenues for complaints. IN SJ/USJ, this forum is one area. How effective is this forum. Well we don't know. Guess the UMW worked well as Greenbug did get what he wanted and this forum played a key role IMHO. I even told my friend who had issue with UMW to post here as UMW was giving him a run around that was ridiculous as the are not listening to his complaint that is valid as they UMW screwed up.

But it is a learning experience for residents here as the issue raised can be educational. I've picked up some tips here on when applying for loans. The companies also can get feedback from forums like this and ensure that they meet their customer needs, this is what I mean by 2 way street.

But if we say we can't complaint on anything on this forum then it defeats the purpose of us sharing experience. We can even argue that we should not even share good places to eat as it is not fair to those not recommended or it can be biased as one man's meat is another man's poison. I guess we have to look at what was the objectives of this forum by the founders.

Bottom line we are hear to share ideas, views, experience(good or bad),TTs.

GreenBug
15-01-2006, 09:19 PM
First and foremost, thanks to those members who spoke up for this thread to continue. At the same time, I respect those who want this thread closed.

Dr Jessie's thread was 'personal' and several parties were up against each other. I thought that thread was different from the one I am on a one-man campaign against Standard Chartered Bank, which are based on facts. If it is isn't based on facts, you would see the big, strong and friendly bank slapping me with a suit and I wouldn't dare even mention the incidents if they ain't true nor would I even dare mention SCB by name!

As far as this case against SCB, it started with a very obvious problem, that the Mortgage Plus II ain't working because the Plan does not allow a borrower to terminate the loan agreement prematurely - without suffering the "full repayment" and "peanuts balalnce in endowment plan" consequences.

Many readers contributed to the above "endowment plans don't work" argument and it went on. Many twists and turns later, this thread turned out to be an update of the running battle I had with the bank and their "perceived" delaying tactic.

These are all TRUE incidents and I can back them up with tape-recordings of my conversation with their senior manager as well the various documents and e-mails.

If, however, the administrator of this website usj.com.my chooses to delete this whole thread, I must respect his right to do so, but it will be a sad day for blogsites. Then, one also cannot continue to whack MAS, Proton, MPSA or even your neighbor with the noisy dog or against your neighbor who is building an "illegal" 3-storey house next to your double-storey.... it will wipe out the usefullness and the very purpose of a blogsite!

I respect there must be integrity and openness in what we write and also in being accountable, I think I have been all along. But I am just a guest on this site, being a Subang Jaya resident before, and I cannot make demands.

Its your call KWChang......

aurora97
15-01-2006, 09:38 PM
Greenbug,
You even recorded the conversation, i am very amazed in fact and commend such cautiousness. Keeps the bank from backtracking on its words, and say "sorry Sir, please don't put words into our mouth, we never said anything like that."

I am drooling to hear what the bank had told you about your loan condition, i've been following up on your post to.(Some extracts of the recorded dialog maybe) As a future home owner myself, i've learnt a valuable lesson from your post.

Again, we have to wait for final outcome before we come to any conclusions i.e. KwChang.

Summary of this post:
1. I am impress with the recording made by Greenbug
2. Would like to read/hear maybe the conversation from the recording with SCB.
3. Waiting for a pending decision from KwChang regarding Jessie Chung, UMW, and SCB.

Correct me if i am wrong, in advance.

kwchang
15-01-2006, 11:14 PM
You people are responding well to the vote on whether to stop all types of one-man crusades on the Forum. I think we may have misunderstood Romeo. On a re-read, I would think that Romeo is not really asking me to stop the StdCharted thread but rather to allow the Jessie thread to continue. All he did was to accuse me of having double standards.

I will allow this discussion to continue for one or more days before I tell you my opinion. So far you guys are doing fine...

By the way, if I stopped a thread, it is not a deletion - we would not remove any thread unless it is SPAM, advertisement or carries stuff against national interests. Even when a thread is stopped, it will continue to be available for all to read.

kwchang
15-01-2006, 11:32 PM
...Oh and by the way, is there a written house rule somewhere. I need to do some reading up, so as to known the boundaries of play.
Since you asked - please find "Rules" in the grey banner area above all forum pages.

tan_r
15-01-2006, 11:39 PM
I personally feel that the 'Jessie Chung thread' isn't a personal crusade but an issue of public interest, judging from the interest it generated. If it isn't it would have died a natural death in the forum - none would have read and none would have responded.

aurora97
16-01-2006, 12:10 AM
Thanks KwChang For pointing out the where the house rules are, i've been scrolling downwards most of the time and didn't notice the fine prints on the top!

Pak Kadok
16-01-2006, 08:21 AM
I really would like to know the conclusion of the current "dispute" between Herr GreenBug & SCB.

If this thread comes to an end in 2 days' time (if you so decide so), then, it's like watching a 3 hour movie without knowing its conclusion.

charis14
16-01-2006, 08:54 AM
It will be good to allow members the opportunity to share grievances... provided this is properly backed and the member is willing to defend when sued. It is interesting threads like these which kept me glued to usj.com.my since past half year.

Personally, the SCB loan and Toyota threads made interesting reading for me. Must admit to getting a little tired of issue lately but I have the option of not reading. The Jessie issue remain of interest to me.

gtl
16-01-2006, 09:16 AM
IMHO, we shd not stop or ban members from making grievances. if it gets too "tired", i am sure it will die a natural death..........let's info flow like they used too. but if it's gets too personal, then chang can starts to give banana lah.

cheng has been fair, so to me, i don't have an issue with his judgements.

CCY
16-01-2006, 09:43 AM
I think qbuster brought up a very good issue here n it is also in our backyard as well. What he did may prevent a worse issue on health n ethics from cropping up later.
SCB n Toyota are issues that has happen . Why it happens ? Is it because no ones see it is flawed in the very begining n put a stop to it ?

kpc
16-01-2006, 09:53 AM
Let both threads continue...

VeeJay
16-01-2006, 10:29 AM
Although both threads started by individual on their personal encounter but the information posted was very public and public to know and be aware off, may has become knowledgeable by the thread and various information posting, as such I support its continuous…

tupai
16-01-2006, 06:33 PM
WHAT??? I'm a few days outta touch with this community site,and now... lil Bug's fight against SCB is gonna be squashed & hushed? :mad:

Community site is just that. We learn from each other's expereince; good, bad and ugly. I have learned so many eye-popping things form fellow forumers that I find myself proud to ask people outside of SJ to surf here.
usj.com.my is very informative & educational becos of people like GreenBug.

By Jove! I can even be showing off my lack of grey mass if I get involved in any discussion outside of motorbikes so in essence, I clicked on topics that I can learn from...simply mean,I don't give a flying banana when this site is only full of intellectual intercourses...I simply stop clickin' the thread (but i digress)...cos it had stopped serving me daily bread & butter issue.

I vote for David in his fight against Goliath...But GB shouldn't disclose too much of his fighting tactics lah :p

Go GB, GO!!!!!!!

Yang Amat Bersokong GB's punya thread... lato tupai

tupai
16-01-2006, 06:40 PM
P/s Personally, I don't read nor follow this jessie thread. It falls into the same thread as the buldung billionaire's....I'll read the first few replies...made up my ptifully small mind that its a con...and I simply stop clickin'.

My caveats:
1. "Suckers do not deserve to keep their money..."
2. " NO body loves me [except my family] enough to give me such a shockingly good deal...therefore its a con"

If I may add. GB's thread points to ONE thing. i.e. Read & Understand & be enlightened by all the fine prints. That my learning. :p

Yang Akan Belajar lagi lato tupai

Pak Kadok
16-01-2006, 07:53 PM
All the stuff spilled here have been very informative...

I have managed to learn a thing or two, as a result.

lilifjp
16-01-2006, 11:59 PM
I would like to see Green Bug's thread with SCB continue. And I also hope that he will get a good ending by getting all his hard earned money back. :-)

GreenBug
17-01-2006, 12:09 AM
I agree with him. Let me hear your argument on this - that is , how different is it from the thread on Jessie Chung? You see, I feel that it is not right that our community forum should support one man's obsession in publically bringing down another human being by using our webspace. This thread is doing a similar thing, ie running down the Std Chartered bank, using our webspace.Well KWChang, with much due respect, I beg to differ from Romeo's and your opinion on the thread about Standard Chartered Bank. I wrote about the problems I had with the bank, the issues of endowment-related loan products, others contributed to the thread by posting articles from UK and even Singapore about endowment-linked financial products.... and it is definitely not a personal vendetta as you have so wrongly put it. It is not even a one man's obsession in bringing down any institution (I'm no Nick Leeson in Barings Bank) and I am not using this webspace in running down Standard Chartered Bank. Pls do not, with just one post from Romeo, suddenly change your mind about this thread. As the mod, you've the right to, but if that happens, it will really be a sad day for blogospehere.... Then we have to remove all the sites where we all 'run down' Proton, MAS, Khir Toyo, MPSA, the Police, Noh Mohamad, OCBC Melaka, etc... I will leave that decision to you.
I had not seen it that way but after due consideration, I find that Romeo had a point. Hence I am getting your views on this. GreenBug, you could just say yes and allow our forum to be freed of this inadvertent support for your personal crusade.KWChang, it is not a personal crusade. For Godsake, re-read the whole thread..... And I will not say YES either to this accusation that I am in a "personal crusade against the bank". Again, I leave it to your decision, you're the moderator.

BUT NOT TO WORRY, THIS IS MY LAST POSTING IN USJ.COM.MY Just delete my membership and my avatar whatever.... First the bank accused me of twisting their words and now you used words like "personal vendetta", "one man's personal crusade", "one man's obsession in bringing down...."

Why do we all vote for "freedom blog" at all ????? and be proud of having done something, no matter how small, to further freedom of expressions. I know what you will say, "can you handle it?" I think the question should not be directed at me alone but to all of you as well. Goodnite!

kwchang
17-01-2006, 12:19 AM
Greenbug, I was asking for opinions and up till now, we note that all are in support that you continue. So why leave? Did you think I will close it just yet? I am trying to be democratic here and let the rest decide. My apologies if I sounded one-sided earlier.

By the way, this is not BLOGging. This is a Forum.

mon
17-01-2006, 12:28 AM
Chang is just a guy, stressed out with bad days like us sometimes.. yet, I believe he has always done his best to be fair..

Greenbug..don't leave us just yet. Many have gained valuable info and knowledge from your thread. For instance, me! Have a good nite rest instead.

jand
17-01-2006, 12:33 AM
hahaha, Greenbug. I think you've jumped a little ahead of yourself. :)
time to change your windshield wipers :cool:

but sleep is good though. it gives you time to rest and reset your mind hence the term "let me sleep on it". :D

Rocky19
17-01-2006, 10:46 PM
greenbug,

not so fast lah to cabit from usj.com. you owe some us some durian treats in penang...i guess it is bugbear,ccy,penangkia and myself. so don't cabut so fast like kimi on a mclaren... :)

anyway greenbug as you can see most people are very supportive of what you have been doing. I'll give it to you, you are relentless on any issues you face. You don't give up and I hope some of us can do this. that said you are the only guy who complaints but buys the same car again and again..yeah it is toyota not UMW.I'd have gone to another car but that is me.

Chang put it up for a vote and he may have chosen the wrong words or one sided but it was not behind you back or stabbing you in your back(belief me that is even worse)etc.He has apologised.He has to deal with all of us and that is not easy cos some of us like banana as we think it is good for us. As far as the vote is concerned you are leading and chang is getting input that we are keen in the issue as it is more than greenbig vs SCB. He will not close it if majority says we want it. So please continue, some people are following it like a sitcom..you should charge Pak Kadok and charis14 a fee... :D They are all in suspense. So chill out bro and we must watch F1 this year together and beat that Renault team and make them buy us durian instead. :cool:

wAISEKMAo
18-01-2006, 12:33 AM
If you, the frequent follower of <strike>this thread</strike> the thread by GreenBug on his problems with the Std Chartered Bank, may read this other thread - http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=10988&page=5&pp=15 - where Romeo suggested that I be fair and close this discussion.

I agree with him. Let me hear your arguement on this - that is , how different is it from the thread on Jessie Chung? You see, I feel that it is not right that our community forum should support one man's obsession in publically bringing down another human being by using our webspace. This thread is doing a similar thing, ie running down the Std Chartered bank, using our webspace. I had not seen it that way but after due consideration, I find that Romeo had a point. Hence I am getting your views on this. GreenBug, you could just say yes and allow our forum to be freed of this inadvertent support for your personal crusade.

If you guys should think the thread is too long, maybe Greenbug should move his thread (full thread) somewhere else (independent of usj.com.my) so the public can view it in the future. However, Greenbug should also be entitle to have a "direction" from usj.com.my to his site.

As of these, i think the administrator should also updated the rule on how long is consider "long" and how should or should not or what circumstances should they close a thread.

kkshi
18-01-2006, 12:57 AM
greenbug,

i don't realy talks in forum but i have to admit that i learned something from your posting,so don't let this matter stop you!

everyone will be waiting for you,don't go....away :)

k,goodnite!

orchipalar
18-01-2006, 01:30 AM
Err...dear GreenBug:)...how come like that wan...? Not fair leh...:D

Ahem...aiyooo...the case file...GreenBug vs. SCB Mortgage 2...would then be a never ending story liao... :(

Btw...Orchi flew close to 12 hours just to make it in time to post in this here thread ok...err...kasi muka sikit lah... :o

Teeque
18-01-2006, 03:21 AM
If you, the frequent follower of <strike>this thread</strike> the thread by GreenBug on his problems with the Std Chartered Bank, may read this other thread - http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=10988&page=5&pp=15 - where Romeo suggested that I be fair and close this discussion.

I agree with him. Let me hear your arguement on this - that is , how different is it from the thread on Jessie Chung? You see, I feel that it is not right that our community forum should support one man's obsession in publically bringing down another human being by using our webspace.....


....Why should we be an accessory to these fights?...


...By the way, this is not BLOGging. This is a Forum.

Firstly, one has to answer these questions above, namely:

1. How different is Greenbug's threads to the Jessie Chung's thread?

2. Are we an accessory to these 'threads'? Define accessory.

3. And the difference between a blog and a webforum.

My humble 2 sen will come later....

Teeque
18-01-2006, 04:19 AM
Read the Jessie Chung thread frm here on and you will get to know how has this thread gone on to affect other threads that 'went on and on'.

http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=10988&page=4&pp=15

The poster (romeo) had chose to highlight the SCB and UMW thread but in effect, there are countless other threads that also 'went on and on' such as those threads on Proton, MAS, MPSJ, Squatgate or the Lebanese businessman. But ask yourselves this - are all these threads mentioned above legitimate? Personally, I would like to think so. Facts and information was posted to inform and / or warn readers. Arguments were also posted for and against, this normally occurs in a forum. But ofcos, arguments can tend to degenerate into a 'forum brawl' focussing on personal attacks. This is where our forum policeman comes in. But as he is just human, he gets tired moderating these 'forum brawls' or forummers getting out of line, which for your info, numbers several a week. Then he has this to say in Jessie Chung's thread (only on this thread):

.... Kudos to qbuster for his untiring efforts.
However, in the original thread some time ago, I did say that qbuster had been harping on Jessie for long enough and that he had already made his point. Frankly i was getting tired of reading his rant about Jessie's false credentials. Mind you, as a moderator, I do need to read all the posts, especially if qbuster was making a case against somebody else.

Please note - my concern then was (and still is) that this Forum was becoming a stage for qbuster to vent his opinions against Jessie. Why should we be an accessory for his fight? We allow for it if it was a public announcement and warning to unsuspecting "patients". However, I do not think it is right to go on and on about Jessie. Similarly it is also not right to go on and on about Elie. Let the newspapers do it, they got to sell the papers. We don't. Furthermore, the threads will be here, permanent, for all to read in posterity....
So then, frm here, maybe this bit of info will help answer the 3 questions I had posted earlier. I will attempt my 2 sen when I hv gathered enough materials. Cheers..

Life Ranger
18-01-2006, 01:40 PM
greenbug,

i don't realy talks in forum but i have to admit that i learned something from your posting,so don't let this matter stop you!

everyone will be waiting for you,don't go....away :)




So said I. :)

*