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AllUrban
26-12-2005, 04:20 PM
A short time ago, (June or July) someone posted information about government plans for an LRT extension into Subang Jaya.

If anyone has more information about these plans, please contact me or reply to this post. I am very interested in Public Transport planning and design. I think that these areas of planning absolutely must have community involvement, feedback and approval.

Regards

Mr. M

-It's not public transport without the PUBLIC!-

n6688my
27-12-2005, 01:54 AM
or any future plans of LRT for Sunway or Puchong?

GreyShadow
27-12-2005, 09:46 AM
Well... i have heard that Sunway Group is negotiating with Star LRT to extend their service from Kelana Jaya into Sunway and link it with their own monorail system... Maybe it will materialized in the future... 10, 20 years maybe?

mykern
27-12-2005, 10:35 AM
Dear grey shadow ... in 10 or 20 years .. the place wil be so crowded and with so many flyovers that this LRT or Monorail should go under ground!
Besides .. i'll be retired by then .. .. :>) :rolleyes:

pucman
27-12-2005, 11:34 AM
or any future plans of LRT for Sunway or Puchong?

There were talks of a puchong LRT a few months ago by this puchong assemblyman Dr.kow, maybe you can phone him up on the status.

I believe sunway, puchong, subang LRT will be build on the same phase because they are so near each other.

tempuadua
27-12-2005, 01:40 PM
or any future plans of LRT for Sunway or Puchong?
If you care to read some of the advertisements in the national newspapers by housing developers in Puchong/Kinrara area, you will see that they actually indicated the proposed new routes of LRT in their advertisement. If I am not mistaken, the LRT route will be extended from Sri Petaling to bandar Puchong Jaya, infront of IOI mall. If they dare to advertise it in the national newspapers , they must have known something that we ordinary rakyat don't. This is actually a great news to me. But the main question is WHEN? If it is in 10 or 15 years time, I and our kawanbaru, mykern, are already retired.

isarahim
27-12-2005, 01:57 PM
If you care to read some of the advertisements in the national newspapers by housing developers in Puchong/Kinrara area, you will see that they actually indicated the proposed new routes of LRT in their advertisement. If I am not mistaken, the LRT route will be extended from Sri Petaling to bandar Puchong Jaya, infront of IOI mall. If they dare to advertise it in the national newspapers , they must have known something that we ordinary rakyat don't.
Just test them. Ask them to put their money where their mouth is. Ask them to contract that if it doesn't happen within 5 years, you will get 20% of your money back.

We Malaysians need to be tougher against these big-mouthed contractors. And from what I understand the contractors along the Puchong - Bukit Jalil road are the worst of the lot.

GreyShadow
27-12-2005, 02:59 PM
Those housing developers are among the biggest conman of all times!
Just flip thru any weekend newspaper and you'll see lot of those misleading adverts. The map they show is never according to actual scale. Sepang can be as near as just beside KL, and the all of the so called "Proposed" U turn on the highway here, "Proposed" highway link there, "Proposed" LRT and etc...
Me got a fren who bought a house at area between Bukit Jalil & Puchong, where the developer promised there will be a Bukit Jalil Puchong highway U turn right in front of his housing estate when he receive the house... after 3 years receiving the house... still no sign of the so called U turn on the Bukit Jalil-Puchong Highway. Now if he need to go to Bukit Jalil direction, he'll need to drive all the way down to Bandar Kinrara there and make a U-turn which is quite far away.

Sometimes those conmen even went outstation to con other ppl, like my fren in my hometown one day just called me suddenly to ask whether it's only 10 minutes walking distance from the Tiara Ville (under construction just beside mesiniaga) to Sunway Pyramid and also 10 minutes walking distance to Taylor & Inti... which was told by the salesgirl promoting the apartment in Kuching.

Those ppl will just tell you anything you wanted to hear just to sell you a unit... :mad:

cactuc1
27-12-2005, 10:49 PM
Sometimes those conmen even went outstation to con other ppl, like my fren in my hometown one day just called me suddenly to ask whether it's only 10 minutes walking distance from the Tiara Ville (under construction just beside mesiniaga) to Sunway Pyramid and also 10 minutes walking distance to Taylor & Inti... which was told by the salesgirl promoting the apartment in Kuching.
Those ppl will just tell you anything you wanted to hear just to sell you a unit... :mad:

Hmm...walk to/from sunway pramid to inti/taylor take about 20-30 minute if brisk walking..that how long i took...

10 minute is by car ... if u lucky can get a parking place at weekdays business hour..at ss15.

pcyeoh
27-12-2005, 11:39 PM
A short time ago, (June or July) someone posted information about government plans for an LRT extension into Subang Jaya.

If anyone has more information about these plans, please contact me or reply to this post. I am very interested in Public Transport planning and design. I think that these areas of planning absolutely must have community involvement, feedback and approval.

Regards

Mr. M

-It's not public transport without the PUBLIC!-

I suggest you get hold of the Selangor Structure Plan (Draft version) released in July 2005, study the transportation chapter and then contact the State Planning Department in Shah Alam and discuss with them your needs. You can also contact our Majlis Perbandaran Subang Jaya (MPSJ)l. Also watch out for the MPSJ Local Plan which should be tabled for objection anytime now. Forget about those developers. They are not the ones building their LRTs. In fact they are the ones building castles in the air. They will do anything even to lie about those proposed LRT just to sell their houses. If there is any LRT coming, the Selangor Structure Plan will have it in their map.

AllUrban
30-12-2005, 11:18 AM
I suggest you get hold of the Selangor Structure Plan (Draft version) released in July 2005, study the transportation chapter and then contact the State Planning Department in Shah Alam and discuss with them your needs. You can also contact our Majlis Perbandaran Subang Jaya (MPSJ)l. Also watch out for the MPSJ Local Plan which should be tabled for objection anytime now. Forget about those developers. They are not the ones building their LRTs. In fact they are the ones building castles in the air. They will do anything even to lie about those proposed LRT just to sell their houses. If there is any LRT coming, the Selangor Structure Plan will have it in their map.

Yes, I don't care much for what they say...I remember the one developer that had a Proposed AEL running from Seremban to KLIA on their development.

Which office in the MPSJ do I need to contact to get the Selangor Structural Plan? Or, alternatively, can someone on this forum provide me with a copy of the file?

Thanks very much.

AllUrban
30-12-2005, 11:36 AM
I am attaching a file that shows the DBKL structural plan which includes future LRT transit plans.

Sadly, there is not enough information...such as where the stations will be located, what type of LRT will be used, etc.

Basically there is a plan for a line to Cheras, extensions from Sentul Timur northwards, and a line to Damansara.

I dont understand the line that runs parallel to the KTM laluan Pel. Klang. Perhaps someone else knows about this. I put some quotes from the DBKL plan below:

"The major growth areas in Kuala Lumpur are now well linked to the City Centre except those on the east-west axis. The feasibility of a new Damansara - Cheras LRT line linking growth areas in the east and west shall be investigated together with new rail links to serve district centres, comprehensive development areas and growth areas.

"It is also proposed that the STAR LRT line from Sentul Timur station be extended northward towards Taman Wahyu and westward towards Kepong and another line be extended from Sri Petaling station westward to serve the area around Bukit Jalil.
A further extension to the LRT is proposed from KL Sentral station to the proposed district centre at Bukit Indah. These five future lines will add a further 41.9 kilometres to the existing network."


Kind regards

PS. I had to crop the picture a little bit so that it would fit for uploading. However, all the relevant info is there.

pucman
30-12-2005, 01:43 PM
A short time ago, (June or July) someone posted information about government plans for an LRT extension into Subang Jaya.

If anyone has more information about these plans, please contact me or reply to this post. I am very interested in Public Transport planning and design. I think that these areas of planning absolutely must have community involvement, feedback and approval.

Regards

Mr. M

-It's not public transport without the PUBLIC!-


read below received today .......

No firm confirmation on this yet. To build an extension, it will take at least five years as we need to acquire land etc.

Hope this answers your question.

Thank you.

Katherine Chew
Senior Manager
Corporate Communications Division
Rangkaian Pengangkutan Integrasi Deras Sdn Bhd
No 1 Jalan PJU 1A/46
Off Jalan Lapangan Terbang Subang
47301 Petaling Jaya
Tel : 603-7650 7788 extn 1061
Fax: 603-7625 6667
Toll free: 1-800-388 228
www.rapidkl.com.my

AllUrban
30-12-2005, 04:58 PM
I have snipped this item from the DAP's reply to the government budget for 2006. It is the DAP's statement on Public Transport.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAP Response to Malaysia 2006 Budget
8. Investing In Public Transportation
While the utilization of public transport has declined from 34 % in 1985 to 16 % currently, Malaysia’s registered vehicles will reach 14 million units this year. Such high vehicle usage is extraordinary for a country of 26 million people.

Public transportation in most countries are subsidised by the government but it is clearly not the case in Malaysia. The Government had no problem in subsidising national car producers for the past two decades to perpetuate an automobile society. It has also been building one after another public road for the use of private vehicles but had never been serious about subsidising public transportation. It is time to call for a paradigm shift from our automobile dependence culture in the face of increased international petrol prices.

DAP calls on the Government
• To redirect the RM 2.3 billion savings from petrol subsidy to improve public transport system with the ultimate aim of reducing the dependence on private vehicles that consume so much of petrol products;
• To scrap the RM 1.3 billion 26km-KL-Putrajaya dedicated highway;
• To scrap the RM 368 million 18km-Putrajaya Monorail Project.

DAP is of the view that existing roads to Putrajaya and an efficiently run bus system are good enough to serve the need of Putrajaya, a city of 70,000 commuters and residents.

The RM 3.968 billion savings from the above three sources should be channeled:
• To build a 10km extension for Kelana Jaya Line (formerly known as Putra LRT) from its Subang Depot to Sunway, Subang Jaya and USJ, catering for a population of 300,000. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• To extend Seri Petaling Line (formerly known as STAR LRT) from Seri Petaling to Puchong to cater for another 200,000 people. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• To extend Ampang Line (formerly known as STAR LRT) to the Greater Cheras areas (including parts of Selangor), catering for 500,000 people. (Cost: RM 600 million).
• To increase the number of LRT coaches, feeder buses and parking spaces around LRT stations by four fold. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• (The cost of the original Putra and STAR LRTs were RM 2 billion and RM 3.5 billion respectively.)
• To add 3,000 buses, each at a cost of RM 200,000, to create a Bus Rapid Transit System in the Klang Valley, modeling after the success story of Brazil’s Curitiba. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• To invest the remaining RM 968 million into the management of a world class integrated public transportation system in Kuala Lumpur and other major cities in the country.

What are your thoughts about this statement?

Regards, M.

isarahim
31-12-2005, 03:45 PM
This is very much in the right direction.

Here are some other essential points which should be included (specifically focussing on making public transporation attractive and practical):

- Every station should be accessed with at least 3 escalators (1 up, 1 down and 1 to go with the peak flow and as spare) and 1 lift. Handicapped, elderly and families with children should not have to negotiate a single stair step.

- The stations should be equipped with significantly more waiting seats.

- There should be sufficient amount of coaches for people not to have to stand up except for in emergency cases.

- The coaches should be redesigned so that seats are perpendicular and not parallel to the travelling direction. This is both a security, efficiency and comfort requirement. The distance between the seats should be such that it becomes possible to read a paper, a book or work on a notebook.

- A relatively cheap but popularity driving feature would be to equip LRT stations and coaches with free WiFi.

- Drop off and pick up lanes, as well as bus-lanes, should be so designed that they do not block any lane of the main road, especially at peak hours.

orchipalar
31-12-2005, 04:03 PM
I have snipped this item from the DAP's reply to the government budget for 2006. It is the DAP's statement on Public Transport.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAP Response to Malaysia 2006 Budget
8. Investing In Public Transportation

• To scrap the RM 368 million 18km-Putrajaya Monorail Project.
Err...this has since been put on hold already costing Orchi an arm n a leg...:o

whatever they do...DO NOT interrupt when the project gets underway again...

pucman
31-12-2005, 06:40 PM
Err...this has since been put on hold already costing Orchi an arm n a leg...:o

whatever they do...DO NOT interrupt when the project gets underway again...

How many people are living in putrajaya compared to subang, puchong, cheras etc ? Where are their priorities ?

starrnorth
31-12-2005, 11:16 PM
No such thing as LRT to Subang. It will be a new company called SRT (Sentral Rail Transit). Go throu Subang parade, saujana residency or jana towers, ss15, ss14, ss19, usj 5, usj 10, summit, usj 3k center, summit, mpsj 3k, sjmc, cut across wangsa baiduri, suway ridzuan / aman / keyangan flats, Leisure Commerce, PJS,then along old klang road, and then to Sentral Station. But actual route still not finalise.

tempuadua
01-01-2006, 02:40 AM
I have snipped this item from the DAP's reply to the government budget for 2006. It is the DAP's statement on Public Transport.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAP Response to Malaysia 2006 Budget

• To extend Seri Petaling Line (formerly known as STAR LRT) from Seri Petaling to Puchong to cater for another 200,000 people. (Cost: RM 600 million)
200,000 people? Take a drive from Bandar Puteri Puchong to Technology Park and look at the housing projects mushrooming along the Bkt. Jalil Highway. In 5 years time, I am sure there will be an increase of at least 100,000 people living in the Puchong/ Kinrara area, and this may translate into another 10,000 new vehicles in the area.
Transport infrastructure developments are normally to cater for future need, say 40 or 50 years time. And to do this effectively, urban planners should put on their thinking hats. If you have been on Bangkok's skytrain, you will know that the KL Monorail were poorly designed and planned.

clfoo
02-01-2006, 04:23 PM
No such thing as LRT to Subang. It will be a new company called SRT (Sentral Rail Transit). Go throu Subang parade, saujana residency or jana towers, ss15, ss14, ss19, usj 5, usj 10, summit, usj 3k center, summit, mpsj 3k, sjmc, cut across wangsa baiduri, suway ridzuan / aman / keyangan flats, Leisure Commerce, PJS,then along old klang road, and then to Sentral Station. But actual route still not finalise.

got shadow or not this news? how come most of us still dibawah tempurung ? authority would like to give us a surprise again is it? pls let us know when will this schedule to start lah .. my heart cannot stand the excitement too long leh ..
.. but i still got few reasons of being sceptical, just only list 2 for the moment (will be more than happy to be proven wrong):
1)why this good news should be shy from announcing to public?
2)why developer didn't exploit this piece of info in their new launching?
:confused:

AllUrban
03-01-2006, 04:03 PM
No such thing as LRT to Subang. It will be a new company called SRT (Sentral Rail Transit). Go throu Subang parade, saujana residency or jana towers, ss15, ss14, ss19, usj 5, usj 10, summit, usj 3k center, summit, mpsj 3k, sjmc, cut across wangsa baiduri, suway ridzuan / aman / keyangan flats, Leisure Commerce, PJS,then along old klang road, and then to Sentral Station. But actual route still not finalise.

Starrnorth, do you have any pictures or files you can share, this information is very interesting.

Maybe this is the unexplained line heading west from KL sentral, in the DBKL map that I posted.

However, I do not think that this line will help very much...there is already the KTM routes running from Subang to KL Sentral...why build another route parallel to it?

To the people at RapidKL...not everyone lives and works in KL anymore...I think there is a need for a north-south Damansara-Subang-USJ Corridor...

The future LRT system of KL (in my view) will be a few ring-style lines, connected to the main city by the existing LRT lines, like the spokes of a wheel.

Regards

AllUrban
03-01-2006, 04:32 PM
Transport infrastructure developments are normally to cater for future need, say 40 or 50 years time. And to do this effectively, urban planners should put on their thinking hats. If you have been on Bangkok's skytrain, you will know that the KL Monorail were poorly designed and planned.

I totally agree with you. There are many issues in Malaysia and the first issue is a poorly planned culture. Look at Putrajaya...a "planned" city with only one shopping amenity and nothing to do in the commercial/central areas in the evenings.......

It's the simple details that are often forgotten. When I do planning activities, I tend to look at where people walk. The reason is so simple...every dirt path you see is the record of many people walking somewhere. A dirt path beside a street, means that a walkway is necessary. A dirt path cutting across a corner means that people are cutting accross the corner. Passengers on a bus are usually going to use that bus again and again.....

As for the Bangkok Skytrain...it is very interesting, that political squabbles have stopped the Skytrain at the Chao Praya river. The bridge has already been built, but the funding for the extensions is not there and will not be until someone else is elected.

Perhaps there are similar polticial rivalries in this area?

As for the KL monorail...the route should use Jalan Tun Sambanthan after Maharajalela Station...instead of along the river. A station at KL Sentral should be constructed over Jalan Tun Sambanthan, and than another further south (Brickfields). The existing Tun Sambanthan and KL Sentral Stations can be used for overload trips, and for trains that are going out of service.

If the monorail was running along Jalan Tun Sambanthan, it could then be extended to MidValley city (lots of customers for the monorail, far less traffic problems), and ultimately, down to Bukit Jalil....

Regards, M

PS. why do some maps (e.g. the one by KTM) have a Sultan Suleiman Station, and refer to Maharajalela as "Station Merdeka" (I know it's for the Stadium). Why can there not be one, highly accurate map for KL?

PPS. Sorry if I seem to rant :o

AllUrban
03-01-2006, 04:50 PM
PUCMAN, Do you have a contact email address for Katherine Chew, or did you just use the address suggest@rapidkl.com.my?

Thank you kindly

clfoo
03-01-2006, 08:28 PM
However, I do not think that this line will help very much...there is already the KTM routes running from Subang to KL Sentral...why build another route parallel to it?

contrary, i think the traffic problem won't ease if the train do not reach usj as we r aware most of the jam now is due to more traffic flowing from usj direction into sj. However agree with u the route mentioned almost parallel to KTM, it will be more beneficial if they can pass thru puchong and meet at KL sentral hub.

Yourdadisangry
04-01-2006, 09:41 AM
I do hope the the LRT lane extended to Kota Damansara....hehehhe

orchipalar
04-01-2006, 10:23 PM
Err...plan to extent Putra LRT to Subang Jaya...

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/National/20060104084000/Article/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/National/trans.jpg

• Extending the Putra LRT rail service to Subang Jaya and the Star LRT service to Old Klang Road.

Ahem...lets keep our fingers crossed... (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/National/20060104084000/Article/index_html)

VeeJay
04-01-2006, 10:59 PM
They should also consider to extend towards damansara, around TEsco/Ikea area. Then it will be real worthwhile to see more people using it thus reducing vehicle traffic.

pucman
04-01-2006, 11:40 PM
PUCMAN, Do you have a contact email address for Katherine Chew, or did you just use the address suggest@rapidkl.com.my?

Thank you kindly

I think I deleted the email . You can send to that contact address you mentioned and attention to katherine chew.

pucman
04-01-2006, 11:45 PM
Err...plan to extent Putra LRT to Subang Jaya...

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/National/20060104084000/Article/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/National/trans.jpg

• Extending the Putra LRT rail service to Subang Jaya and the Star LRT service to Old Klang Road.

Ahem...lets keep our fingers crossed... (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/National/20060104084000/Article/index_html)


Where does puchong and sunway fits in ? I think they should join the two system up. ie. subang jaya can go straight to bukit jalil too.

clfoo
05-01-2006, 01:08 AM
Err...plan to extent Putra LRT to Subang Jaya...

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/National/20060104084000/Article/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/National/trans.jpg

• Extending the Putra LRT rail service to Subang Jaya and the Star LRT service to Old Klang Road.

Ahem...lets keep our fingers crossed... (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/National/20060104084000/Article/index_html)


anything short of reaching usj will not solve the traffic woe here, that mentioned plan can only achieve load balancing for KTM Komuter passengers at best, bcos most usjrian will still need to stuck at the bottleneck till their legs crossed before they can reach sj .. :p ... yayaya they can offer feeder bus, but how effective it is now?

if talking about $ or ROI sense, puchong and usj are a much bigger catchment area.

Teeque
05-01-2006, 01:24 AM
http://www.rapidkl.com.my/o_200buses.htm

Mr Westra encouraged passengers to contact RAPID KL with their feedback. “I personally review all the messages to our customer hotline every Monday morning,” he said. “I welcome any and all feedback I can get from our customers. I need that feedback to know where we need to improve.”

Customers can contact RAPID KL via its toll free hotline at 1-800-388-228 or by email at
suggest@rapidkl.com.my


So, folks, let's get it frm the horse's mouth and mail him.

isarahim
05-01-2006, 04:07 AM
They should also consider to extend towards damansara, around TEsco/Ikea area. Then it will be real worthwhile to see more people using it thus reducing vehicle traffic.

This will certainly demand a new type of stations with proper design so as to allow shopping.

Otherwise only seasoned Batu-cave kavali-bearers will have the necessary strength and endurance to beat those steep concrete stairs with anything more than a few loaves of bread...

xaviers
05-01-2006, 08:22 AM
The RM 3.968 billion savings from the above three sources should be channeled:
• To build a 10km extension for Kelana Jaya Line (formerly known as Putra LRT) from its Subang Depot to Sunway, Subang Jaya and USJ, catering for a population of 300,000. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• To extend Seri Petaling Line (formerly known as STAR LRT) from Seri Petaling to Puchong to cater for another 200,000 people. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• To extend Ampang Line (formerly known as STAR LRT) to the Greater Cheras areas (including parts of Selangor), catering for 500,000 people. (Cost: RM 600 million).
• To increase the number of LRT coaches, feeder buses and parking spaces around LRT stations by four fold. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• (The cost of the original Putra and STAR LRTs were RM 2 billion and RM 3.5 billion respectively.)
• To add 3,000 buses, each at a cost of RM 200,000, to create a Bus Rapid Transit System in the Klang Valley, modeling after the success story of Brazil’s Curitiba. (Cost: RM 600 million)
• To invest the remaining RM 968 million into the management of a world class integrated public transportation system in Kuala Lumpur and other major cities in the country.


Is RM600 million the magic number ? Not too sure about the estimates.

orchipalar
05-01-2006, 10:39 AM
if talking about $ or ROI sense, puchong and usj are a much bigger catchment area.Err...sorry to digress...Subang is NOT any catchment area...BUT true to most parts of PUCHONG on the other hand is shifting n sinking... :p

AllUrban
05-01-2006, 05:28 PM
Where does puchong and sunway fits in ? I think they should join the two system up. ie. subang jaya can go straight to bukit jalil too.

Good question...

Idea 1:

A future LRT for Subang Jaya could connect from the Subang Depot (construct a new Subang/Glenmarie Station), and then travel down to Subang Jaya.

There route would then cross the Federal Highway and run along the rail tracks until Jalan Tujuan. This would allow for a connection with the KTM Subang Jaya station area (Subang Jaya Station).

At Jalan Tujuan, the route would then turn down and backwards towards the NPE. At the NPE this LRT could run between the two sides of the NPE, along the monsoon drain, from Jalan Tujuan over to the new 3C complex.

The monsoon drain area is wide enough for the support columns for an LRT. A station could be constructed at Jalan Jengka (Jengka Station? Subang Jaya Selatan?) to serve SS14, 15, 17, and 18.

After the 3C complex, the LRT could turn towards the KESAS highway, pass by Sunway and Lagoon Perdana...and ultimately to the Puchong area (IOI Mall would be a good hub).

To connect Sunway Pyramid to this LRT, the pink monorail should be expanded (two-way service, two tracks) and there should be a walkway connecting to Sunway Pyramid Phase 2

Option two:

Tram service network linking USJ to Subang Jaya and Puchong. One route along Jalan Jengka, from Subang Jaya KTM through SS14 (to Kewajipan) to Bandar Sunway.

Second route from Bandar Sunway to Puchong via USJ. This route passes by the back route of Summit, through the industrial area, and uses that future link bridge to connect to Puchong (but the link bridge will be for transit only)

Third route services USJ only, from Summit to MPSJ to USJ10 and 9 and 14 and back to Summit.

Tram routes, using new technology vehicles, are very effective at encouraging people to use public transit, calming traffic, and moving passengers...

But none of this should be happening unless transit is already in place...meaning a bus route should be placed to get passengers using the transit.

AllUrban
05-01-2006, 05:38 PM
Which one, which one, which one, would I choose?

Future LRT extensions need technology. Every line in KL is using different technology. All have advantages and disadvantages....

If you were choosing which technology to use for LRT extensions, which would you prefer, the STAR or PUTRA?

Operation: STAR requires a driver, PUTRA is automatic

Power technology: STAR has simple, commonly used 3rd rail power technology, PUTRA has complicated, uncommon linear induction system used in only 4 cities around the world (Toronto, Vancouver, Detroit, KL)

Capacity: STAR can be expanded to 6 car trains at present, PUTRA can be expanded to 4-car trains at present

Problems: STAR trains make horrible vibrations when trains enter the stations, while PUTRA trains squeal loudly when turning

Construction: STAR extension from Bukit Jalil to Subang Jaya is approx 15 kms and will run in a route along the KESAS Highway (probably connect via Sunway), PUTRA extension from Subang Depot to Subang Jaya is approx 5 kms and would have to run a very complicated route

Have fun debating :)

kwchang
05-01-2006, 11:37 PM
Have you tried taking the Star to KL from Bkt Jalil? It is a long journey my friend, a whole hour no less, if I remember correctly. Putra it should be for SJ/USJ. Whatever the service, there must be stations in Subang Jaya AND USJ. As rightly said somewhere, the bulk of the traffic is from USJ. There is a much bigger land area and much larger population in USJ. Puchong needs the LRT as well.

As for trams, I disagree. Trams run on tracks on the existing roads mixed with normal traffic. With Malaysian kiasu drivers, you think the tram has any chance of commuting passengers faster?

My suggestion is to put up a good monorail system within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong that carries passengers to the KTM station at SJ. Increase the carriages for the KTM Komuter and that should complete the link to KL. The monorail can also support travel within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong - for shoppers at Pyramid, IOI, Carrefour, Parade and Tesco.

lbn
06-01-2006, 07:22 AM
My suggestion is to put up a good monorail system within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong that carries passengers to the KTM station at SJ. Increase the carriages for the KTM Komuter and that should complete the link to KL. The monorail can also support travel within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong - for shoppers at Pyramid, IOI, Carrefour, Parade and Tesco.

Yes, I fully support Chang's suggestion. Any transport using the road won't work. It has to be aerial. I, for one if given a choice won't drive to commute to KL. I've already emailed this suggestion to rapidkl. Hopefully more of you do the same. :D

xaviers
06-01-2006, 09:26 AM
aiyo... we just coming out of a construction phase for the roads and we might be going into another one...

tempuadua
08-01-2006, 10:42 AM
Have you tried taking the Star to KL from Bkt Jalil? It is a long journey my friend, a whole hour no less, if I remember correctly. Putra it should be for SJ/USJ. Whatever the service, there must be stations in Subang Jaya AND USJ. As rightly said somewhere, the bulk of the traffic is from USJ. There is a much bigger land area and much larger population in USJ. Puchong needs the LRT as well.

As for trams, I disagree. Trams run on tracks on the existing roads mixed with normal traffic. With Malaysian kiasu drivers, you think the tram has any chance of commuting passengers faster?

My suggestion is to put up a good monorail system within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong that carries passengers to the KTM station at SJ. Increase the carriages for the KTM Komuter and that should complete the link to KL. The monorail can also support travel within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong - for shoppers at Pyramid, IOI, Carrefour, Parade and Tesco.
Correction: I always take the LRT from Sri Petaling to Hang Tuah Station, and it only take about 25 minutes!!

kwchang
08-01-2006, 11:36 PM
Thanks for the correction - I took that train only once from Bkt Jalil to Puduraya and it sure felt like an hour's journey. Maybe I factored in my walk to the bus stop at Kota Raya and then a long wait for the bus. I was late that morning.

AllUrban
09-01-2006, 10:52 AM
As for trams, I disagree. Trams run on tracks on the existing roads mixed with normal traffic. With Malaysian kiasu drivers, you think the tram has any chance of commuting passengers faster?

My suggestion is to put up a good monorail system within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong that carries passengers to the KTM station at SJ. Increase the carriages for the KTM Komuter and that should complete the link to KL. The monorail can also support travel within SJ/USJ/Sunway/Puchong - for shoppers at Pyramid, IOI, Carrefour, Parade and Tesco.

Rapid KL seems to be planning extensions of the PUTRA LRT to Subang Jaya (probably near the KTM station), and STAR to Old Klang Road (possibly serving Bandar Sunway and Kampung Dato Harun)...that leaves out much of Subang Jaya, USJ, and Puchong. I dont believe that RapidKL will build 12 lines as they claim they are planning..it is an unrealistic idea for KL anyways.

Trams can carry as many people as an elevated system. The trick is to find ways to exclude drivers from competing with the trams. That is why many cities in North America are running trams in rights-of-way that are restricted so that other traffic cannot interfere...it is a good intermediate service.

That is why I suggest Jalan Jengka would be a good route to start a tram service. Jengka has 3 lanes and it is not jammed as much as other routes because it ends at the KESAS highway. It also connects with the Subang Jaya KTM. I suggest that the middle lanes of Jalan Jengka be reserved for public transit now, and trams in the future.

Tram lines can be built at 1/3 the cost of elevated transit, so you can build 3 times more lines. Elevated transit is a huge investment. It requires a lot of money...escalators, lifts, fewer stations, more feeder buses, etc...and we need public transit now...

It is time for Malaysians to accept that the car cannot be YDPA forever

Cheers, m

pcyeoh
15-04-2006, 09:50 AM
A short time ago, (June or July) someone posted information about government plans for an LRT extension into Subang Jaya.

If anyone has more information about these plans, please contact me or reply to this post. I am very interested in Public Transport planning and design. I think that these areas of planning absolutely must have community involvement, feedback and approval.

Regards

Mr. M

-It's not public transport without the PUBLIC!-

So, AllUrban, that someone in the form of KL Infrastructure Group Bhd is here to reply you though 3 months late. Read on.


KLIG proposes four new lines for monorail system
By LEONG SHEN-LI
The Star
Saturday April 15, 2006

KUALA LUMPUR: KL Infrastructure Group Bhd, the company which operates the monorail here, has submitted a proposal to construct four new lines in the Klang Valley with a total length of 71km.

KLIG chairman Datuk Ahmad Sa’adi said the project was estimated to cost RM4.5bil and would take six years to complete.

“We presented this proposal to the Government two months ago,” he said yesterday.

Ahmad said the four new lines were the 21km Petaling Jaya line, 18km Subang Jaya line, 19km Sungai Buloh line and 13km Cheras line. The four lines will have 47 stations.

The Sungai Buloh line will directly link up with the existing KL Monorail system at the Titiwangsa station while the Subang Jaya line will link up with the existing system at the Tun Sambanthan station in Brickfields.

All four lines will integrate with the existing light rail transit (LRT) and the KTM Komuter rail systems.

“We expect the new lines to ferry some 400,000 passengers per day,” he said.

He added that when the entire network was completed, the existing lines would also experience an increase in usage because more people would find it convenient to use public transport.

“We should see another 320,000 passengers using the entire rail system daily on top of the current 340,000 passengers,'' he said.

He said this would help the Government achieve the Ninth Malaysia Plan target of a 30:70 public to private transport ratio for the Klang Valley.

Ahmad said under the proposal, MTrans Holdings Sdn Bhd, the holding company of KLIG, would manufacture 62 new monorail trains for the new lines.

“The new trains will have four cars each and carry at least 400 people,” he said.


http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/4/15/nation/13967752&sec=nation

Note
Get a copy of The Star and refer to the map to understand how Putra, STAR, PRT and the KTM will link to this 4 new lines proposed extensions. With all this in place, you can leave home without it. And "it" I mean your car. But all this will happen during the 9th Malaysian Plan.

CCY
15-04-2006, 10:26 AM
Just hope that Subang Jaya includes USJ n beyond also. Otherwise it will be another lppl again. We will still face the same bottleneck at kesas crossing. Just hope that they have come to their senses to realise this unknown usj....

yvonnefoong
15-04-2006, 11:14 AM
Is it possible for Subang folks to build our own tram and get approval from the city council?

tempuadua
15-04-2006, 11:17 AM
Just hope that Subang Jaya includes USJ n beyond also. Otherwise it will be another lppl again. We will still face the same bottleneck at kesas crossing. Just hope that they have come to their senses to realise this unknown usj....
Half of the traffic jam in USJ, Puchong Jaya, Sunway and Kinrara will be solved if only they extend the Sri Petaling LRT to Puchong Jaya (preferably near IOI Mall) and Sunway Pyramid!

pucman
15-04-2006, 11:41 AM
Another mess ! We don't need so many companies offering so many different lines in the same area.

Why don't they look at singapore MRT,

1. you pay only once
2. you don't cross busy roads to go to another system
3. it is cheap
4. it is the same type of trains

Anybody been to masjid jamek ? You have to cross a very busy road just to reach the other side of the platform ! They don't even care to build a overhead bridge ?

A few motorcyclists decided to go through the red lights when I was there. :eek:

pucman
15-04-2006, 11:44 AM
Half of the traffic jam in USJ, Puchong Jaya, Sunway and Kinrara will be solved if only they extend the Sri Petaling LRT to Puchong Jaya (preferably near IOI Mall) and Sunway Pyramid!

They are talking about the monorail which is different from the STAR lrt. Are they going to have a different network again ? :eek:

AllUrban
15-04-2006, 12:00 PM
So, AllUrban, that someone in the form of KL Infrastructure Group Bhd is here to reply you though 3 months late. Read on.


KLIG proposes four new lines for monorail system
By LEONG SHEN-LI
The Star
Saturday April 15, 2006

KUALA LUMPUR: KL Infrastructure Group Bhd, the company which operates the monorail here, has submitted a proposal to construct four new lines in the Klang Valley with a total length of 71km.

KLIG chairman Datuk Ahmad Sa’adi said the project was estimated to cost RM4.5bil and would take six years to complete.

“We expect the new lines to ferry some 400,000 passengers per day,” he said.

“The new trains will have four cars each and carry at least 400 people,” he said.


http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/4/15/nation/13967752&sec=nation

Note
Get a copy of The Star and refer to the map to understand how Putra, STAR, PRT and the KTM will link to this 4 new lines proposed extensions. With all this in place, you can leave home without it. And "it" I mean your car. But all this will happen during the 9th Malaysian Plan.

PC, thanks for the information...but I dont think this plan is much to hope for :(

Look at the numbers:
400,000 estimated passengers per day on 4 lines (the actual numbers will of course depend on the location of the lines...building them in hydro corridors and along highways will not encourage passengers)

should mean about 100,000 passengers per day on each line

divide by 18 hours (assume 18 hours of service each day, 6am-12am)

and the grand total is an average of 5555 passenger movements per hour on each line!

A monorail is not needed to move 5000 passengers per hour...all that is needed is a lot of fast moving buses!

This is an RM4.5 bn joke being played on Malaysian taxpayers...most of that money is going into construction, not service.

A full scale heavy line like the Singapore MRT is supposed to be able to move as many as 40,000 passengers per hour. An elevated LRT like the ones that rapidKL already has move, on average, 15,000-20,000 passengers per hour

Rapid buses in their own roads, or trams, can move 5000-10000 passengers per hour.

Rapid buses and trams dont need elevated stations, they dont need elevated tracks, they dont need all that concrete...the same 71 km network could be constructed for 1/3-1/2 the cost if the planners were looking at trams or rapid buses.

Sigh.....
Why do they want to waste money????

Cheers, m

AllUrban
15-04-2006, 12:05 PM
while the Subang Jaya line will link up with the existing system at the Tun Sambanthan station in Brickfields.

sound like this is the mystery line that was in the DBKL plan...

I expect it will follow Old Klang Rd.

I would support this line (which would follow a route very similar to the KTM komuter line) if it encourages the KTM komuter to improve service...oh, and if it goes to midvalley, which clearly needs a conection to the monorail service as well as the KTM komuter line....

Cheers, m

orchipalar
15-04-2006, 12:07 PM
Sigh.....Why do they want to waste money????

Cheers, mErr...there is no such words in the malaysian dictionary...

Vel come to this beautiful n surebolehland AllUrban:)...buses only make certain numbers of people richer...BUT less poorer malaysian laymen n women like Orchi n PCYeoh...

Ahem...on the other hand...'Future' LRT projects would also make a certain numbers of people MUCH richer...BUT PLENTY of poorer malaysian laymen n women like Orchi...Thamby...n Joe Gomez...

AllUrban
15-04-2006, 12:14 PM
Err...there is no such words in the malaysian dictionary...

Vel come to this beautiful n surebolehland AllUrban:)...buses only make certain numbers of people richer...BUT less poorer malaysians laymen n women like Orchi n PCYeoh...

Ahem...on the other hand...'Future' LRT projects would also make a certain numbers of people MUCH richer...BUT PLENTY of poorer malaysians laymen n women like Orchi...Thamby...n Joe Gomez...

Well, it makes sense that KL Infrastructure G would propose a project involving huge levels of built infrastructure.

Hehehhehehe

KLIG is making the monorail through their ownership of monorail malaysia...and also making the buses through their ownership of MTrans...

Either way they benefit.....

I really hope that the rapidKL changes will make a huge difference and open up people's eyes to the value of simpler rapid bus and tram projects...

only 2-3 months more for SJ to wait :)

cheers, m

pcyeoh
15-04-2006, 02:27 PM
Monorails such as PUTRA and STAR started off as a 'crono-privatisation' projects given to companies who know nuts about mass public transport. As espected, sure enough they were hit by the 1998 financial crisis. Went crying to big daddy and the Government bailed them out. The two services merged and now known as KL Infrastructure Group Bhd. This company will build the 4 new lines by bulldozing through land that will be acquired very cheaply be it private land or stateland all in the name of National Land Code 1966 Section 4 and Section 8. When the project is completed, sure bet with you that eventually it will be privatised once again back to the same cronies who will again screw it up big time by milking off its cash and come back crying to daddy once again to bail them out. This cycle will repeat and again may be this time 8 more lines are proposed and ........ er er even I get tired going in circles once again. This is the Malaysian economy where you build the bridge to bring it down again or the monorail to place it in the hands of those who know how to derail it only.

AllUrban
15-04-2006, 02:52 PM
That's why I support simpler projects, not megaprojects.

There are no transit projects that are simpler and more effective than light rail.

Today's trams are not the trams of the past...

The old designs were one car service, the newest ones have two cars,

The old designs had steps, the new ones have flat, low floor operation.

The old designs operated in mixed traffic so they were slower, the new designs are restricted from traffic and operate faster.

Today's trams and light rail are very similar to the technology used for the Kelana Jaya (PUTRA) line. They have very similar passenger capacity.

BUT:
they are a lot cheaper...a ground level light rail system does not require lifts, elevated track, escalators, or elevated stations.
AND
they are more flexible...a ground level light rail system can operate on ground level away from traffic, in restricted lanes on the road, or elevated, or undergound, or in mixed traffic if needed.

Check out the attached pictures to see what I mean.

If these lines are built as modern trams (light rail system) they could operate at ground level in the open areas, fly over intersections in the dense areas like Subang and USJ, and operate elevated in KL. The same 71km could be built for RM1bn.

So why waste the money?

Cheers, m

pcyeoh
16-04-2006, 09:09 AM
So, AllUrban, that someone in the form of KL Infrastructure Group Bhd is here to reply you though 3 months late. Read on.


KLIG proposes four new lines for monorail system
By LEONG SHEN-LI
The Star
Saturday April 15, 2006

KUALA LUMPUR: KL Infrastructure Group Bhd, the company which operates the monorail here, has submitted a proposal to construct four new lines in the Klang Valley with a total length of 71km.

KLIG chairman Datuk Ahmad Sa’adi said the project was estimated to cost RM4.5bil and would take six years to complete.

“We presented this proposal to the Government two months ago,” he said yesterday.

Ahmad said the four new lines were the 21km Petaling Jaya line, 18km Subang Jaya line, 19km Sungai Buloh line and 13km Cheras line. The four lines will have 47 stations.


And here is the map I found in the Business Times.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/pcyeoh/klinfraLRT.jpg

And here is more news extracted from The New Sunday Times this morning

RM10b to expand Klang Valley’s light rail system
16 Apr 2006
By Minderjeet Kaur


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KUALA LUMPUR: The Government will spend RM10 billion to improve the light rail system network in the Klang Valley over the next five years.

The job has been given to state-owned Syarikat Prasarana Negara Bhd, which will start by identifying routes in densely-populated areas.

The biggest chunk, RM4.5 billion, will go towards building a 30km line running through these areas.

Shaipudin Shah Harun, the CEO of the company, said: "We are looking at densely-populated areas, including Puchong, Kepong and Cheras."

Money will also be spent to buy hundreds of light rail coaches.

Shaipudin said the new line would connect residential areas with commercial districts.

"This is one way of encouraging people to leave their cars at home and use public transport, especially to and from their workplace."

Shaipudin said the company will hire a consultant to conduct a feasibility study.

It will also spend another RM2 billion to extend the existing Putra line to Subang Jaya and the Star line to the Old Klang Road.

"To attract more train users, the existing rail services will be extended by 10 to 15km," he said.

An additional RM2 billion will go towards purchasing more light rail coaches to accommodate the increasing demand along the Putra LRT routes.

Currently, 190,000 people take the Putra LRT daily, exceeding its capacity by 40 per cent.

According to the company, 180,000 people commute by bus, and another 120,000 by Star LRT, which is under-utilised by 66 per cent.

Company statistics show that about 1.5 million people still choose to drive to the city centre daily.

Shaipudin said part of the RM10 billion would come under a Ninth Malaysia Plan allocation while the rest would be raised from the capital market.

Under the 9MP, the Government has allocated 15.9 per cent or RM30 billion of the budget to upgrade ports, airports and the public transport system.

"The allocation is adequate to upgrade the public transport system and furthermore, through the capital market, we will raise money for the company."

The state-owned company, which has been given the job of streamlining the public transport infrastructure, owns both Kuala Lumpur’s light rail transit companies and buses under the name RapidKL.

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Sunday/National/20060416081249/Article/index_html

pcyeoh
16-04-2006, 09:24 AM
I studied the proposed 4 lines and we at SJ/USJ will stand to gain the most.

Using the Petaling Jaya line, I can go shopping at

a) KLCC by switching to Putra at Kelana Jaya
b) Bandar Utama, the Curve without changing line
c) Mid Valley Megamall by switching to KTM Komuter at Subang Jaya
d) Berjaya Times Square by switching to STAR LRT. At Times Square, I
will have access to the PRT Monorail

In fact I can swtich to all the services here in USJ

expat1609
16-04-2006, 09:50 AM
Another mess ! We don't need so many companies offering so many different lines in the same area.

.......
why not lah, more companies, more "gifts" to be collected.....and as malaysians are the best organized in the world, how can you call it a mess? :p

pucman
16-04-2006, 04:02 PM
why not lah, more companies, more "gifts" to be collected.....and as malaysians are the best organized in the world, how can you call it a mess? :p

How can you call it not a mess. The whole map looks like a spider web. The disadvantages are:

1. If it is confusing even to locals, how much more confusing it is to tourists ?

2. Sometimes, we have to pay several fares if the destination is not on the same line. This is not economical in terms of money and time spend in buying several tickets.

3. Jumping from one transport system to another involve quite a distance walking walking (unlike singapore where it is under the same roof). I even have to walk through a very busy road (which nearly killed me when one motorcyclists decided to go through red light in masjid jamid :mad: ) just to go to the other system.

Why can't they follow the singapore model where it is one efficient and simple system ?

You don't need so many train systems within the same locale.

idolfan
16-04-2006, 04:20 PM
Why can't they follow the singapore model where it is one efficient and simple system ?



any system as long as its used in Singapore , be it education, healthcare, transport, waste management, town planning and local govt, "hygienoc" drinking water, will not be used here becoz we worry they will charge us royalty for copying their "efficient" systems .. ;) :p

pcyeoh
16-04-2006, 05:09 PM
The only reason why we never adopted any of the Singaporean's best practices is because Singapore has never appeared in our Malaysian planners' "Lawatan sambil belajar" itinerary.

tempuadua
16-04-2006, 06:32 PM
They are talking about the monorail which is different from the STAR lrt. Are they going to have a different network again ? :eek:
This is exactly the roots of the problem i.e. sending a boy (monorail) to do a man's (LRT) job! Monorail can only carry two railcars at one time whereas LRT can carry up to 6 railcars/coaches. I occassionally take the monorail at Imbi station (TImes Square) at around 6.00 p.m. to go to KL Sentral and most of the time the monorail will be very very very packed with passenggers that I usually only manage to get the 4th or 5th monorails (which will be around 6.40 pm). To solve the transportation problems of well populated areas like USJ, Subang Jaya, Puchong, why don't they use LRT! Monorail is definitely not the solutions. LRT or commuter train could be the possible solutions.

AllUrban
16-04-2006, 07:02 PM
An additional RM2 billion will go towards purchasing more light rail coaches to accommodate the increasing demand along the Putra LRT routes.

Currently, 190,000 people take the Putra LRT daily, exceeding its capacity by 40 per cent.

According to the company, 180,000 people commute by bus, and another 120,000 by Star LRT, which is under-utilised by 66 per cent.Star LRT is under utilized by 66 Percent...and they think that extending it will solve the problem....but it wont...the problem is poor planning and not enough demand.

Ok, one way to improve the use of the STAR line would be to actually have feeder services to more stations...another would be to build lines that connect to places that people want to go...look at Sri Petaling Station...nowhere near Sri Petaling...

Most of the stations on the Sri Petaling line are under utilized because they are in the middle of nowhere...and the most underutilized PUTRA stations are also the ones in the middle of nowhere...if you have nobody living near a station, and no feeder bus service, then no one is going to use the service!

Putra LRT is overcapacity by 40 percent, and they think that extending it will solve the problem??????? They should have bought the extra coaches years ago...

They are making the wrong connection...you cannot build mass transit in the middle of dense areas and hope that people will use the service. You build mass transit where people are already using the bus service.

If rapidKL wants to look at routes, look at the new Bas Utama routes and see which ones actually are over capacity.

Interesting tho...this plan sort of compares to the first plan I came up with, when I first looked at the rail transit map.

(see attached pic)

Also interesting is that KLIG and SPNB are going to compete to see who gets to build the new lines for the Klang Valley...and I honestly think that KLIG has a disadvantage, despite the fact that they have a buatan malaysia product.

Cheers, m

CS Chua
16-04-2006, 08:47 PM
Guys, all these plans are good. But exactly where are these tracks in SJ? The details are not there. Is it near the houses in SS14? I do not want to live 10 meters from a monorail track or any other track. Maybe it is time to sell the house.

AllUrban
17-04-2006, 09:27 AM
Guys, all these plans are good. But exactly where are these tracks in SJ? The details are not there. Is it near the houses in SS14? I do not want to live 10 meters from a monorail track or any other track. Maybe it is time to sell the house.Looks to me like the SJ tracks will follow a route of Jalan Tujuan, KTM Subang Jaya, Jalan Jengka (perhaps), KESAS highway, Summit, Kewajipan.

Id rather live next to a monorail than a flyover :p At least you are not living beside the KL Sentral monorail station :p

Cheers, m

ghj
17-04-2006, 01:13 PM
A short time ago, (June or July) someone posted information about government plans for an LRT extension into Subang Jaya.

If anyone has more information about these plans, please contact me or reply to this post. I am very interested in Public Transport planning and design. I think that these areas of planning absolutely must have community involvement, feedback and approval.

Regards

Mr. M

-It's not public transport without the PUBLIC!-

This would be a good suggestion as it makes travelling around Subang area easier. :cool:

i remember those were the days when i'm really not sure about the public transportation to go around USJ1 area for a job interview :confused:

I end up taking commuter and landed myself next to Carrefour, not knowing how to go to USJ1 next.

I asked around but nobody knows :(

In the end i had to pay a fixed amount of RM10 in order to go USJ1. The story doesn't end there, i had another interview after that in another place... I have no idea how am I going to get to the Subang Komuter from that area as there is no bus station and very few taxi(s).

Well, practically i waited under the hot sun, at the road side, with dust "poops from vehicles all flying over my face @@ my worst day

ants want to bite my feet @@ :eek:

actually i've tried to stop many taxi(s) and many refuse to go to Subang Commuter because according to them..... that area is tad JAM during that hour... :eek:

i actually waited for abuot an hour... :eek: at the roadside.... with all the sun shine, dust on my face, ants, and carrying my heavy portfolio and theses..... just to get to another interview... :(

:cool: Thus, it will be good if there is LRT services in Subang, as i believe there will be feeder bus service as well..

pucman
17-04-2006, 03:46 PM
This is exactly the roots of the problem i.e. sending a boy (monorail) to do a man's (LRT) job! Monorail can only carry two railcars at one time .

A while back, I thought they were going to extend the STAR LRt and the Putra LRt ? What happened to make them change their mind to monorail ? :(

AllUrban
17-04-2006, 05:55 PM
A while back, I thought they were going to extend the STAR LRt and the Putra LRt ? What happened to make them change their mind to monorail ? :(No one changed their mind...

KLIG (KL Infrastructure Group) is the company that runs the KL Monorail.
SPNB (Syarikat Prasarana Negara Bhd.) is the company that runs the rapidKL buses and LRT service.

They are different companies. that is why the fun now begins...

Both SPNB and KLIG have different ideas about how the rail future of KL should look.

KLIG wants the new lines to be monorail, SPNB wants the new lines to be LRT.

The KLIG and SPNB plans have some of the same ideas in common, like a line from the STAR LRT to Cheras...but KLIG is planning from Miharja LRT, and SPNB is planning a line from Bandar Tasik Selatan. Both companies also have ideas for a line in Sentul but the KLIG plan is a much further extension.

The differences are here in our area...KLIG planning this Petaling Jaya monorail line (basically a monorail version of the LDP plus a route in Subang Jaya/USJ), while SPNB is proposing an LRT line from Kerinchi up to Damansara, following the Kerinchi/Sprint Link. Also, SPNB planning to extend the Sri Petaling line to Old Klang Rd in Bandar Sunway (PJS6) and KLIG planning a line following Old Klang rd. past Midvalley and into KL.

So...there are actually 8 proposed lines, not just the 4 monorail lines.

I dont think all 8 will be approved, of course.

Id personally like to see the Subang-Damansara (KLIG) line and the KL-Damansara (SPNB) line approved. I would have an LRT running from Brickfields to Subang Jaya (Summit), instead of a monorail. I would not extend the Sri Petaling LRT at this point, unless I were extending it north back to KL.

I would also wait on planning lines until this rapidKL bus restructuring is finished. Then, I could use data from the bas utama (trunk bus) routes so I would know what routes have a lot of demand. Then I would construct mass transit on those routes.

By the way...Im happy as long as these projects meet the following conditions:

1) They are planned properly, not just from a profit perspective, but from a service perspective
2) The planners give high levels of public consultation
3) The future planning in these areas is designed to encourage public transit uses
4) The planners dont waste money by putting LRT/Monorail lines in areas that dont currently have transit service
5) The planners ensure that the fares are affordable to the bus riding public.

Cheers, m

pucman
17-04-2006, 08:01 PM
No one changed their mind...

KLIG (KL Infrastructure Group) is the company that runs the KL Monorail.
SPNB (Syarikat Prasarana Negara Bhd.) is the company that runs the rapidKL buses and LRT service.


Cheers, m

The thing is that there is not enough land for both systems to operate in the same area for these high residential areas. Why can't the government step in to ensure an integrated system ? :(

AllUrban
17-04-2006, 08:18 PM
The thing is that there is not enough land for both systems to operate in the same area for these high residential areas. Why can't the government step in to ensure an integrated system ? :(Because the customers havent told them to...but I can say this quite confidently...if the public and the government and university people and the companies dont get involved together on these projects, history will just repeat itself.

OK, so we have two companies wanting to build elevated rail lines...and multiple bus companies running around the city...sounds like 15 years ago when STAR and PUTRA were running the show...now it is rapidKL (SPNB) vs. KLMonorail (KLIG).

The result of giving two companies their head and allowing them to build without any real coordination...two words...Masjid Jamek. We cannot forget the KLSentral monorail station either.

If the government and the public step in, and if KLIG can design a monorail that carries 15-20000 passengers per hour, and if the stations all have feeder bus service...and if SPNB and KLIG can cooperate to build systems that can work well together....then there is much to hope for in these proposals.

If not, things will go back to the same situation...government bailouts, taxpayers footing the bill.

As for the issue of space...well, one advantage of the monorail is that it can be built quite easily over the streets of the city...Look at the route of the monorail from Medan Tuanku to Chow Kit, or Maharajalela to Hang Tuah.

Compare this to the LRT, which only has one station (Bangsar) directly over a street...most of the stations are located away from the streets, or are located near expressways, not streets.

On the other hand, the monorail stations werent designed for feeder bus service...

all of these things have to be considered when designing the new infrastructure.

Cheers, m

clfoo
18-04-2006, 04:02 AM
in singapore the MRT fare is very affordable compare with their earning ... whereas in KL the LRT/Monorail fare seems to be on the high side.

Allurban, by any chance you have the breakdown comparison on average $/km for LRT, KTM kommuter and monorail fare? This can be a critical factor to gauge whether this transport mode really build for joe public or for some private pocket money.

pucman
18-04-2006, 02:42 PM
in singapore the MRT fare is very affordable compare with their earning ... whereas in KL the LRT/Monorail fare seems to be on the high side.

Allurban, by any chance you have the breakdown comparison on average $/km for LRT, KTM kommuter and monorail fare? This can be a critical factor to gauge whether this transport mode really build for joe public or for some private pocket money.

I remember that in Singapore, you can get around the whole singapore for less than 2.00.

Here, if you switch train system, you pay double. The main trouble is that it is not integrated.

patrick
18-04-2006, 03:25 PM
Dont know about you guys but I am just thankful that finally we are going to see the light at the end of the 'tunnel'. Fedup of driving to the various LRT stations and getting caught in traffic jams along the way. Not to mention the mass of uncivilized and retarded drivers on our road these days. And fedup with the extremely unreliable and slow KTM. Higher fare or otherwise, I just hope they will implement the project asap. I just cant wait to leave home without my car!

As for those who are worried that maybe the LRT line may be too close to their homes, consider that the LRT or Monorail isnt that noisy what. It's not like a steam train or such. Would you rather have jet planes flying over you? In any case, if you are really worried, tell me about it. Maybe I may consider buying over your property!

CS Chua
18-04-2006, 04:48 PM
Patrick wrote:
As for those who are worried that maybe the LRT line may be too close to their homes, consider that the LRT or Monorail isnt that noisy what. It's not like a steam train or such. Would you rather have jet planes flying over you? In any case, if you are really worried, tell me about it. Maybe I may consider buying over your property!

Good. One potential buyer!

The LRT may not be as noisy as a jet plane or a train but it is still noisy and definitely dusty. And it comes around every 10 minutes. I hope they run it along the main roads and Kesas Highway. I am not complaining about the LRT coming into SJ. In fact I am rejoicing. But knowing Malaysian companies and the local council, they do not always take the residents' interests into consideration when they design their plans. It is always money first. So I hope they will consider how their tracks affect nearby houses, in case they wish to take short-cuts.

JoeJaffar
18-04-2006, 05:48 PM
Hopefully the plan is approved, Monorail ke, LRT ke. With adequate parking spaces for park & ride facility. Presently, there's no benefit for me to use either the KTM @ Subang Jaya or Putra @ Kelana Jaya since it's already more than half the distance of my daily commute. USJ, or Puchong, is just right.

Teeque
18-04-2006, 07:16 PM
I hv a suggestion here. Hope this will benefit the community as well.

I propose that a Subang Public Transit Committee be set up and run by the community/residents together with the JKPs to assist/advise the authorities in the planning and implementation of the upcoming Public Transit development plan in Subang. Rope in our ADUN as the project advisor also as he plays an important role in our community and also is an excellent fundraiser. :)

This Committee should be headed by someone, preferably a Subang resident, who is a qualified expert in matters of public transit and can provide proposals/assistance for better planning and implementation of any public transit develpment in Subang. And I believe this person is the none other than the one who has been watching and following closely on this development here in our forum - AllUrban. Then, other committee members can be selected frm the residents who wants to take an active participation in our public transit development with the involvement of JKPs too.

As all residents here should hv a say abt how their township is being developed and in accordance to LA21, I believe Subang residents should hv an official voice and representation in this very important development here in Subang, which may affect all residents ultimately whether socially, physically or emotionally.

AllUrban
19-04-2006, 04:51 PM
Teeque, the idea of a Subang Public Transit Committee is a good one.

I think that SJ and USJ will be changed as new bus service and LRT or monorail service arrives...and I think that USJ and SJ residents should be part of those changes...it's our township after all.... :)

I would definitely like to be a member of this committee.

At the same time, I am not an expert nor am I professionally qualified (e.g. in Public Transport or engineering or planning)...I'm just an amateur with a strong interest in the topic.

Thanks for the vote of confidence tho.

Cheers, m

CS Chua
21-04-2006, 08:10 PM
I second this idea of a committee. We need to help ourselves. The various resident committees should be active in this committee as it affects their communities too.

AllUrban
22-04-2006, 04:44 PM
This letter in the Saturday NST (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Friday/Letters/20060421090317/Article/index_html) from Datuk Ahmad Sa’adi, Chairman KL Infrastructure Group Berhad, is quite interesting.

I am happy to see his statement that the KL Monorail system is capable of heavier operations. For example, the trains can in theory be extended to 6 cars capable of carrying 1,200 passengers per train or 18,000 passengers per hour. Similarly he says that the future system can start with 4 car operation and expand to 8 car operation.

However, before handing RM4.5 bn to the KLIG is it not right for the people of KL to ask for proof that the KL Monorail system is the most cost effective and flexible option. I would like to see rapidKL and KLIG competing to serve our needs. That is the way things should be.

KL Monorail system has disadvantages in 3 areas...meeting passenger needs, safety concerns, and proven track record of success. If KLIG can reduce these disadvantages, then by all means, they should try to compete to build the rail network of the future.

Meeting Passenger Needs...

the KL monorail system is the shortest, lowest capacity system operating in KL, with the lowest passengers movements per hour, poor integration with the other rail systems, and the highest fares per kilometer.

If KL Monorail is going to build 71 km of lines, will they make sure that the current fare system will be adapted to make it competitive? Will they improve the capacity and frequency of the trains? Will they build routes over the streets so that it will be easy to access the system?

Safety Record....

KL Monorail has had two accidents in the past which have led to injury of person. In addition, the KL Monorail system does not include a safety walkway between the rails, which is mandated in other systems such as the Las Vegas Monorail (see pic attached). In the event of a power failure or service stoppage, how will passengers exit the monorail trains? At least in the LRT the passengers can exit the train and walk safely between the tracks.

Proven Track Record of Success....

The 3 other forms of railway technology that are operating in the Klang Valley have been proven worldwide as well as in Malaysia. Third rail systems (as used on the Ampang/Sri Petaling Line), and Overhead Pantograph systems (as used on the KTM Komuter and KLIA trains) are recognized as successful, flexible, and cost effective examples of railway technology. The Linear Induction system (as used in the Kelana Jaya line) is also recognized.

The monorail system is not well-recognized and has many built in disadvantages. In addition, the current state of the KL Monorail line, with its safety, small capacity, and poor integration (for example, KL Sentral station) do not give me a lot of confidence in KLIG.

Finally, the claim that BRT or Tram systems are not effective for KL is a serious misconception. Elevation might be necessary for KL but it is possible in the suburban areas to run trams along the roads and at ground level

Monorails cannot be run at ground level. They must be elevated. Trams can run at ground level, above ground, or underground, or in mixed traffic if need be.

Remember, that most of the cost of this Monorail system will be going into the elevated construction and station construction. Trams and BRT have the lowest capital costs per kilometer and a properly designed tram system can move 10,000 passengers easily.

Well, those are my thoughts. As I said above, I would be happy to see KLIG implementing their monorail system if they make it worthwhile.

Cheers, m

ungkb
22-04-2006, 06:23 PM
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pucman
04-06-2006, 01:12 PM
The monorail system is not well-recognized and has many built in disadvantages. In addition, the current state of the KL Monorail line, with its safety, small capacity, and poor integration (for example, KL Sentral station) do not give me a lot of confidence in KLIG.



Has the government decide to abandon this monorail project :( and go for LRT instead :D ?

fabregas
05-06-2006, 06:03 PM
Hi, I need some advice.
If I were living in Bandar Bukit Puchong (beside Puchong Utama, end of LDP)and wanted to take a train/lrt to work in Sentral, would it be better to drive to the ERL station in Putra Jaya. Leave my car there (any free parking?) and take the ERL. Or should I take the LRT from Petaling station? Is parking at the stations safe? The ERL looks like a better option, as it goes thru less train stations. Any opinions?

AllUrban
05-06-2006, 07:21 PM
Hi, I need some advice.
If I were living in Bandar Bukit Puchong (beside Puchong Utama, end of LDP)and wanted to take a train/lrt to work in Sentral, would it be better to drive to the ERL station in Putra Jaya. Leave my car there (any free parking?) and take the ERL. Or should I take the LRT from Petaling station? Is parking at the stations safe? The ERL looks like a better option, as it goes thru less train stations. Any opinions?I would personally take the LRT from Sri Petaling station.

This is because the KLIA Transit (the non-express part of the ERL) also stops at Bandar Tasik Selatan station.

So you can go to Sri Petaling LRT (or Bukit Jalil) and take the LRT, then you can transfer to the KLIA Transit service at Bandar Tasik Selatan to take you to KL Sentral.

The cost of the KLIA Transit from KL Sentral to BTS is RM4.50. It is RM9.50 from KL Sentral to Putrajaya.

Also, you might want to see what happens when the restructured bus service is introduced to Puchong (this should happen by the end of June).

The restructured service offers a limited stop service (called bas utama) for RM2 which goes from the suburb (eg. Ampang Jaya) to a major hub (e.g. KLCC).

KL Sentral will be the hub for service reaching out to Subang, Puchong, Sri Petaling, and Petaling Jaya.

This thread (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=11861) gives you more information about the new bus service...or you can visit www.rapidkl.com.my and click on the picture of the bus on the left side.

Best of luck

Cheers, m

ungkb
05-06-2006, 07:38 PM
Hi, I need some advice.
If I were living in Bandar Bukit Puchong (beside Puchong Utama, end of LDP)and wanted to take a train/lrt to work in Sentral, would it be better to drive to the ERL station in Putra Jaya. Leave my car there (any free parking?) and take the ERL. Or should I take the LRT from Petaling station? Is parking at the stations safe? The ERL looks like a better option, as it goes thru less train stations. Any opinions?

Hi Fabregas,

If you want to take the bus. I suggest the #68 minibus from Puchong to Sunway Pyramid then change to #900B to Kelana Jaya LRT then from there you take the LRT to KL Sentral.

<u>The Fare:</u>
1. Minibus #68 - <u>70</u>cents &
2. RapidKL #900B - <u>50</u>cents

kwchang
05-06-2006, 10:12 PM
I think fabregas' concern is TIME. Any suggestion that requires changes of trains or multiple bus transit services will make the trip so much longer.

By the way, the car park in Putrajaya is usually full because a lot of the residents also take the ERL to Sentral. The carpark at Putrajaya is not fenced, hence it could be exposed to petty thefts. Sorry, have not used that station and have no concrete data - just my observations

fabregas
05-06-2006, 10:36 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I am more concern about time but of course $ is a second consideration as well. I checked out the KLIA express website and it quoted RM190 per month (60 trips or 31 days which ever runs out first. So about Rm3 - 4 per trip) or RM50 per week (14 trips or 7 days which ever runs out first). I think this is pretty reasonable. The train comes every 30 minutes. And they quoted it takes 20 minutes from Putrajaya to Sentral. The traffic to Putrajaya might be lighter. (?) Thanks for the tip about the car park being full - something to note.

newpdg003
27-08-2006, 04:21 PM
And here is the map I found in the Business Times.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/pcyeoh/klinfraLRT.jpg

And here is more news extracted from The New Sunday Times this morning

RM10b to expand Klang Valley’s light rail system
16 Apr 2006
By Minderjeet Kaur


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KUALA LUMPUR: The Government will spend RM10 billion to improve the light rail system network in the Klang Valley over the next five years.

The job has been given to state-owned Syarikat Prasarana Negara Bhd, which will start by identifying routes in densely-populated areas.

The biggest chunk, RM4.5 billion, will go towards building a 30km line running through these areas.

Shaipudin Shah Harun, the CEO of the company, said: "We are looking at densely-populated areas, including Puchong, Kepong and Cheras."

Money will also be spent to buy hundreds of light rail coaches.

Shaipudin said the new line would connect residential areas with commercial districts.

"This is one way of encouraging people to leave their cars at home and use public transport, especially to and from their workplace."

Shaipudin said the company will hire a consultant to conduct a feasibility study.

It will also spend another RM2 billion to extend the existing Putra line to Subang Jaya and the Star line to the Old Klang Road.

"To attract more train users, the existing rail services will be extended by 10 to 15km," he said.

An additional RM2 billion will go towards purchasing more light rail coaches to accommodate the increasing demand along the Putra LRT routes.

Currently, 190,000 people take the Putra LRT daily, exceeding its capacity by 40 per cent.

According to the company, 180,000 people commute by bus, and another 120,000 by Star LRT, which is under-utilised by 66 per cent.

Company statistics show that about 1.5 million people still choose to drive to the city centre daily.

Shaipudin said part of the RM10 billion would come under a Ninth Malaysia Plan allocation while the rest would be raised from the capital market.

Under the 9MP, the Government has allocated 15.9 per cent or RM30 billion of the budget to upgrade ports, airports and the public transport system.

"The allocation is adequate to upgrade the public transport system and furthermore, through the capital market, we will raise money for the company."

The state-owned company, which has been given the job of streamlining the public transport infrastructure, owns both Kuala Lumpur’s light rail transit companies and buses under the name RapidKL.

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Sunday/National/20060416081249/Article/index_html

I read newspaper about Penang Monorail project has been approved recently. So what about the four new lines for monorail system serve in Klang Valley was proposed by KLIG? Does KLIG proposal the four new lines already approved and ready to build the track? Because never hear any about this news in newspaper and really wondering that whether KLIG group manage to complete the four new lines in 6 years?

I personally welcome the new monorail system will serve in Klang Valley, especially I stay in Mutiara Damansara and hear that must has one monorail station in around Tesco/Ikea area. Also, I heard the Kelana Jaya line plan to expand another line to Kepong which will pass through Mutiara Damansara area. The current public transport I can take from Ikano free bus to Kelana Jaya station, or take No.99 Metrobus. Don’t really understand why No.99 Metrobus doesn’t pass through the nearest LRT station i.e. Taman Bahagia or Kelana Jaya and the RapidKL still haven’t have the service in this area. Of course I hope the new monorail system will approve as fast as possible in order to cope with the high demand of public transport users.

Raikonen
27-08-2006, 07:13 PM
Why cant there be a integrate LRT system running thru rather than having Putra, Star, Moon...etc...Too many fingers wanna dip into the pies?? :mad: Pls take a lawatan sambil belajar to Singapura and fill those empty brains of those planners pls...

Sugarfree
27-08-2006, 07:56 PM
Why cant there be a integrate LRT system running thru rather than having Putra, Star, Moon...etc...Too many fingers wanna dip into the pies?? :mad: Pls take a lawatan sambil belajar to Singapura and fill those empty brains of those planners pls...Can't agree with you more, mate. If these so called planners had half a brain, I'd be crying tears of joys. :mad:

pucman
27-08-2006, 10:06 PM
Why cant there be a integrate LRT system running thru rather than having Putra, Star, Moon...etc...Too many fingers wanna dip into the pies?? :mad: Pls take a lawatan sambil belajar to Singapura and fill those empty brains of those planners pls...

When there are more than one crony involved, that's why there are Putra, Star, Monorail, Sun etc.

I thought that when Rapid took over the LRT, all lines will be integrated but sadly you still have to pay multiple fares just to switch lines. :( :rolleyes:

The LRT was designed not for the betterment of the public like Singapore.

Instead of extending the putra or star line, they come up with this Monorail project which means you have to pay possibly 3 multiple fares to get to KL. :(

Perhaps the USJ/Puchong people can do a petition !

ungkb
30-08-2006, 10:14 AM
As reported in The Star (frontpage & online).

Source - http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/8/30/nation/15276661&sec=nation&focus=1

:)

AllUrban
30-08-2006, 11:30 AM
Um...what KL needs for the LRT system is 2 ring lines (outer and inner) and lines radiating out of the city centre like spokes of a wheel.

Im sorry to say but this isnt going to help much to bring transit to where it is needed.

I dont think we really all know what a mess this is going to be :p

First, the "new" line

That graphic that the Star posted/printed...is very misleading...

To run a line directly from Kota Damansara to Cheras...they will have a problem running through the city centre.

They will have to run along the same corridor that STAR LRT uses ...past Masjid Jamek and Jalan Pudu....

So how to do this? 3 ways.

1) A separate underground line that will run from Bank Negara past Masjid Jamek and along Jalan Pudu to Jalan Chan Sow Lin

2) A separate above ground line that will run from Bank Negara past Masjid Jamek and along Jalan Pudu to Jalan Chan Sow Lin....somehow this line will have to be built above the existing STAR Line

3) Integrate the new line into the existing STAR line guideway at Bank Negara and Jalan Chan Sow Lin, so that the new line uses the STAR line route in the city

Option 1 and 2 allow new technology to be used but the construction costs will be horribly high (elevated and/or underground construction in the city....eek)

Option 2 will ruin the appearance of the city

Option 3 will require that the new line be the same technology as the STAR line...the oldest technology that needs the most update...plus the fact that it will ruin the appearance of the city (think Siam Square station in Bangkok) and it will cost a lot of money and delay trains.

Second, the "extensions"

I recommend that SJ and USJ lobby for this extension to be built as a NEW line, not as a simple extension of the existing line. The benefit is that this will allow an extension from Lembah Subang up to Damansara in the future...which is desperately needed. However, the sacrifice is that there would likely be a change of trains at Lembah Subang.

As for the extension to Puchong...tell me why people in Puchong are going to use the LRT line to get to the city centre...not likely. The place where a line is needed is in the city...along Jalan Klang Lama and through Taman OUG and Seri Petaling...not along the KESAS highway.

Third, the "forgotten ones"

If transit is not built in places where people live, then people will not use transit. If you have to drive out of the way for some distance just to get to transit, what is to stop you from continuing on to the city using your car?

What is really needed is more reliable KTM service, a KTM extension from Sentul north to Batu Caves, a STAR line extension north from Sentul with branches to Sg. Buloh and Titiwangsa/Wangsa Maju....

Now that will make a difference!

And how about some cheaper things that will make a huge difference...

a) expand the city shuttle service
b) construct a busway running along the MRR I and II
c) construct a busway or bus-only lanes on the Federal Highway out to Klang, the Sg. Besi Highway to Kajang, and the LDP to Putrajaya, as well as other major roads in the Klang Valley such as Jalan Ipoh, Jalan Sultan Ismail, the Karak Highway, Jalan Kewajipan, Jalan Cheras, etc.

cheers, m

balitan
30-08-2006, 11:53 AM
any idea where the proposed LRT station will be in USJ area ??

thanks

AllUrban
30-08-2006, 01:14 PM
I can guess but dont quite know what thinking the planners will be using.

Normally station development will be in areas where there is significant development of commercial, residential and office...trip generators. Another point is that there should be significant space for connecting transit

In USJ, that would guarantee that there could/should be a station at Summit, as well as one along Kewajipan at USJ 8 (beside the police station). After that I dont know where but Rhythm Ave. might be a good place for a station if the development is completed.

I think that USj/SJ people should be concerned if they are planning a route without public meetings.

Cheers, m

patrick
30-08-2006, 06:51 PM
I can guess but dont quite know what thinking the planners will be using.

Normally station development will be in areas where there is significant development of commercial, residential and office...trip generators. Another point is that there should be significant space for connecting transit....


How did we end up with the stn at Abdullah Hukum? Obviously it doesnt meet your criteria. Hence, the authorities may not see things in the same perspective!

newpdg003
30-08-2006, 07:14 PM
Um...what KL needs for the LRT system is 2 ring lines (outer and inner) and lines radiating out of the city centre like spokes of a wheel.

Im sorry to say but this isnt going to help much to bring transit to where it is needed.

I dont think we really all know what a mess this is going to be :p

First, the "new" line

That graphic that the Star posted/printed...is very misleading...

To run a line directly from Kota Damansara to Cheras...they will have a problem running through the city centre.

They will have to run along the same corridor that STAR LRT uses ...past Masjid Jamek and Jalan Pudu....

So how to do this? 3 ways.

1) A separate underground line that will run from Bank Negara past Masjid Jamek and along Jalan Pudu to Jalan Chan Sow Lin

2) A separate above ground line that will run from Bank Negara past Masjid Jamek and along Jalan Pudu to Jalan Chan Sow Lin....somehow this line will have to be built above the existing STAR Line

3) Integrate the new line into the existing STAR line guideway at Bank Negara and Jalan Chan Sow Lin, so that the new line uses the STAR line route in the city

Option 1 and 2 allow new technology to be used but the construction costs will be horribly high (elevated and/or underground construction in the city....eek)

Option 2 will ruin the appearance of the city

Option 3 will require that the new line be the same technology as the STAR line...the oldest technology that needs the most update...plus the fact that it will ruin the appearance of the city (think Siam Square station in Bangkok) and it will cost a lot of money and delay trains.

Second, the "extensions"

I recommend that SJ and USJ lobby for this extension to be built as a NEW line, not as a simple extension of the existing line. The benefit is that this will allow an extension from Lembah Subang up to Damansara in the future...which is desperately needed. However, the sacrifice is that there would likely be a change of trains at Lembah Subang.

As for the extension to Puchong...tell me why people in Puchong are going to use the LRT line to get to the city centre...not likely. The place where a line is needed is in the city...along Jalan Klang Lama and through Taman OUG and Seri Petaling...not along the KESAS highway.

Third, the "forgotten ones"

If transit is not built in places where people live, then people will not use transit. If you have to drive out of the way for some distance just to get to transit, what is to stop you from continuing on to the city using your car?

What is really needed is more reliable KTM service, a KTM extension from Sentul north to Batu Caves, a STAR line extension north from Sentul with branches to Sg. Buloh and Titiwangsa/Wangsa Maju....

Now that will make a difference!

And how about some cheaper things that will make a huge difference...

a) expand the city shuttle service
b) construct a busway running along the MRR I and II
c) construct a busway or bus-only lanes on the Federal Highway out to Klang, the Sg. Besi Highway to Kajang, and the LDP to Putrajaya, as well as other major roads in the Klang Valley such as Jalan Ipoh, Jalan Sultan Ismail, the Karak Highway, Jalan Kewajipan, Jalan Cheras, etc.

cheers, m

Just wondering does new line use the new coarch train or using the former Putra LRT coarch?

joker2107
30-08-2006, 10:10 PM
Um...what KL needs for the LRT system is 2 ring lines (outer and inner) and lines radiating out of the city centre like spokes of a wheel.

Im sorry to say but this isnt going to help much to bring transit to where it is needed.

I dont think we really all know what a mess this is going to be :p

spot on, allurban. you are all urban, all right!

my visions of a feasible fixed line transportation system are :
1. one seamless integrated system.
2. ring lines - for the size of the usj in the west, kepong/sg buluh in the north west, gombak in the north east, ampang in the east, cheras/kajang in the south, 2 ring lines may not be quite sufficient, tho it is better than none for the time being. in the longer run, smaller inter district ring lines should be considered. its really not too far from usj to cheras - nobody wud want to go into the city centre, change trains (and having to cross the busy, flood prone street at that) just to bridge this distance.
3. rings lines must have spokes radiating inwards towards the city centres, ie pj, kl with critical interchanges located AWAY from the most busy of places. masjid jamek is a real bad choice for a major interchange.
4. scrape the komuter. its a sick joke. :mad: :( can they convert the komuter line to be used by star/putra? it may be of a different guage, but surely modern technology can modify existing carriages to accomodate this discrepancy, cant it?
5. employ me as consultant, foc. and dont forget allurban and pcyeoh too.

selamat merdeka!

fabregas
31-08-2006, 01:32 AM
Allurban, can you explain why people in Puchong will not welcome and use the LRT?

pucman
31-08-2006, 09:31 AM
Allurban, can you explain why people in Puchong will not welcome and use the LRT?

I think because he hasn't been to Puchong for 10 years and still think it is underdeveloped. :rolleyes:

Currently, a lot of Puchong folks drive to bukit jalil/sri petaling Lrt to go to KL.

I suggest Allurban make a survey first before coming to such wild conclusion.

I read somewhere that the LRT will be build next to IOI mall. So you had better buy houses next to it.

AllUrban
31-08-2006, 03:53 PM
How did we end up with the stn at Abdullah Hukum? Obviously it doesnt meet your criteria. Hence, the authorities may not see things in the same perspective!Yes, the planners/authorities arent following the normal criteria. Alot of the transit is built in empty places, cheaply, with little potential for growth. The putraLRT runs along hydro corridors and is a pt equivalent of the federal highway.

Yes, Abdullah Hukum is an interesting example, except for one thing...there is a plan for a giant bridge across the Klang River, to meet with the planned monorail station and give people LRT access (of sorts) to MidValley Megamall.

The big question is, why isnt the bridge in place yet? Maybe it will be, when the Gardens at MidValley open. In the meantime, no one is calling for it :p

The best example of good planning can be seen on the monorail, and the star line, actually. The monorail stretch from Jalan Imbi to Titiwangsa is simply packed because the thing runs along the major streets and meets the major trip generators. Similarly, the STAR line from Bank Negara to Chan Sow Lin is also heavily used.

Cheers, m

Nic_of_Time
31-08-2006, 04:02 PM
In NST yesterday. (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Wednesday/Frontpage/20060830074034/Article/index_html)
PUTRAJAYA: Some RM10 billion will be spent to improve the public transport system and persuade 40 per cent of motorists in Klang Valley to leave their cars at home.
Over the next five years, a light rail line connecting Kota Damansara, Damansara Utama and Cheras to the city centre will be built.

Also, the Putra LRT line will be extended to cover the highly populated Subang Jaya while the Star LRT would ply Sri Petaling and Puchong areas. Where do you think the LRT in Subang Jaya should end up. I hope it will end up in USJ. Do we SJ-USJ residents have a say on this. Perhaps our community should participate in helping Putra-LRT in influencing their choice to avoid mistakes and grumbles from residents.

E.g. If they decide to terminate in around Carrefour, that would be a real waste of funds.

If Star LRT is to extend to Puchong, why not join up at USJ to make it a loop. This will defininitely be more effective for us to travel to Puchong and surrounding areas.

Perhaps a monorail should be built around SJ-USJ as feed to the intended LRT.

What are your views on this.

AllUrban
31-08-2006, 04:03 PM
I think because he hasn't been to Puchong for 10 years and still think it is underdeveloped. :rolleyes:

Currently, a lot of Puchong folks drive to bukit jalil/sri petaling Lrt to go to KL.

I suggest Allurban make a survey first before coming to such wild conclusion.

I read somewhere that the LRT will be build next to IOI mall. So you had better buy houses next to it.The LRT route is not finalized yet. However, I expect that it will follow along the KESAS highway from Seri Petaling Station as far as Jalan Puchong. As far as I can see, it will only get as far as Puchong Jaya at the moment.

If the LRT follows Jalan Puchong into Puchong Jaya, then there will be demand and higher growth potential. If the LRT follows the KESAS highway, and then presumably the LDP, there will be little demand and less growth potential.

There is a need for LRT from Puchong to KL. However it should not be an extension of the current LRT. Puchong folks deserve a direct line to KL. I think there should be a new line from Puchong Jaya to KL via Taman OUG, Seri Petaling (west side), Bikit Indah, Midvalley, and Brickfields.

It could follow Jalan Puchong, KESAS, Jalan Awam, Jalan Tun Sambanthan, to finish near Pasar Seni.

There could also be a future extension southwest to Bandar Puchong (LDP area).

I also believe that the extension to Subang Jaya should be a new line, because of similar potential for extension...further south into USJ, north to Damansara, and west to Glenmarie and Shah Alam.

Cheers, m

ps. pucman, 10 years ago I was in my last year of secondary school. :rolleyes: And I may be young but I know this topic well. :D Like I said, Puchong folks deserve a direct line to KL. This is because transit planning is not about how many people will use the LRT now. It is about how many people will use the LRT in 20 years. :) Good planning should bring the people to the LRT, not the other way around. m

AllUrban
31-08-2006, 04:19 PM
4. scrape the komuter. its a sick joke. :mad: :( can they convert the komuter line to be used by star/putra? it may be of a different guage, but surely modern technology can modify existing carriages to accomodate this discrepancy, cant it?The STARAmpang line has many sections that are "at grade" (running at ground level) and these were built on an old rail line. It would probably have been the 1m gauge line used by KTM. So yes, it is possible.

Joker2107, actually KTM Komuter should be improved, not scrapped. It has the fundamentals of a very good system. What KTM Komuter needs are more reliable service, more lines, and more express service, eg. Klang, Shah Alam, Subang Jaya, KL.

Also, to avoid delays and interference from other trains, KTM has to build a new rail link (just like they have built the North-South Highway Central Link) to allow freights to bypass KL. In fact, this line could easily run along the same route as the NSC Link.

KTM has to move their service yards out of Sentul and extend komuter service from Sentul to Batu Caves. This is more important than extending the rawang line to Tg. Malim.

With the double tracking KTM can also look at faster, more frequent train service which will lead to reduced delays for the Komuter. KTM needs to double track all of the rail across the country.

Cheers, m

patrick
31-08-2006, 06:43 PM
Joker2107, actually KTM Komuter should be improved, not scrapped. It has the fundamentals of a very good system. What KTM Komuter needs are more reliable service, more lines, and more express service, eg. Klang, Shah Alam, Subang Jaya, KL.

Cheers, m

Agree with AllUrban. I really think crabs of KTM for its extreme unreliability but in all fairness, it does serve a purpose. I think it does serve the Klang Valley fringes such as Klang, Seremban etc. Otherwise those staying there and working in KL will face the lack of a better public transport.

pucman
31-08-2006, 07:23 PM
.

:D Like I said, Puchong folks deserve a direct line to KL. m

If you remember, there was an earlier plan for a monorail system around subang jaya, puchong area which is not integrated nicely with the rest.

This was obviously scrapped by the govt because of their excuse that petrol has gone up that wiped the savings. So they are going for a cheaper alternative.

Imagine we have to pay a possible maximum 4 different fares to get from subang to KL. :eek:

Monorail Subang/puchong --> Putra --> Star --> Monorail KL.

I would prefer to have less number of system, better still to have one system just like MRT singapore.

Have you tried to switching train from Star --> Putra near masjid jamik ? You have to brave heavy traffic and rain sometimes and walking quite a distance.

We don't want another different system with the said inconveniences.

A direct line will surely be given to another different crony. :(

joker2107
31-08-2006, 10:45 PM
Joker2107, actually KTM Komuter should be improved, not scrapped. It has the fundamentals of a very good system. What KTM Komuter needs are more reliable service, more lines, and more express service, eg. Klang, Shah Alam, Subang Jaya, KL.

thats just what i mean. your description of what ktm komuter should be is what star lrt is already. despite being tech savvy enuf, i had hell of a problem using the ticketing machine the one and only time i used the komuter, not to mention the queue behind me who missed the train while waiting for others like me who were fumbling with the ticketing machine. during this ride i was also drenched by a leaky aircond.
as i mentioned, perhaps star lrt could find a way to adapt to the rails of ktm to achieve the same level of service they have now.
having multiple systems and operators will also screw up the integration process. and pricing strategies - the single most important element which makes the system a cost efficient mass transport system.

kwchang
31-08-2006, 11:38 PM
I thought they are already moving into a single system? Did not the Govt take over Star and Putra? With RapidKL in the pocket, it should evolve into the entity that provides single ticketting trips at least.

pucman
31-08-2006, 11:58 PM
I thought they are already moving into a single system? Did not the Govt take over Star and Putra? With RapidKL in the pocket, it should evolve into the entity that provides single ticketting trips at least.

I took the LRT every day since several months ago. When I switched from Star to Putra at masjid jamek just to hop one lousy stop, I have to fork out another 2.00 (almost). :eek:

I don't know why they still have this double ticketing system since it is the same company. :mad:

Teeque
01-09-2006, 04:42 AM
....I don't know why they still have this double ticketing system since it is the same company. :mad:
Same company but 2 different systems.
Touch n Go was to be the one card charge system to integrate them but as TnG makes money by charging commission on fares collected, the cost is passed on to consumers and resulting in higher fares ultimately.

The ills of privatisation: Profits and revenue I take, losses and higher costs you tanggung. :confused:

Nic_of_Time
01-09-2006, 09:30 AM
actually KTM Komuter should be improved, not scrapped. It has the fundamentals of a very good system. What KTM Komuter needs are more reliable service, more lines, and more express service, eg. Klang, Shah Alam, Subang Jaya, KL.I noted that there is limited parking in the SJ commuter station. If one look around most of the Komunter parking lots during office hours, they are often fully parked. e.g. Kelana Jaya, Amcorp. How can the govt encourage the use of public transport when there is a lack of parking spaces for those who have to drive their cars to the nearest station.

I notice that there is a lot of land to the left of the entrance. MPSJ should level and tar that piece of land to provide more parking spaces there.

AllUrban
01-09-2006, 10:52 AM
Have you tried to switching train from Star --> Putra near masjid jamik ? You have to brave heavy traffic and rain sometimes and walking quite a distance.

We don't want another different system with the said inconveniences.

A direct line will surely be given to another different crony. :(Sadly, that is the effect of bad planning and bad operations.

Bad planning can be seen by the fact that the major hub in the city centre is so disconnected. Bad operations can be seen by the fact that almost no one knows how to get around the stations.

For example, that if you want to transfer between the STAR line bound for Sentul and the PUTRAKelana Jaya, you can transfer directly without crossing the street or getting wet. There is a covered walkway from the east exit, that leads to an entrance with (escalator, stairs, and lift) that will take you under the street to the PUTRAKelana Jaya Concourse.

As for cronies...yes, cronyism and politicking are a part of transit development plans. Look at Bangkok...one of the skytrain lines ends at Taksin bridge, but the elevated guideway crosses the river and goes for about 2 more km. The reason the line hasnt been extended (though the conrete is there) is because that district belongs to a different party.

Hmmm...could this be why the Seri Petaling line is being extended to Puchong, instead of into Seri Petaling? I heard that Seri Petaling is a DAP area....

Anyways, I only know about planning and routes. A rapid transit route along Jalan Puchong then along Jalan Klang Lama and Jalan Tun Sambanthan up to Pasar Seni is the most direct route for Puchong folks to the city centre. It can be LRT, monorail, busway, subway, whatever...so long as it is rapid transit.

The point is, if they build the extension of the LRT to Puchong Jaya, this is good....but not the best choice. That direct link will have to be built one day.

Cheers, m

ps. where I said Jalan Awam yesterday....I spelled it wrong, the street is Jalan Awan Besar. It extends from Jalan Klang Lama to the KESAS highway. m

AllUrban
01-09-2006, 10:58 AM
I noted that there is limited parking in the SJ commuter station. If one look around most of the Komunter parking lots during office hours, they are often fully parked. e.g. Kelana Jaya, Amcorp. How can the govt encourage the use of public transport when there is a lack of parking spaces for those who have to drive their cars to the nearest station.

I notice that there is a lot of land to the left of the entrance. MPSJ should level and tar that piece of land to provide more parking spaces there.Another option would be to build a large parking garage on that land. This garage could be built with the pillars for the PUTRA LRT extension as well...and they could construct the station right now, at the top level of the garage.

To access this garage, there could be an entrance at the end of Jalan Jengka, and a connecting lane to the garage. There could be an entrance to the station could be right across from Subang Parade, but the main entrance would be at the KTM station. Having this garage would also allow space for buses to loop into the KTM station.

The garage would be built closer to the KTM station, behind the new Saujana Condo, so the entrance and the garage would not interfere with their project.

Once that garage is built, the existing parking lot could be closed for constructing a new parking garage over that lot as well.

If you come to TT tonight, Ill show you the design Ive sketched out.

Cheers, m

CS Chua
01-09-2006, 11:36 AM
The garage would be built closer to the KTM station, behind the new Saujana Condo, so the entrance and the garage would not interfere with their project.
So it can be next to the Saujana Residency Condo? Hmmm...I wonder whether the residence there will like that? For Tiaraville and the other condos, it is good and OK as it is walking distance to the station but not living next to it. ;)

Nic_of_Time
01-09-2006, 12:56 PM
Another option would be to build a large parking garage on that land. This garage could be built with the pillars for the PUTRA LRT extension as well...and they could construct the station right now, at the top level of the garage. Sound like a good idea. Presumably the parking garage would be a multi-level one.

It can be used by those in the condos as well as there is usually have limited parking space within the condos. In the daytime, the KTM communters will park there and in the residents can use it after work.
There should be sufficient spaces to cater for the early birds and there would also be space later when the residents leave for their work elsewhere. Nowadays most of to leave for work around 6.30AM to escape the jam.

MPSJ would have to modify some the existing roads to ensure that it don't end like the Giant-Mydin hell hole.

Why don't you send your idea to MPSJ and hope.

CS Chua
01-09-2006, 01:16 PM
Since the LRT is confirmed coming into SJ/USJ, will the properties here be re-rated upwards? Are there any real estate agents or valuers among our forumers who can give us some ideas? If re-rated upwards, give us a ball park figure in terms of percentage. Thanks.

AllUrban
01-09-2006, 02:43 PM
So it can be next to the Saujana Residency Condo? Hmmm...I wonder whether the residence there will like that? For Tiaraville and the other condos, it is good and OK as it is walking distance to the station but not living next to it. ;)As far as I can tell, the Saujana Resy will be built over the old bus parking lot on the other side of Subang Parade. From what I can tell from the model, it will be occupying the space from where the current sales office is, all the way to the access road for the parking lot.

If a road is built around the Saujauna, as an extension of Jalan Jengka, it just might work....the lot/garage would be built closer to the KTM station, and it would be on a separate plot of land.

Therefore, it would be behind, but not right next to the saujana.

Another option would be to build one parking garage over the current parking lot and the entrance to the KTM, as well as the plot on the other side.

Cheers, m

patrick
01-09-2006, 07:26 PM
Have you tried to switching train from Star --> Putra near masjid jamik ? You have to brave heavy traffic and rain sometimes and walking quite a distance.

We don't want another different system with the said inconveniences.
. :(

Hey, you know there is an underground passage that allow passengers to change train without crossing the road?

joker2107
01-09-2006, 11:39 PM
I thought they are already moving into a single system? Did not the Govt take over Star and Putra? With RapidKL in the pocket, it should evolve into the entity that provides single ticketting trips at least.
mr moderator, i m glad u agree with me.
i cant for the life of me, imagine how this can happen when an interchange is a place where the passenger alights one train, checks out of the station, braves the elements to cross a busy street where the pedestrian crossing is invisible to motorists, and check into another entirely separate station to continue his journey!

i do not know the uk system or any other system besides s'pore's mrt. i vouch for the wonders of linking interchanges and stations vide underground mini-cities, at least in the critical areas.

i am very sure usj/sj dwellers wud not want to go into kl just to catch the trian to its backyard puchong.

kwchang
02-09-2006, 02:11 AM
In London, I believe you will find about 3 or 4 different lines intersect right under Picaddilly Circus. I think they were separately owned in the past but now under one company. They of course arrive in Picaddily at different levels but the different stations are interconnected by cleaverly connected pedestrian tunnels and escalators. You gotta get there to see the great design ... or come to my house and I show you the poster I bought from the London Underground poster shop.

totoro
02-09-2006, 02:18 AM
i foresee traffic jams due to construction for a few years to come... :(

well i've tried public transport (esp rail) in cities such as London, Paris, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Melbourne, Singapore and they all rock. some use integrated cashless systems like Octopus (Touch and Go) in HK for all types of public transport, but they tend to share the same problem - at the major exchanges, be prepared to walk a rather long distance to change lines.

PeterHng
02-09-2006, 02:19 AM
But Chang, recently I was in London and was taking virgin train to Manchester. The tube din really connect me there. I have to walk a distance on the road to get to that station from the tube station. Me forgot which station was it already but it was not really connected la.. but talking abt their underground, me takes my hats off for them for the well planned layout of few floors which I experienced them personally..

kwchang
02-09-2006, 02:32 AM
Peter, London has this unique policy that no intercity train lines transect the city. All intercity trains end at a periphery station. This is where the British did not integrate the underground Tube to railways. Most times, you need to walk from train stations to Tube stations. I still remember Victoria Station (no, they don't sell steak, like in KL) - passengers need to walk to the bus station and I think the same goes for the underground stations. No covered walkways - everyone walks in the rain and snow and you find luggage trollies all over the surface roads. A real mess sometimes ... and you'd think the British are very neat and tidy. No sir.

For those of you who complain about badly connected stations, go see it in London. Life is not perfect.

pucman
02-09-2006, 09:52 AM
Hey, you know there is an underground passage that allow passengers to change train without crossing the road?


Are you sure ? I don't see any at masjid jamik.

cskok8
02-09-2006, 10:09 AM
Some of the stations look like they are connected on the map. But in real life you have to walk long corridors, up and down stairs (no lift or escalator) to get to the other station. I guess we have learned well from the Brits.

patrick
02-09-2006, 06:24 PM
Are you sure ? I don't see any at masjid jamik.

Of course I am sure. I have used it so so many times! Buy me Teh tarik and I will show you around all the underground and above ground connnections etc etc, to all the LRT stations! ;-)

JoeJaffar
04-09-2006, 09:32 AM
the underpass from Putra line to Star line heading towards Sentul is to the right of the ticketing counter.

the connection at New York's main bus terminal near Times Square is also a long walk, in damp underpasses. and some of the subway entrances on the sidewalk aren't really the closest to the platforms, it might take quite a walk to get to. so, masjid jamek interchange isn't really that bad, but it could've been better.

patrick
04-09-2006, 02:03 PM
the underpass from Putra line to Star line heading towards Sentul is to the right of the ticketing counter.

the connection at New York's main bus terminal near Times Square is also a long walk, in damp underpasses. and some of the subway entrances on the sidewalk aren't really the closest to the platforms, it might take quite a walk to get to. so, masjid jamek interchange isn't really that bad, but it could've been better.

Thanks for clarifying Joe on the PUtra line connection.

And those who have been grumbling about having to walk, listen to Joe. He and Chang are both spot on. London and New York underground also means connections where you have to walk man! So is Washington DC too. So is Paris. Guess it happens all over the world. In otherwords, let us not grumble too much and ......stay happy!

And hey, like you folks I have bitched about the monorail connection at Sentral (or rather the non connection). Now hear this. I just found out that there is actually a mini bus shuttle that takes you to and from the monorail to /from Sentral free of charge! Look out for the red mini bus. At Sentral, the bus is parked on the ground floor together with all the Genting and KLCC buses. It will come out at the Lido theatre junction traffic light, turn right and stop right in front of the monorail station. Drop/pick up passengers then return to Sentral!

Ta!

xaviers
04-09-2006, 02:20 PM
Why must compare with the worse to comfort ourselves ?

Compare with the best ... and emulate .. that the only way we can improve.

Just like the last issue.."We Malaysians are not rude only isolated case only"... so no need to do anything.

JoeJaffar
04-09-2006, 03:25 PM
the current predicament could be due to various factors: political, commercial, personal egos. in fact, the physical constraint from the existing building, roads, hills etc could've affected the design and costing. but like i've written, it could've been better; RapidKL's, monorail and Komuter. especially if the political and personal egos can be taken out of the equation.

add to that the hot and humid weather in malaysia, and the fact that we malaysians love to drive even if it's only for 500m to the nearest destination or taking the lifts from ground to 1st floor meant that we tend abhor the slightest hint of walk-abouts.

ericchan
04-09-2006, 03:30 PM
Does anyone really know the actual route from Kelana Jeya to USJ and where are the stations to be put up?

orchipalar
04-09-2006, 03:31 PM
Err...LRT to USJ in 2010(4 years)? Impossible...to materialize!

1. Project financing/Land requirement feasibility study/Alineation/Procurement....1st to 2nd years.

2. Contract awards/Earth/Foundation works...utilities re-route/segments castings...2nd to 3rd years.

3. Contruction/Erection of columns/crossheads/launching of segments/stations/power installations...2nd to 4th years.

4. Testing/Commissioning...5th to 6th years.

So...earliest in between 5 years to 7 years excluding some foreseeable screwups...

AllUrban
04-09-2006, 04:03 PM
Err...LRT to USJ in 2010(4 years)? Impossible...to materialize!

1. Project financing/Land requirement feasibility study/Alineation/Procurement....1st to 2nd years.

So...earliest in between 5 years to 7 years excluding some foreseeable screwups...Methinks they already have step 1 nearly complete...or at least, they think they do.

Go to Carrefour or SubPar and take a look at the land to the west side of the TNB corridor, across the Federal Highway (in Glenmarie).

The hillsides have already been stripped and the land is already being terraced....something tells me they already have the routing planned....

At TT peter mentioned that the new route could follow the TNB corridor across the Federal, link with the Subang Jaya KTM station, then head east along the TNB Corridor/Federal Highway/KTM rail line to the other north-south TNB corridor...and then follow this corridor through SS12 (between the Sheraton Subang and the Holiday Villa). A wide curving detour at PJS 13 gives service to "Bandar Sunway" and then the route continues on to USJ1 and Goodyear Court 3.

Thus, this extension serves "Subang Jaya" (SS16 and SS12), "Bandar Sunway" (PJS13) and USJ (USJ1 and 8).

By avoiding the roads, they can build the LRT faster and for less money...the TNB corridor wont be the most effective route, because people will not access it...but it may work....if they have really, really good bus service to get people to the LRT line.

Cheers, m

orchipalar
04-09-2006, 04:13 PM
Methinks they already have step 1 nearly complete...or at least, they think they do.

Go to Carrefour or SubPar and take a look at the land to the west side of the TNB corridor, across the Federal Highway (in Glenmarie).

The hillsides have already been stripped and the land is already being terraced....something tells me they already have the routing planned....Err buddy:)...was thinking that's for TNB's near future extensions use only...

AllUrban
04-09-2006, 04:19 PM
Err buddy:)...was thinking that's for TNB's near future extensions use only...Sigh...I wish I knew.

What a joke...RM 10 bn promised and nothing is clear...Im so afraid of them repeating the mistakes of the past...bad planning, politics, bad deals, etc...leading to more bailouts

I used to think that I can rely on is good bus service...for now, it seems I can only rely on my own two feet.

Which is why more USJ forumers and local USJ and SJ people should come to the Bus Route Meeting on September 10.

Please, spread the word. The more rapidKL knows about what the community wants, the more likely it is that they will listen.

Cheers, m

orchipalar
04-09-2006, 04:27 PM
Sigh...I wish I knew.

What a joke...RM 10 bn promised and nothing is clear...Im so afraid of them repeating the mistakes of the past...bad planning, politics, bad deals, etc...leading to more bailoutsErr buddy...you still could be right about the alineation of the proposed LRT extension to SJ/USJ...ahem...in bolehland...anything can be possible...bad or worst...

Err...regarding the nos.(10 billions)...it is such an obvious beginning of the many 'election' campaigns n promises...to come...

Ahem...in fact the recent freaking budget is seen as being an early 'election' budget...

Ya know...indirectly telling voters that...'if you vote for the oppositions...you could be loosing out on good thangs that BN has planned for...bla bla bla...'

ericchan
04-09-2006, 04:30 PM
Hope there is a station anywhere in SS14/SS18 :)

AllUrban
04-09-2006, 05:02 PM
Ahem...in fact the recent freaking budget is seen as being an early 'election' budget...

Ya know...indirectly telling voters that...'if you vote for the oppositions...you could be loosing out on good thangs that BN has planned for...bla bla bla...'Yes, the classic election tactic.

In Canada, the Liberal government made a serious regimen of cuts in vital government spending from 1993.

However, from 1998-2005 the government consistently 'underestimated' the size of the budget surplus....and that money as not returned to the rakyat....to make up for those spending cuts will cost billions more.

During non-election years, that extra money went to pay down the national debt. During election years, the mysterious surpluses were used to pay for election goodies. One year, a 1.9bn surplus somehow became a 9.1 bn surplus....

At least Canadians wised up...but it took almost 13 years to do so.

Hehehehe foundation of a separate thread....how governments take advantage of the rakyat.

Anyways, Ive sent letters to the MOT, DAP, MCA, and newspapers saying clearly that LRT routes need to be on or along the main roads to be successful. I also sent another set of letters advocating Bus-Rapid Transit systems as a lower cost rapid-transit alternative to LRT.

Cheers, m

orchipalar
04-09-2006, 05:24 PM
Anyways, Ive sent letters to the MOT, DAP, MCA, and newspapers saying clearly that LRT routes need to be on or along the main roads to be successful. I also sent another set of letters advocating Bus-Rapid Transit systems as a lower cost rapid-transit alternative to LRT.Err buddy:)...kindly remember to send the same letters to KTM(Keretapi Tanah Melayu Berhad *yes they still deem it fit to use this name after 49 years of independence*)...

KTM is one of the main authorities in the implementation of all Raiway...LRT...n Monorail Transit systems.

patrick
04-09-2006, 05:30 PM
Anyways, Ive sent letters to the MOT, DAP, MCA, and newspapers saying clearly that LRT routes need to be on or along the main roads to be successful. I also sent another set of letters advocating Bus-Rapid Transit systems as a lower cost rapid-transit alternative to LRT.

Cheers, m

Lower cost..maybe. More efficient? Very doubtful, knowing the mentality of other Malaysian road users and the 3rd world maintenance ability of those running buses. Bus as an alternative to LRT? Sorry have to object. As a supplmentary mode, I can accept.

AllUrban
05-09-2006, 11:17 AM
Lower cost..maybe. More efficient? Very doubtful, knowing the mentality of other Malaysian road users and the 3rd world maintenance ability of those running buses. Bus as an alternative to LRT? Sorry have to object. As a supplmentary mode, I can accept.I also agree that busways should be supplementary to rail based rapid-transit...but we already have the rail and it isnt working well enough.

Besides, if they can build a busway system in Jakarta, a city of 10 million with traffic jams worse than KL, they can do it here.
Discussion of Transjakarta1 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=314069)
Discussion of Transjakarta2 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=177848&page=1)


Cheers, m

patrick
05-09-2006, 12:06 PM
I also agree that busways should be supplementary to rail based rapid-transit...but we already have the rail and it isnt working well enough.

Besides, if they can build a busway system in Jakarta, a city of 10 million with traffic jams worse than KL, they can do it here.
Discussion of Transjakarta1 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=314069)
Discussion of Transjakarta2 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=177848&page=1)


Cheers, m

Perhaps due to the size of Jakarta's population, the number of people who dont own vehicles and NEED to take the bus is already more than ample to sustain their bus system. Regardless of condition of bus or road. Just guessing.

Our rail not working? You mean KTM ? But LRT coming here will be ok, right?

AllUrban
05-09-2006, 03:21 PM
Perhaps due to the size of Jakarta's population, the number of people who dont own vehicles and NEED to take the bus is already more than ample to sustain their bus system. Regardless of condition of bus or road. Just guessing.Jakarta has lots and lots of buses, minibuses, tuk-tuk/rickshaws, and cars. There is a lot of public transport...but my point is, that Jakarta was able to remove lanes on its main streets for the busways...despite the jams...and it is working.

Its not rail, but it is a start to rapid transit. Jakarta already has 3 busway lines now, and another 5 are planned. Plus they have plans for 2 monorail lines. One of the lines is already under construction.


Our rail not working? You mean KTM ? But LRT coming here will be ok, right?Unfortunately, it cannot be said until the route plans and the number of stations are revealed...and this is why SJ and USJ have to lobby for great LRT....not just ok or good.

There are so many things to consider about the LRT...such as

*Is the LRT only meant to get people to/from the city centre of KL?

*Is the LRT meant to get people around Subang/USJ or to Kelana Jaya?

*Is the LRT going to have many stations (e.g. 2 each in SJ and USJ, 1 in Glenmarie, 1 in Bandar Sunway) resulting in a slower trip, or fewer stations (e.g. 1 station in each town) resulting in a faster trip?

*Is the LRT going to be built as an extension of the existing line...or as the first phase of a new line (e.g. a line from Puchong to Damansara via USJ/SJ)?

*Will the LRT route follow major roads (e.g. no further than 100m away from Pers. Kewajipan)?

*Will passengers be expected to come by foot, car, or bus?

*Will the LRT be worth the cost, and will it be successful, or will another bailout be needed in a few years?

Cheers, m

AllUrban
24-09-2006, 04:19 PM
This column including an interview with the director of SPNB (Syarikat Prasarana Negara Bhd.) describes some of the challenges that the company (and RapidKL) are facing in planning the routes for the new LRT expansion and extensions.

Putting the best route forward (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/9/24/focus/15517780&sec=focus)

Some of the information is very interesting.

Cheers, m

starrnorth88
25-09-2006, 02:00 AM
Planning for LRT is very simple - just have the stations where people are, not in some places where no people are.

Also have parking charges which are reasonable, not like the one in Taman jaya (exorbitant rates)

Also have ticket machine that can use more than one money note (in case those who do not know, if the ticket is more than RM2/-, you cannot put in 2 notes of RM1/-; you can only use one RM1/-, the balance must be in coins!!)

vsat
25-09-2006, 07:42 AM
Will the prices of the houses and apartments go up when this is completed? I'm a new owner of my apartment and don't have much knowledge on property value.

AllUrban
25-09-2006, 10:50 AM
Good planning:

*Put the transit route on a main road (above, below, or along).

*Encourage developers to construct apartment buildings, office buildings, and malls along this transit route....this leads to more human 'walk on' traffic, which means more profits and less subsidy.

*build transit in stages...main bus route, then Bus Rapid Transit, then LRT, then MRT. Let transit share the same road allowance to save costs. Focus on the customers, not the politics

*provide feeder bus service into the stations for those who choose to live/work/play off of the main transit routes

*Construct stations allowing for some expansion in the future as demand increases...because demand will increase.

*Choose a train type and design that is expandable and more versatile, allowing a choice of more bidders, (meaning lower prices through competition).

*Pay attention to solicited and unsolicited ideas...because you never know where good ideas may come from.

Or you can have bad planning....

*Put the transit route along a river, highway or TNB corridor (isolated from where people live and work).

*discourage apartment buildings, office buildings, and malls along the transit route....encourage more driving and less walking.

*Build LRT or MRT now, even though there is little demand. Trains are impressive and get votes. Dont try to save costs or make transit a part of the road environment. No way that roads should be shared with transit.

(all of these choices lead to less human 'walk on' traffic, which means less profits and more subsidy-paid by your taxes or government bailout-required).

*provide poor feeder bus service into the stations for those who choose to live/work/play off of the main transit routes

*Construct stations without allowing for some expansion in the future as demand increases...remember, the routes and stations where put in places where demand was not expected to increase.

*Choose a train type and design that is not expandable and less versatile, allowing less choice of bidders, (meaning higher costs due to lack of competition).

*Dont listen to suggestions from the public unless they are "solicited" because the public doesnt know what is good for them anyways.


Will the prices of the houses and apartments go up when this is completed? I'm a new owner of my apartment and don't have much knowledge on property value.VSAT, there was a property article in the star recently that stated that the resale and/or rental value of a property will increase after the LRT is completed. Of course, it will depend on how close the LRT property is...for a residential property it cannot be too close (e.g. less than 2 minutes walk to the lrt station) or too far away (e.g. more than 30 minutes walking distance away). For a commercial property it should be as close as possible.

During the construction phase you will probably face a reduction in value but the speculation should increase demand in your area which would then increase resale value.

Cheers, m

cskok8
25-09-2006, 10:59 AM
If your apartment is right next to the tracks (as when passengers can see into your bedroom) then the value will definitely drop. :D

AllUrban
25-09-2006, 11:14 AM
If your apartment is right next to the tracks (as when passengers can see into your bedroom) then the value will definitely drop. :Dor even worse, right next to the station.

heheheh definitely. With the KL Monorail you can see alot more of life in KL (http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/KLspecial02.html) than you'd expect :p

Cheers, m

AllUrban
05-10-2006, 11:16 AM
According to the article in the Star today, one stop on the Seri Petaling LRT extension will be at IOI Mall (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/10/5/central/15607741&sec=central).

According to the article, all of the preliminary plans, including 5 alternate routes, have a stop at IOI mall. I dont know if it would be the final stop on the line, or the final stop in the first phase of an extension.

Certainly there is a lot of space behind Tesco and IOI mall to allow for car parks and intensive development around the LRT stations. Also, now that the USJ link to Tesco has been approved, there is an opportunity for USJ residents to have easy access to both LRT extensions.

Cheers, m

pucman
05-10-2006, 12:10 PM
Certainly there is a lot of space behind Tesco and IOI mall to allow for car parks and intensive development around the LRT stations. Also, now that the USJ link to Tesco has been approved, there is an opportunity for USJ residents to have easy access to both LRT extensions.

Cheers, m

It seems that there is a huge space in between IOI and Tesco which is currently lived by illegal squatters :rolleyes: . This will most probably be the new LRT station.

Do I see a lot of protestors now from USJ folks regarding the USJ to Tesco link ? The new LRT will benefit USJ folks too.

My guess is that USJ and SJ are too land-starved to really provide a good LRT station for parking. So USJ folks may travel to puchong instead for LRT.

Where will they build the LRT stations in USJ and SJ ?

Raikonen
05-10-2006, 12:28 PM
Taman Subang Mewah area?

AllUrban
12-10-2006, 01:49 PM
Taman Subang Mewah area?if it happens, that would be a good spot...a very busy area....

Taman Mewah, up to the Giant/Mydin/Summit area, station between Giant and Summit, then towards Sunway pyramid, with a broad circle up to Subang Jaya......

But it may be unlikely to happen....

little bird tells me that SPNB is going to ink a deal to buy 22 new trains soon, for use on the Kelana Jaya line.

There is a further option for another 13 trains.

And get this...the deal is for 4 car trains...4 car trains on the Kelana Jaya line...hooray! :D

but that means there is no way the extension down to USJ wont go ahead....

well, maybe it will work...one can hope.

cheers, m

pucman
12-10-2006, 04:52 PM
little bird tells me that SPNB is going to ink a deal to buy 22 new trains soon, for use on the Kelana Jaya line.

There is a further option for another 13 trains.

And get this...the deal is for 4 car trains...4 car trains on the Kelana Jaya line...hooray! :D

but that means there is no way the extension down to USJ wont go ahead....

well, maybe it will work...one can hope.



I can confirm the article in the Sun today. It seems that we are too late.

But if you have internal connections in that company, you can suggest that the extra trains be extended elsewhere (maybe to damansara jaya/bandar utama) instead of subang jaya.

AllUrban
14-10-2006, 02:44 PM
I collected the following images of another site, or you can visit the Bombardier website directly.

It is interesting to see that this is a 4-car train, not two Kelana Jaya line trains coupled together.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/1_0/ml/5615/2_KLext-LR.jpg

The exterior. (heh, I think they photoshopped the second car and just pasted it two times, look closely)

http://www.bombardier.com/en/1_0/ml/5616/2_KLint-LR.jpg

Cheers, m

patrick
14-10-2006, 10:13 PM
I can confirm the article in the Sun today. It seems that we are too late.

But if you have internal connections in that company, you can suggest that the extra trains be extended elsewhere (maybe to damansara jaya/bandar utama) instead of subang jaya.

pucman, you crazy or what? Or did I misunderstood you? We have been fighting like hell for the LRT to come to Subang Jaya/USJ and now you are suggesting we divert the trains elsewhere instead?

pucman
14-10-2006, 10:23 PM
Or did I misunderstood you? We have been fighting like hell for the LRT to come to Subang Jaya/USJ and now you are suggesting we divert the trains elsewhere instead?

You misunderstood me. Did you not read the report by AllUrban who wrote to many newspapers ? The PUTRA LRT is not reliable due to its technology. :(

It is better to have the STAR LRT connected to Subang Jaya instead. :D

I think since you are the moderator, can we merge the 2 to 3 threads of LRT into one ? Then ALLurban won't have to duplicate his posts everytime. :(

patrick
14-10-2006, 11:02 PM
You misunderstood me. Did you not read the report by AllUrban who wrote to many newspapers ? The PUTRA LRT is not reliable due to its technology. :(

It is better to have the STAR LRT connected to Subang Jaya instead. :D

I think since you are the moderator, can we merge the 2 to 3 threads of LRT into one ? Then ALLurban won't have to duplicate his posts everytime. :(

Sorry...my apology for misunderstanding you. Just that we really have been pushing soooo..hard to bring the LRT here. In fact we have even already submitted a routing proposal to the Ministry of Transport recently.

pucman
14-10-2006, 11:30 PM
Sorry...my apology for misunderstanding you. Just that we really have been pushing soooo..hard to bring the LRT here. In fact we have even already submitted a routing proposal to the Ministry of Transport recently.

I think it's already too late to change any plans.

Let's hope that subang jaya/usj guys won't be stuck in the LRT in the morning rush due to breakdowns when the LRT finally goes there. :( If it does, then an LRT is the same as no LRT.

pucman
14-10-2006, 11:38 PM
Here's the letter that I sent to Malaysiakini which is not published yet. (slightly modified)

===========================
Go for more reliable LRT technology.
===========================

I agree with the author of 'LRT breakdown - rethinking the automated LRT'. We certainly do not need another LRT extension to Subang Jaya with all its inherent problems. Let us compare both LRT technology.

The PUTRA LRT uses a unique linear induction magnetic technology that is proprietary made by Bombardier. Whereas, the technology used in the STAR line is more 'open' standard and can be supplied by Siemens or Hitachi.

There has not been any major breakdowns in the STAR line since its inception. There were some minor interruptions but that was solved within an hour or so.

In terms of comfort level, I find that the STAR line provides more comfortable and more spacious seating as compared to the 'cramped' feeling of PUTRA LRT. The STAR LRT reminds me of Singapore MRT seating and standing arrangement.

Therefore, I do suggest that the government rethink their strategy to extend the PUTRA LRT to Subang Jaya. An alternative better solution would be to extend the Sri Petaling Line to Subang Jaya.

I would suggest the following extension route for the STAR LRT.

Sri Petaling --->
Bandar/Taman Kinrara ---->
Puchong Jaya ---->
Taipan/USJ 8 --->
Summit/USJ ---->
SS 15/KTM ---->
Sunway Pyramid ---->
Kelana Jaya

Kelana Jaya would serve as an interchange for the STAR and Putra LRT.

newpdg003
15-12-2006, 11:24 PM
Do everyone have the exact route for new LRT line, for instance, the extension from Sri Petaling to Puchong, from Kelana Jaya to Subang and the new line from Kota Damansara to Cheras?

Didn’t the government say will announce the exact route for future LRT service, including the number of station? And it is already end of the year still didn’t hear any news about this.

I read someone comment the current technology used in Putra LRT, what I think the problem is not because of the technology but is because of human mistake. First, no professional engineers good in controlling the train in the computer room. Hence, when the problem comes they don’t know how to overcome it. Secondly, the train never takes care probably and never do any diagnostics test to make sure the train work properly. I am sure everybody agrees with this point because the lousy condition in Putra LRT trains. So, I don’t think it works even the similar technology that Star LRT use in Putra LRT if the problem of the staff/worker’s attitude does not improve.

Sometime, the policy of RapidKL is very funny. Especially Putra and Star are under RapidKL Company, still the ticket from Putra LRT cannot use in Star LRT line. I have tried the monthly ticket I bough from Putra LRT that cannot use in Star LRT when I need to buy another ticket. It is quite doubt on the logical thinking produces from government’s company.

pepsi
17-12-2006, 08:58 PM
I am attaching a file that shows the DBKL structural plan which includes future LRT transit plans.

Sadly, there is not enough information...such as where the stations will be located, what type of LRT will be used, etc.

Basically there is a plan for a line to Cheras, extensions from Sentul Timur northwards, and a line to Damansara.

.
Any news re LRT link for Serdang area ?

AllUrban
20-12-2006, 08:49 AM
Any news re LRT link for Serdang area ?
Do everyone have the exact route for new LRT line, for instance, the extension from Sri Petaling to Puchong, from Kelana Jaya to Subang and the new line from Kota Damansara to Cheras?

Didn’t the government say will announce the exact route for future LRT service, including the number of station? And it is already end of the year still didn’t hear any news about this.

the only thing that I heard of was a public meeting for the D'sara Cheras line back in September.

The route planning for the extension of the Kelana Jaya line from Lembah Subang to USJ was supposed to be finished by October. The route planning for the Sri Petaling extension will include IOI mall (how good the connection will be is unknown).

Prasarana (SPNB) is keeping their cards tight to their chest...not a surprise given the way things went in the past...and did you see that article in the Star...

I dont really think that the LRT lines will be that great an improvement...if they continue with the same pattern...of doing what they think is right...without actually ever using public transit services...and throwing money away on poorly planned projects and bailouts.

Cheers, m

Teeque
21-12-2006, 01:50 AM
Proposed LRT stops in Subang Jaya

By LIM CHIA YING
The Star

THE Residents’ Committee (or JKP) of Subang Jaya have come up with eight proposed hubs should the Putra LRT line be connected to the township.

A meeting-cum-discussion was held together with Subang Jaya assemblyman Datuk Lee Hwa Beng, who has been appointed chairman for the Putra LRT line committee by the Subang Jaya Municipal Council (MPSJ).

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/18/central/16269511&sec=central

--------------------------------------------------------
any jkps can update us on the exact location of stops and hubs planned for SJ? very much appreciated.

AllUrban
21-12-2006, 09:13 AM
Congrats to the JKPs for the proposal...it's very good to let your ideas be known.

Let's see....

KTM Subang Jaya - yes, a very good location for a station...

I presume the line will then proceed along Jalan Jengka....

the Kewajipan roundabout that would benefit residents in SS14 and SS15 as well as students who attend several private colleges in the area - I think that if they were going to do this...the train would curve and run over the south side of the NPE in the SS14 area. I guess the old Millenium park could be the location for the station...exactly the opposite side of where the station is needed...

Sunway Pyramid and Lagoon Perdana - um...how would they be able to service Sunway Pyramid and Lagoon Perdana...the alignment for the track will not allow such a sharp turn...and where is there space in Bandar Sunway? Only in PJS 11...perhaps along Jalan Lagoon Barat? But how will they service Lagoon Perdana?

USJ 1 - again, a good idea for a station location...

Giant/Mydin hypermarkets - yes, sounds good

USJ 8 - again, a good location for a station

USJ 21 - again, a good location.

Hmmm...to make the service better and faster and more realistic, I would have the line skip Sunway Pyramid and Lagoon Perdana....it would be better to follow this alignment

KTM Subang Jaya --> Jalan Jengka/NPE (ex) roundabout --> KESAS --> Summit Subang --> USJ1 --> USJ8 --> USJ21

To get the service to the Lagoon Perdana area is relatively simple...a separate line, based on an expansion of the current monorail service, or a new monorail service, would be an effective solution.

this line would run:

*KTM Setia Jaya (interchange with KTM Komuter and RapidKL bus service)
*PJS8 (Sunway Mentari)
*Sunway Pyramid at Jalan Lagoon Timur,
*Sunway Hospital
*Lagoon Perdana
*New Taylor's Campus (?)
*USJ1 (interchange with RapidKL Kelana Jaya Line extension)
*IOI Mall (interchange with RapidKL Seri Petaling Line extension)

I think that this would be a very effective solution...and you know what, it could be done for less as well...a bus route, with two new flyovers (at the NPE and across the KESAS highway) would be enough...this line could operate as an express bus route for now, then rail in the future...it could also take some traffic off of the LDP

I think that extending the service to Sunway and Lagoon Perdana will be too costly...spending too much money and there isnt enough guarantee you can get the people off the roads...because how do they get from their houses to the stations? Feeder buses cannot get into every section of USJ and if people start driving, why wont they continue driving...

I personally think that it is better to build rapid transit lines along the roadways using rapid trams (like in Melbourne) or street level LRT. That way, people can step out of their communities and see rapid transit nearly at their door...but of course, Malaysian drivers (and many other drivers all over the world) dont want to share the road, and the government wants to spend money, so you end up with elevated, costly systems that eventually require government bailouts :p

Cheers, m

CS Chua
21-12-2006, 06:19 PM
I am really confused. I always thought that these trains travel fast but how could they do that if they have to navigate sharp curves, as suggested?

And what about the transmission lines near the KTM station? Would they not have to be moved? Or will the proposed station at KTM be opposite Mesiniaga so that the lines do not need to be moved. Then the LRT will travel along Jln Kewajipan but it will have to be pretty high as the Kelana Jaya link is there.

Perhaps somebody can draw a map. That will help a lot.

kwchang
21-12-2006, 11:43 PM
Please note that what Dato Lee HB mentioned in the papers is only his suggestions to the Govt with regards suggestions from the JKPs. As it is only a suggestion, nothing is yet agreed upon. The locations of the lines and stations are still everyone's guess and a map of the proposed locations need not represent what we will be getting.

starrnorth
22-12-2006, 03:13 AM
agree partly with Allurban that tram is more suitable for the sunway/sj/usj community. In fact more like a shuttle service connecting major points and housing estates. It is cheaper, more convenient for people to drop off / come in.

In fact it can be started straightaway. Some bus company just have to draw up a timetable, stick to it and one can see the success or not.

The problem is that sometime along the way, some bright executives start to cut back on the trip (because of low capacity on certain times) and that is where the failure is because you can never predict just who want to go where and when. If the frequency is not there, the shuttle will fail.

patrick
22-12-2006, 09:42 PM
Congrats to the JKPs for the proposal...it's very good to let your ideas be known.

Let's see....

KTM Subang Jaya - yes, a very good location for a station...

I presume the line will then proceed along Jalan Jengka....

the Kewajipan roundabout that would benefit residents in SS14 and SS15 as well as students who attend several private colleges in the area - I think that if they were going to do this...the train would curve and run over the south side of the NPE in the SS14 area. I guess the old Millenium park could be the location for the station...exactly the opposite side of where the station is needed...

Cheers, m


Response sent in by Datuk Lee:

This proposal was discussed by me with all the 5 JKP’s in SJ / USJ / Bandar Sunway. I recently chaired a meeting in MPSJ as the MPSJ Putra Line Sub-Committee Chairman where representatives from Syarikat Prasarana Negara Bhd were present. They are also quite agreeable to our proposed extension.

Basically, the logic for the extension are as follows :-

1) Take care of high human traffic in Sunway Pyramid.

2) Accomodate the residents of the roughly 4,000 apartments in Lagoon Perdana.

3) The line to go to USJ 1 to accommodate 5,000 low cost and medium costs apartments and also Mydin, Giant and Summit high human traffic.

4) The reason for priority for commercial areas like Sunway Pyramid, Summit, Subang Parade, Carrefour, etc are not only the high human traffic
but also the existing car parks available. Priority is also given to low and medium costs apartments as these people own less cars and will use
public transport like LRT.

Bye.

Yours In Service,

Lee Hwa Beng
State Assemblyman for Subang Jaya

ng
22-12-2006, 11:15 PM
4) The reason for priority for commercial areas like Sunway Pyramid, Summit, Subang Parade, Carrefour, etc are not only the high human traffic
but also the existing car parks available. Priority is also given to low and medium costs apartments as these people own less cars and will use public transport like LRT.



I agree with the priority for commercial areas but not the low and medium cost apartments. A lot of low and medium cost people have small cars or motorbikes.

This shouldn't be a criteria because if the LRT was convenient , more people will take it. Who wants to be caught in a jam every morning when one can have a jam free ride to work ?

Rather, they should set up the stations where it is central and convenient to a subgroup of estates. Eg. USJ 16 TO USJ 22 use the USJ 21 LRT etc.

Each subgroup then should have its station.

AllUrban
24-12-2006, 11:52 AM
Response sent in by Datuk Lee:

3) The line to go to USJ 1 to accommodate 5,000 low cost and medium costs apartments and also Mydin, Giant and Summit high human traffic.

4) The reason for priority for commercial areas like Sunway Pyramid, Summit, Subang Parade, Carrefour, etc are not only the high human traffic
but also the existing car parks available. Priority is also given to low and medium costs apartments as these people own less cars and will use
public transport like LRT.I have to humbly disagree with these reasons...

first, few of the people who will go to places like Mydin, Giant, and Summit day in and day out will be using the bus...just think, how to carry the groceries home from the hypermarkets?

Second, Malaysians who are living in low and medium cost apartments...and presumably not using cars...are likely taking buses or using motorcycles...so this is not going to get many more people to switch from car to public transit...

in fact, the LRT will be more expensive than the buses (which currently will cost a max RM1/2/3/4 per day) so low income people will be less likely to use LRT and will stick to the buses :(

If the goal is to get cars off the roads, this is not the way to do it. If the goal is to make a sustainable transit project...this is not the way to do it.

LRT requires 10,000 people living and working next to each station and using the LRT to make it sustainable. To do this, put LRT on the most important main roads, and parallel these LRT routes with trunk bus routes. Feeder buses connect the trunk bus routes to LRT stations.

This is why I believe that the best way to get service to Puchong is to build a completely new line from KL Sentral to Tesco along Jalan Puchong. To service Sunway pyramid, use the old plan for the extension of the Sri Petaling line...up to Jalan Klang Lama

The government has a stated goal to get 40% of Malaysians to use public transit...so to accomplish this, the people in the link houses and the terrace houses are going to have to start using public transit...and neighbourhoods need to be planned to include public transit from the beginning.

But hey, thats only my opinion...it's not as if the Malaysian government is going to run out of its oil money any time soon...so why not spend spend spend

Cheers, m

newpdg003
07-01-2007, 01:57 PM
Apart of LRT, should we have a tram in Klang Valley? Picture here in below is the tram in France.

http://www.cub-brest.fr/tram/images/tram-roue.jpg

The government should build the tram instead of increase the number of busses .The reason is Tram will reduce the air pollution and using only electric power instead of using petrol as the price of petrol keep on increasing ever year. And the amount of petrol are reduced every year, hence it is the time for us to save the petrol. The cost of tram only spend for building the track on road , as well as install the overhead wire, buy a number of coach and build station. Unlike LRT or Monorail, need to build overhead bridge and underground tunnel.

If the Tram will form, I will like to suggest the route of Tram can serve for some areas which currently do not have LRT services, like TTDI, Sri Hartasmas, Jalan Ipoh, Segambut, Jalan Genting Kelang and so on. For example, the route start from Bandar Utama to Central Market, pass through TTDI and Bangsar. So the TTDI can access the Kota Damansara LRT line or Kelana Jaya LRT line in Bangsar.

The Tram also serve for other area, like Kajang, Semenyith, Klang, Kuala Selangor. Because these place currently do not have LRT, even monorail. And some city remain under develop, it maybe a good chance to build the Tram system over there.

patrick
07-01-2007, 06:15 PM
Apart of LRT, should we have a tram in Klang Valley? Picture here in below is the tram in France.

http://www.cub-brest.fr/tram/images/tram-roue.jpg

The government should build the tram instead of increase the number of busses .The reason is Tram will reduce the air pollution and using only electric power instead of using petrol as the price of petrol keep on increasing ever year. And the amount of petrol are reduced every year, hence it is the time for us to save the petrol. The cost of tram only spend for building the track on road , as well as install the overhead wire, buy a number of coach and build station. Unlike LRT or Monorail, need to build overhead bridge and underground tunnel.

If the Tram will form, I will like to suggest the route of Tram can serve for some areas which currently do not have LRT services, like TTDI, Sri Hartasmas, Jalan Ipoh, Segambut, Jalan Genting Kelang and so on. For example, the route start from Bandar Utama to Central Market, pass through TTDI and Bangsar. So the TTDI can access the Kota Damansara LRT line or Kelana Jaya LRT line in Bangsar.

The Tram also serve for other area, like Kajang, Semenyith, Klang, Kuala Selangor. Because these place currently do not have LRT, even monorail. And some city remain under develop, it maybe a good chance to build the Tram system over there.


The idea is good but in Malaysia, I fear the tram will also get choked amongst the traffic jams. And knowing how considerate Malaysian drivers are, they will probably use the tram track to jump queue!! Also, floods will make the trams inaccessible. Further, our roads are often already too congested.

patrick
08-01-2007, 06:01 PM
Recieved a reply from Adun Subang Jaya:

I like to respond to few comments on my proposals on the LRT extension.

I disagree that residents of low and medium cost apartments cannot afford to take LRT. If you study the existing Star and Putra lines, there are more passengers from Cheras and Ampang areas as compared to PJ. Cheras and Ampang are relatively lower income group than PJ. Terrace houses like SJ and USJ all have many cars and they can drive to the LRT stations, park and travel.

Anyway, the proposed stations at SS15 / SS14, USJ 8, USJ 19 and USJ 21 are in the centrer of residential areas.

Only the Lagoon Perdana and USJ 1 are near low and medium cost areas.

Most people travel to work or shopping areas. Hence, the line and stops must cater to these demands. The Putra line will take commuters to work in PJ and KL and at the same time to shopping areas in Summit, Pyramid, Parade, Amcorp Mid-Valley and KLCC.

The Star line from Bukit Jalil is expected to end in front of IOI Mall. We have proposed that it be extended to meet the Putra line at USJ 8 or USJ 21. If this happens, the much awaited loop will happen.

Bye.

Yours In Service,

Lee Hwa Beng
ADUN Subang Jaya

AllUrban
09-01-2007, 01:15 PM
The idea is good but in Malaysia, I fear the tram will also get choked amongst the traffic jams. And knowing how considerate Malaysian drivers are, they will probably use the tram track to jump queue!! Also, floods will make the trams inaccessible. Further, our roads are often already too congested.It's all about lifestyle choices...do you choose cars or public transit...

to avoid trams/buses getting stuck, you have to separate the buses/trams from the other cars...that means that if everyone decides to still drive, then they face more congestion...

but that is not so evil, is it? Why shouldnt a bus carrying 40 people have the right to move faster than a single car carrying 1 person?

As for the specific locations of the stations...if they move some people off the roads that is great...but they will not make enough changes to move enough people

Realistically...what will they have to do get the people living in the tamans and the jayas (e.g. USJ11, USj16) to get onto a bus or LRT???

It is not a matter of "if you build it, they will come"

Cheers, m

AllUrban
10-01-2007, 11:35 AM
One thing also worth considering is that the use of the LRT must justify the costs...by the time it is finished, the LRT will be 4 carriage, and capable of carrying up to 30,000 passengers per day per direction.

To make this line successful, 10,000 people have to live and work at each stop....otherwise there will have to be subsidies or fare increases.....

Are those potential passenger numbers present in USJ and Subang Jaya? Do we know how many people will use (actually use) the new extension...or is it just gambling and assumption? Is there any information on which to base the need for this extension beyond "if we build it, they will come" such as successful bus routes, survey information, etc?

If Prasrana and RapidKL build the LRT extension to USJ and Subang Jaya...will you use it??

If not, then we should consider that for the cost of 1km of LRT line extension, the government could build between 4-6 km of tram lines and 20 km of bus lines.....

So...If passenger numbers in USJ and Subang Jaya do not justify the need for the LRT extension...then the money spent could be used to build km after km of tram lines or rapid bus lines in different areas of the Klang Valley.

Cheers, m

AllUrban
12-01-2007, 04:28 PM
Check this outhttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/352757608_8a3b8e9a7a_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/352757608_8a3b8e9a7a_o.jpg

This is a sweet example of the possibilities for a new Klang Valley railway network

Cheers, Moaz

newpdg003
13-01-2007, 01:33 AM
The idea is good but in Malaysia, I fear the tram will also get choked amongst the traffic jams. And knowing how considerate Malaysian drivers are, they will probably use the tram track to jump queue!! Also, floods will make the trams inaccessible. Further, our roads are often already too congested.

Ya, you can find the similar thing happen in the bas lane. Hence, to reduce the problem that similar in bus lane, this must have a proper plan before introduce this tram system to our country.


Check this outhttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/352757608_8a3b8e9a7a_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/352757608_8a3b8e9a7a_o.jpg

This is a sweet example of the possibilities for a new Klang Valley railway network

Cheers, Moaz

I though this is the confirm version of new Klang Valley railway network already announced by government.Basically, I found this network bring a lot of advantages. For example, I want to go to Puchong area by taking from one Utama Star LRT station. Also, can change to Kelana Jaya line in Taman Bahagia station. The network actually suggest the "Star" line network play important role to cover around the Klang valley railway network instead of the 4 new lines Monorail one suggested by KLIG. Secondly, Kepong, Jalan Ipoh,Tam Tun Dr Ismail those high population places need to access LRT facilities according to the higher demand. It is a good chance for RapidKL to making profit unless the railway network planning disturbed by some politics issue otherwise there must have LRT service over that places.

Still, there are some disadvantages for this network especially it need to build too I many overhead bridges along the LDP. But, I don't think there are lot spaces for "Star"line rapidKL construct the overhead railway since there are a lot fly over bridges in Penchala link, unless they must use the resident area to build overhead railway. Or, follow the same way as Putra line between Sri Rampai and Wangsa Maju, has an underground railway but not a underground station.

Overall, I think SPNB should take this suggestion railway network in to the future plan for LRT extension and build a new line.

Teeque
13-01-2007, 04:10 AM
Check this out
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/352757608_8a3b8e9a7a_o.jpg

This is a sweet example of the possibilities for a new Klang Valley railway network

Cheers, Moaz

Wow, this is a dream network that could even rival the Shanghai MRT or London Underground, imo. I guess the downside would be the huge cost in building such a comprehensive network. But if the plan is heading in this direction and the authorities are all for it, this would hv solve the major public transit headaches that the rakyat are facing.

ng
13-01-2007, 10:23 AM
Recieved a reply from Adun Subang Jaya:

If you study the existing Star and Putra lines, there are more passengers from Cheras and Ampang areas as compared to PJ. Cheras and Ampang are relatively lower income group than PJ.

Lee Hwa Beng
ADUN Subang Jaya

Cheras and ampang are middle income group with a lot of small double storey houses , although they cost less than the houses in PJ.

Most truly poor people who live in low cost govt flats etc DON'T use LRT for the simple reason that it is cheaper to ride a motorcycle or take a bus. Why increase their financial burden when they are eating from hand to mouth ?

Our LRT charges are way too expensive as compared to countries like Singapore. Because our Putra and STAR line are NOT integrated, we have to pay double the fare just to change system for even one or two stops more. :eek:

I think other than the lagoon perdana area, I agree with the rest of the locations. Why not change it to an area near the 3k Swimming complex to encourage people to be healthy ?

ng
13-01-2007, 10:49 AM
This is a sweet example of the possibilities for a new Klang Valley railway network

Cheers, Moaz

So is this plan confirmed ? With new lines damansara, puchong and pekeliling lines ?

Originally, they wanted to extend the sri petaling and kelana jaya lines only.

Where is the official announcement link ? :D

newpdg003
13-01-2007, 11:45 AM
So is this plan confirmed ? With new lines damansara, puchong and pekeliling lines ?

Originally, they wanted to extend the sri petaling and kelana jaya lines only.

Where is the official announcement link ? :D

If this plan is confirmed, I can say Malaysia really improve a lot of compare to last. Well, basically the plan is reflect to the number population demand on LRT service. I can say this plan really a well design for our railway network design.

Currently, we find some places actually need LRT service but don't understand why government did not serve them LRT service, even under 9MP 's public transport plan, the extension LRT line and new line also did not include this area. It is quite suspect that due to the politics issue involve on this plan, I can understand some place belong to opposition party. Otherwise, how can the new LRT plan do not include this area especially Kepong.

The current plan here just extend Sri Petaling to Puchong IOI mall, and Kelana Jaya line to Subang. And the new line is from Kota Damansara to Cheras.

AllUrban
15-01-2007, 11:05 AM
So is this plan confirmed ? With new lines damansara, puchong and pekeliling lines ?

Originally, they wanted to extend the sri petaling and kelana jaya lines only.

Where is the official announcement link ? :DNo, this is not an official government plan...this is the work of someone who is obviously interested in the possibilities of LRT and rail in the Klang Valley.

I wish I could find out who created it.

Cheers, m

AllUrban
16-01-2007, 01:36 PM
Patrick, would it be possible to post the date of the next sub-committee meeting onto this thread?

I would like to attend the meeting. Dont worry, I wont question the LRT stations or mention trams...I only would like to make a few suggestions at the meeting.

Right now, usj has no direct service to the KJ LRT. I think that RapidKL should remedy this now, as the LRT extension wont come here for a few years. There are a few ideas that could be shared.



Apart of LRT, should we have a tram in Klang Valley? Picture here in below is the tram in France.

http://www.cub-brest.fr/tram/images/tram-roue.jpg
You might find it interesting to know that the Translohr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translohr) is actually something in between a bus and a tram.

The support for the vehicle comes from rubber tyres, and the power is fed into the tyres. The rail that you see at the centre is only to guide the bus as it travels. That is why the system is also called GLT for Guided Light Transit.

So why does it look like a tram? Because companies have found that buses (square, box-like) dont get the attention of people. People prefer to ride trams over buses.

Trams (especially modern ones) are curvy, smooth, and...well, they are sexy.[

Cheers, m

patrick
17-01-2007, 10:13 PM
Patrick, would it be possible to post the date of the next sub-committee meeting onto this thread?

I would like to attend the meeting. Dont worry, I wont question the LRT stations or mention trams...I only would like to make a few suggestions at the meeting....


Ok, I'll keep you and your request in mind, if I am invited or if there is another meeting! ;-)

patrick
17-01-2007, 10:17 PM
Dato Lee has submitted another response to this thread:


Tram Services
-------------

Tram still use the surface roads. It will still jam the roads even
though tramways are given priority over other vehicles.

Station at 3K Sports Centre
---------------------------

The proposed station between SS14 and SS15 on top of the NPE Highway is
walking distance to 3K Complex. If the LRT has to have a stop at 3K
Complex, then the LRT got to completely bypass Sunway. Sunway residents
will go after me.

General
-------

Even though there are proposed stops at Lagoon Perdana and USJ 1 medium
and low cost apartments, the other stations at Subang Parade, SS14 /
SS15, USJ 8, USJ 19, USJ 23 serve the terrace houses.

Bye.

Yours In Service,

Lee Hwa Beng
ADUN Subang Jaya

AllUrban
18-01-2007, 01:59 PM
Dato Lee has submitted another response to this thread:


Tram Services
-------------

Tram still use the surface roads. It will still jam the roads even
though tramways are given priority over other vehicles.No one wants to consider that the tram is more flexible....Yes, trams run on the streets, in traffic, but they can be elevated or sent underground when necessary....at highways, at intersections/roundabouts, for example...Can the LRT run along Pers. Kewajipan in mixed traffic? It cannot, because it is not flexible

No one wants to consider that each tram can carry almost as many people as the current Kelana Jaya LRT (about 80-150 people) which means that more cars can be taken off the road...

No one wants to consider that with the money saved building trams, more lines can be built, meaning more trams and more cars off the road......

No one wants to consider that with more money saved, more transit routes, and transit vehicles no longer jammed...transit service will become more reliable...

What more can I say...the solutions are there but none of it matters, does it...because no matter what anyone may claim about supporting public transportation and increasing use to 40%, in the minds of the people making decisions, public transit is for low income people and the car is and always will be king in Malaysia...


Ok, I'll keep you and your request in mind, if I am invited or if there is another meeting! ;-)Thanks. I'll see what I can do towards getting a few more bus routes for USJ and SJ from RapidKL. Dont worry, I may not agree with the reasons behind the decision for LRT...but I am willing to support better transit...if the government wants to spend money, who am I to question their decisions :)

Cheers, m

RobotdeNiro
18-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Dato Lee has submitted another response to this thread:


Tram Services
-------------

Tram still use the surface roads. It will still jam the roads even
though tramways are given priority over other vehicles.

Station at 3K Sports Centre
---------------------------

The proposed station between SS14 and SS15 on top of the NPE Highway is
walking distance to 3K Complex. If the LRT has to have a stop at 3K
Complex, then the LRT got to completely bypass Sunway. Sunway residents
will go after me.

General
-------

Even though there are proposed stops at Lagoon Perdana and USJ 1 medium
and low cost apartments, the other stations at Subang Parade, SS14 /
SS15, USJ 8, USJ 19, USJ 23 serve the terrace houses.

Bye.

Yours In Service,

Lee Hwa Beng
ADUN Subang Jaya

But if we have a barrier on the road that seperates the trams from other vehicle...it would cause more conjestions if people were to drive. This would make the trams VERY ATTRACTIVE as they would be jam free.

When people start using the trams especially students who previously drive to colleges in SJ, the roads would be less congested.

ng
18-01-2007, 03:14 PM
Station at 3K Sports Centre
---------------------------

The proposed station between SS14 and SS15 on top of the NPE Highway is walking distance to 3K Complex.

As long as it is within walking distance to 3K complex, I think people will be happy. Compare this with the kelana jaya swimming pool where people have to wait 15/20 minutes for the bus at the Kelana Jaya LRT, then take another 15 minutes ride to the MPPJ stadium. :eek:


Another important issue is the interchange between the sri petaling and kelana jaya line. It has to be carefully planned to avoid the situation such as in Masjid Jamek where you have to walk quite a distance between the two and also face other unnecessary inconveniences.


The interchange should be at a place where there's lots of free land for the 2 lines to merge comfortably with minimal covered walking between the two (don't have to be subjected to sun or rain).

This interchange place can be either at IOI mall or USJ 8.

patrick
23-01-2007, 02:17 PM
No one wants to consider that the tram is more flexible....Yes, trams run on the streets, in traffic, but they can be elevated or sent underground when necessary....at highways, at intersections/roundabouts, for example...Can the LRT run along Pers. Kewajipan in mixed traffic? It cannot, because it is not flexible..............

What is the difference between trams that are elevated or underground and the present LRT that are also elevated or underground?

But if trams are not elevated, this means trams are using the surface roads. It will not solve the traffic congestion as long as it is not elevated. LRT’s are elevated or underground to avoid the congestion at the existing surface roads.

Trams are only used in cities that do not have traffic jams (Melbourne) or in certain roads as a tourist attraction (San Francisco).

Bye.

Yours In Service,

Lee Hwa Beng
ADUN Subang Jaya

AllUrban
24-01-2007, 11:43 AM
What is the difference between trams that are elevated or underground and the present LRT that are also elevated or underground?There is only really one major difference, and that is cost.

The LRT (especially the KJ LRT) cannot operate on the street. It must be elevated or underground for its entire length, which costs alot of money....if underground, then tunnels are needed. If elevated, then concrete pillars, guideways, elevated stations, lifts, ramps, etc are needed...they all cost money.

How will the company pay for the extra costs? Probably through more advertising...creating a different sort of eyesore...dont we already have enough ads in Subang Jaya?

There are minor differences, advantages and disadvantages for trams v. LRT. A good cost-benefit analysis would examine these differences. However, I see nothing to indicate that a cost-benefit analysis has been done. The decision has been made based on assumptions, not analysis.


But if trams are not elevated, this means trams are using the surface roads. It will not solve the traffic congestion as long as it is not elevated. LRT’s are elevated or underground to avoid the congestion at the existing surface roads.To continue from above, assumptions are a problem. The assumptions about "traffic congestion" and the "Crazy Malaysian drivers" have become demons that seem to pervade the thinking of most Malaysians. I think the real concern behind these assumptions is that most of you dont want to give up your cars. Well, you dont have to. The point is that you make some trips by public transit...but not all trips.

Traffic congestion does not exist everywhere and everytime. It exists mostly at intersections (especially where there are right turns) and roundabouts.

Daily traffic congestion should really only occur during peak hours. If regular congestion occurs outside of peak hours this is likely because of bad planning or very rapid growth. The traffic volume of Malaysian roads has overwhelmed the roundabouts. Traffic lights are given 120 second timings, which are too long.

Construction of trams is a cheaper and faster way to build rapid transit. Since trams cost less, extra lines can be built...which will get more cars off the roads...which will reduce traffic congestion.

One single carriage tram can carry as many people as two buses, or 80 cars. That means 80 cars less will be on the roads...a two carriage tram can carry up to 150 people.

A public transit vehicle moves more people than cars, and should have priority.


Trams are only used in cities that do not have traffic jams (Melbourne) or in certain roads as a tourist attraction (San Francisco).
I find this to be a little misleading. Trams (or streetcars) are being used worldwide because they are a cheaper way of introducing Rapid Transit to cities. Cities that gave up trams/streetcars in the past are returning to them, especially in the United States..the land of the car. Trams are a fixture of many cities in Western Europe, big and small.

this is one of many articles (http://www.masstransitmag.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=2432) explaining how cities are returning to trams as a way to build a demand for public transit.

Cheers, m

ng
24-01-2007, 12:28 PM
There is only really one major difference, and that is cost.

The LRT (especially the KJ LRT) cannot operate on the street.


I think Lee Hwa Beng is correct. We have been trying to get the LRT to subang jaya for a long time and we don't need more complexities such as a tram,monorail etc. We must remember that in western countries, their town planning is much better and they have much less traffic jam.

In the long run, an LRT will be more convenient as it will be more integrated.

It is better to build LRT at a higher cost than spending money on space program, white elephant projects etc using taxpayers money. :(

So let it rest and speed up the building of the LRT. Hopefully, we won't have to wait for 10 years for it to be build.

Cheers

RobotdeNiro
24-01-2007, 12:47 PM
Monorail stations are usually located in some part of town which would require you to get some sort of transport anyway to get there. Still a waste of time especially if there's jam.

Trams stops would likely be nearer to houses as they use the main roads.

The trams should go all the way to KL streets and KL sentral

JoeJaffar
24-01-2007, 02:16 PM
my wife and i tried the LA Metro's transit system when I was there a couple of years ago. we were staying at long beach, south of LA. it looked like they have a mixed-system: mrt in downtown/beverly hills area, lrt and tram in the suburb and to long beach. from long beach, the tram moved on road medians, at grade. a few miles before reaching downtown LA, it moved underground, just like any other rapid transit. travelling wise, the time taken is comparable considering the long distance between the two cities. and the tram-like service is about 4-5 cars long and always has priority over road traffic.

there are no barriers to separate it from others, except at the station. and the stations are really close to the shops, hotels, supermarkets, so we didn't really have to walk that far.

to me, it doesn't matter if it's lrt, mrt, tram or monorail as long as it's easy to get to and and takes me to where i want.

patrick
24-01-2007, 06:30 PM
...........A public transit vehicle moves more people than cars, and should have priority...........

Cheers, m

I definitely see your many valid points. Except this statement which I have chosen to highlight. This will be the single, most vital factor which will work against the tram in the bolehland. Your assumption is "..should have the priority", but that's exactly the biggest obstacle here! Motorists here are absolutely inconsiderate and many are plain idiots! I can assure you they will drive into the trams' right of way and behave like the trams dont even exist! That to me will be the largest obstacle in bolehland!

kwchang
25-01-2007, 01:21 AM
My niece who had been studying in Melbourne for the past year tells me that she don't like to go downtown by car because if the car gets caught behind a tram, it will be a slow ride all the way. I take it that in a law-abiding community, people give way to trams and endure the slow drive .... as Patrick has pointed out, do you think our KL drivers would allow a tram to get in their way, just because the tram is moving more people at a more environmentally friendly way?

Many many years ago when I had the chance to be in the UK, I noticed that the double-decker bus I was on was moving unobstructed in the bus-lane while all the cars were waiting patiently in a mother of traffic jams on the other lane meant for cars. This was in Reading, a small town (with a huge suburb) which has very narrow streets. This would never happen in Malaysia.

Designers of commuter systems must have the mentality of the population in mind all the time. Just because it works elsewhere, it need not work here.

Teeque
25-01-2007, 02:16 AM
....Trams are only used in cities that do not have traffic jams (Melbourne) or in certain roads as a tourist attraction (San Francisco).

Bye.

Yours In Service,

Lee Hwa Beng
ADUN Subang Jaya
This is not only misleading but factually wrong on all counts, and this coming frm an assemblyman. I hope he takes a relook at the public transit systems of other cities and learn more when he is on his next lawatan sambil belajar trips.

Anyway, all said, eventhough trams are a good idea, I agree with Chang and Patrick in that public transit should be designed with the intricasies and needs of a city/suburb in mind, especially the mentality of Malaysian roadusers. But the other side of the coin also shows us that, with this Malaysian roadusers mentality, even with all the state of the art public transit systems in the world installed here, it would still fail and add on to the ever increasing road fatality statistics. sad reality really...

RobotdeNiro
25-01-2007, 10:27 AM
Maybe we should have barriers for the trams...so no car/bus can come on to the tram's tracks.

AllUrban
25-01-2007, 11:21 AM
I dont mind LRT. Actually, I like LRT. And, maybe the decision that was made is a good decision.

My concern is about the process of making the decision, not the decision itself. My concern is about the decision making and the decision makers.

Has there been a serious cost-benefit analysis of the LRT and alternatives?

Why was the extension of the Sri Petaling LRT changed from Old Klang Road to Puchong (IOI)?

What are the route plans for the extensions?

These questions are not being answered by the powers that be.

Another concern I have is this...LRT is what it is...mass-transit...elevated, direct, fast, and reliable.

If the LRT is routed through SJ, Sunway, and USJ to touch every neighbourhood, it begins to get slower and less direct....in other words, it becomes more like a tram service and less like a mass-transit....

Do we want to see a situation where money and time is spent on construction of LRT, but the resulting service is more like what would be expected from a tram...?

My suggestion is to build LRT in the city centre of KL, and get that taken care of first. Connection to the suburban areas would be done using restricted bus lanes (fast + cheap transit). Then, when the suburban areas are ready for LRT, it can be extended.

This way, the investment in LRT is justified as there is a high, and demonstrated demand from passengers...they are using the bus and ready to switch.

Well, LRT has been decided on...so a goal for this local committee would now be to concentrate on creating the passenger demand that is necessary to justify an LRT.

I ask, are USJ and SJ ready for LRT? Dunno yet...because there is no current bus service link between these communities and Kelana Jaya LRT station. So one clear solution would be to get a direct, fast feeder bus link between USJ/SJ and Kelana Jaya LRT...I have an idea of how this could be done...If anyone on the committee would like to know more about this please pm me.

Cheers, m

patrick
25-01-2007, 03:59 PM
Maybe we should have barriers for the trams...so no car/bus can come on to the tram's tracks.

How do you build a continuous barrier when you come to a roundabout or a road interchange or junction??

JoeJaffar
25-01-2007, 05:19 PM
by using those useless red, plastic poles currently favored by all? either trams or cars can run over those things

RobotdeNiro
25-01-2007, 10:27 PM
How do you build a continuous barrier when you come to a roundabout or a road interchange or junction??

Maybe we can have those gates which close to block traffic, something like when trains come across trunk roads.

Probabbly something like that. That would make people more frustrated driving and rather use a tram. :D :rolleyes:

newpdg003
26-01-2007, 12:13 AM
I dont mind LRT. Actually, I like LRT. And, maybe the decision that was made is a good decision.

My concern is about the process of making the decision, not the decision itself. My concern is about the decision making and the decision makers.

Has there been a serious cost-benefit analysis of the LRT and alternatives?

Why was the extension of the Sri Petaling LRT changed from Old Klang Road to Puchong (IOI)?

What are the route plans for the extensions?

These questions are not being answered by the powers that be.

Another concern I have is this...LRT is what it is...mass-transit...elevated, direct, fast, and reliable.

If the LRT is routed through SJ, Sunway, and USJ to touch every neighbourhood, it begins to get slower and less direct....in other words, it becomes more like a tram service and less like a mass-transit....

Do we want to see a situation where money and time is spent on construction of LRT, but the resulting service is more like what would be expected from a tram...?

My suggestion is to build LRT in the city centre of KL, and get that taken care of first. Connection to the suburban areas would be done using restricted bus lanes (fast + cheap transit). Then, when the suburban areas are ready for LRT, it can be extended.

This way, the investment in LRT is justified as there is a high, and demonstrated demand from passengers...they are using the bus and ready to switch.

Well, LRT has been decided on...so a goal for this local committee would now be to concentrate on creating the passenger demand that is necessary to justify an LRT.

I ask, are USJ and SJ ready for LRT? Dunno yet...because there is no current bus service link between these communities and Kelana Jaya LRT station. So one clear solution would be to get a direct, fast feeder bus link between USJ/SJ and Kelana Jaya LRT...I have an idea of how this could be done...If anyone on the committee would like to know more about this please pm me.

Cheers, m

Same with you, I prefer to have more LRT system instead of other traffic system in Klang valley. For the tram I suggested earlier more suitable establishes in rural area or less car area.

Before the government announce about the new extension LRT line and new LRT line for the future plans. May I suggest the new route for Kota Damansara –Cheras LRT line:

The route start from ota Damansara-Mutiara Damansara-Bandar Utama-Damansara Utama-Damansara Intan-Bangsar-Mid Valley- Tun Sembatan- Jalan Raja Chulan- Lot 10- Time square- Jalan Tun Razak-Jalan Cheras- until to Taman Tun Hussein Onn.

Most of this places above are commercial and tourism areas that will increase the number of passenger utilize LRT services. Especially in Bukit Bintang area.This maybe require to build underground station around Jalan Raja Chulan until Jalan Tun Razak, in fact, Bukit Bintang area should have underground station that better than current Monorail station. I hope government should take this suggestion into account before to build Kota-Damansara Cheras LRT line.

AllUrban
26-01-2007, 11:42 AM
by using those useless red, plastic poles currently favored by all? either trams or cars can run over those thingsConcrete

Raised kerbs between the tram/bus lane and the other traffic.

If it is a tram lane, the rails can be raised up as well

traffic can go through at intersections...by having level curbs (and rails in the case of tram)

check http://www.davidfisher.biz/ for photos of a tram project that is going on in Toronto...you can see how the design works...

Oh, and btw...having tram lanes...perhaps only emergency vehicles will be allowed to use them....then they can move faster...in emergencies...

especially fire and ambulance...

Cheers, m

patrick
26-01-2007, 06:18 PM
Concrete

Raised kerbs between the tram/bus lane and the other traffic.

If it is a tram lane, the rails can be raised up as well

traffic can go through at intersections...by having level curbs (and rails in the case of tram)

check http://www.davidfisher.biz/ for photos of a tram project that is going on in Toronto...you can see how the design works...

Oh, and btw...having tram lanes...perhaps only emergency vehicles will be allowed to use them....then they can move faster...in emergencies...

especially fire and ambulance...

Cheers, m

The trams will get choked at the roundabout and the intersections if not on the straight.

We now have bus lanes in KL. But try observing who uses those lanes! Many private vehicles seem to think they are emergency vehicles and use them just the same!! Many Malaysian motorists are either blissfully ignorant or chose to be ignorant! Traffic travelling from KL to PJ everyday is clogged up at the bus lane along Jln Putra opposite MidValley. Why? Becose many idiots use they bus lane and then try to jump out to the normal traffic lane when they realize there are buses up ahead that have stopped. Go see for yourself. That's Malaysian motorists for you!!

newpdg003
26-01-2007, 09:49 PM
As patrick mentioned the problem of Bus Lane in KL, I would like to introduce the busway system in Jakarta in to Klang Valley. The Busway only allow bus run in the lane, beside that the busways have barrier to unable other traffic drive in:

http://www.jakarta.go.id/images/gambar/busway4.jpg

and the idea of busway even good for RapidKL .Especially, the RapidKL currently operate 3 kind system:local shuttle, trunk line and city shuttle which maybe become Bus Rapid "transit" like LRT. Of course, if this exists for bus, sure exists for Tram. This similar idea of busway can apply in Tram way.

patrick
27-01-2007, 06:40 PM
As patrick mentioned the problem of Bus Lane in KL, I would like to introduce the busway system in Jakarta in to Klang Valley. The Busway only allow bus run in the lane, beside that the busways have barrier to unable other traffic drive in:


Agree with you. They have to do that for KL/Klang Valley. Otherwise other inconsiderate motorists are making a mockery of the current bus lanes!

Kenneth20
27-01-2007, 08:46 PM
Some info:
-------------
The Jakarta bus lanes are built becoz there were some dirty politics la.. the bus lanes was supposed to be LRT lanes...but due to some corruptions, they were turned to Bus lanes..

This is what my friends in Indonesia told me..

so there is nothing so great about Indonesia Bus lanes concept.
More pollution too..

Malaysia should just adopt the MRT Singapore concept..

Plan well for the future.

newpdg003
28-01-2007, 12:14 AM
Some info:
-------------
The Jakarta bus lanes are built becoz there were some dirty politics la.. the bus lanes was supposed to be LRT lanes...but due to some corruptions, they were turned to Bus lanes..

This is what my friends in Indonesia told me..

so there is nothing so great about Indonesia Bus lanes concept.
More pollution too..

Malaysia should just adopt the MRT Singapore concept..

Plan well for the future.

I heard similar story when I visited to Taiwan at 1996. The tour guide told me that the reason why Taipei MRT still unable finished at 1996 due to the dirty politics issue. Lucky their MRT finally not become as bus lane.And now, the Taipei MRT becomes the best transit system in the world. So how about Malaysia? This is a "good" question.

However, the busway in Jakarta I suggested just wish to improve the bus lane problem that Patrick has mentioned earlier. And it is more suitable for RapidKL bus especially they currently run out 3 kind of systems. It doesn’t mean I appreciate the Jakarta busway system and the policy. I think we can do better than them to prove “Malaysia Boleh”.

I agree with you our LRT system should adopt the MRT Singapore concept. We hope RapidKL or SPNB take effort on improving the public transport system in Klang Valley.

Apart of the route rail extend from Sri petaling to Puchong, and from Kelana Jaya to USJ plus Damansara-cheras link, I would like to suggest more rail should extend from Sentul Timur and from Sri Gombak:

1. Extend from Sentul Timur to Kepong Carrofour.
2. Extend from Sri Gombak to Selayang Hospital. Pass through Batu Caves.

I think government should consider this route because Kepong, Selayang citizens have high demand on LRT service, currently there are not any LRT serve for them. Secondly, I think RM10million is enough to extent more route for Kepong area and Selayang. Don’t think they need spend too much cost to build elevator track. It is a good chance for RapidKL LRT to earn money from Kepong and Selayang area, why don't take it into account?

About Kota Damansara to Cheras new LRT routes I mentioned in #201 that should pass around Bukit Bintang area, because Bukit Bintang usually commercial area and tourism area allow LRT carry a lot of passenger better than Monorail. Monorails are poor to carry huge number of passenger. I get suffer to take Monorail in Bukit Bintang area especially peak hour. You should wait another train and make sure it is not full amount passenger at all.

Of course, this new LRT route should have at least 5 or 8 underground station, especially when it enters to KL town. The underground stations start from Tun Sembatan(near KL sentral, since there is no other space reserve for new LRT line, so should has an underground station beside KL sentral in Tun Sembatan) until Jalan Tun Razak.

I never expect our country have underground system like London, because I understand our economic abilities. But, we still have underground station in our city that operated by LRT better than never. The Singapore MRT, straightly speaking, we cannot treat it as underground train if you use London Underground concept. Many people consider Singapore MRT as underground train because Singapore MRT has more underground stations than elevator, above ground one.

AllUrban
28-01-2007, 12:54 PM
Maybe there would not be as much congestion as assumed, if restricted transit lanes were placed on Pers. Kewajipan.

Consider this:

From Mesiniaga (Jln Kemajuan Subang) to Metropolitan Roundabout (NPE), the road was 4 lanes (2 lanes in each direction).

Another two lanes were added (USJ bound) to allow for the construction of the Subang Kelana flyover, allowing the road to be shifted.

This is a total of 6 lanes (although 2 are not being used).

Pers. Kewajipan in USJ is 8 lanes (4 lanes each direction) from Metropolitan to Summit, and 6 lanes (3 lanes each direction) from Summit to USJ9.

The Subang Kelana Link will add another 4 lanes (2 lanes each direction)above pers. Kewajipan from Mesianaga to the Kompleks 3K

So, what happens on Pers. Kewajipan if two lanes are taken away for transit use?

From Mesiniaga (Jln. Kemajuan Subang) to Metropolitan Roundabout (NPE)

4 lanes at grade + 2 lanes at grade + 4 lanes elevated
-2 lanes at grade for transit lane

= 4 lanes at grade + 4 lanes elevated

Therefore, a net gain of 4 lanes for cars

From Metropolitan Roundabout (NPE) to Summit (KESAS)

8 lanes at grade + 4 lanes elevated
-2 lanes at grade for transit lane

= 6 lanes at grade + 4 lanes elevated

Therefore, a net gain of 2 lanes for cars

After Summit? Jam at Summit in the future will be interesting as traffic traveling at expressway speeds exits down the ramp into slow moving traffic...

The Subang Kelana Link will be finished in Dec 2008. It would be interesting to study if having transit lanes on Kewajipan will be possible, based on a net increase in the number of traffic lanes.

Getting choked at intersections and roundabouts will be a problem, but solutions can be found. Since someone mentioned Jakarta...they have a separate system of signals for the transit lanes...and these signals give the buses priority over the cars

Someone also mentioned the bus lanes in KL and inconsiderate motorists. Well, in this case the design of the bus lanes is an issue but so is the enforcement. Seems in Singapore there is no visible enforcement but the drivers observe the bus lane...why? It's not that the Singaporean drivers are more considerate...it's that they are aware of the possibilities for enforcement.

Hmmm....The new batch of RapidKL buses have rear view cameras. Add front view cameras, and the buses can record images of cars abusing the bus lanes....and kena saman. That's a start

Cheers, m

AllUrban
05-02-2007, 11:35 AM
A long time ago I mentioned a concern that the properties between the Federal Highway and Jalan SS16/1 would be sold to a developer before any plans were made for the public transit service.

Well, it's been confirmed, as one of the last empty properties in SS16 has been sold to a developer.

Empire Subang (http://www.goodfengshui.com/gallery/images/224.png) will be built along Jalan SS16/1, just after Jalan Jengka. It will be opposite the Wisma Consplant building. On the Subang Parade side of Jalan Jengka, there is the Saujana development.

The empire will have Good Feng Shui (http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:knSOt83sKy4J:goodfengshui.org/+Empire+Subang&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3) but still, this begs the question...

Where is the LRT going to go?

Remember, the SJ structural plan placed the LRT on Jalan Jengka...but how will it get to Jalan Jengka if the properties on both sides between SS16 and the Federal Highway are built into luxury apartments?

having the LRT at your doorstep is a good thing for a commercial venture...but not a good thing if you are living next to it...

Will the owners of these properties fight the LRT? Will the value of their property be reduced by having the LRT too close to their homes? Will there even be space for the LRT near Subang Jaya KTM?

Where is the LRT going to go now?

Cheers, m

RobotdeNiro
05-02-2007, 10:59 PM
bad guys always hang out at LRT stations.

Teeque
06-02-2007, 05:14 AM
...Where is the LRT going to go now?

Cheers, m
down underground perhaps? ;) ...first for subang again...

PeterHng
06-02-2007, 01:12 PM
let's hope it's underground only and not to the drains ya... :rolleyes:

newpdg003
06-02-2007, 09:13 PM
down underground perhaps? ;) ...first for subang again...

This is really good sound if they will build an underground. In fact, I didn't expect our country has underground like London. But at least, all LRT should have underground station rather than elevator. It maybe take 5 or 6 stations in underground for each LRT systems(i.e. star, Putra, new Kota Damansara-cheras). Putra LRT currently has only 6 underground station in total, hence it can build more underground station when extent the line to USJ.

n6688my
06-02-2007, 11:18 PM
Underground? mmmmm worried there will be more flood & landslide

concern!!!
06-02-2007, 11:51 PM
very hard to build underground in this country.. legal issue i think

Nowiam
07-02-2007, 08:56 AM
Legal issue is one thing, which normally can be overcomed by land acquisition (By that I mean, even with overhead there is legal issue, you would not agree to viaduct running over your roof if you object to it running under your house, right?), but mainly construction costs is the main obstacle.

In tight urban situation, underground is the only way to go. In the suburbs where more leeway is available, the costs may not overcome the attractions.

AllUrban
07-02-2007, 10:50 AM
build it under or over the roads, or on the roads....whatever method they choose, it is important to realize that public transit belongs on the roads...where the people are...not running along a tenaga corridor or along a river...where there are no people.

If they build it under Jalan Jengka, then there is no legal issue. I just dont understand why they didnt protect this corridor between the Federal Highway and Jalan Jengka....

unless they (prasarana) have a plan that is different from the SJ Structural plan???

Cheers, m

newpdg003
09-02-2007, 04:37 PM
Any idea when government will announce the exact route for extends Sri Petaling line, Kelana Jaya line and Kota damansara to Cheras line? And when will they start to build?

CS Chua
06-04-2007, 11:27 AM
It has been months since the announcement of the LRT into SJ. What is going on? Or are they using it to bait SJ/USJ residents into voting for them in the coming GE?

Would you vote for the BN to get the LRT into SJ/USJ? As they say, this is where the rubber meets the road.

Raikonen
06-04-2007, 11:44 AM
It has been months since the announcement of the LRT into SJ. What is going on? Or are they using it to bait SJ/USJ residents into voting for them in the coming GE?

Would you vote for the BN to get the LRT into SJ/USJ? As they say, this is where the rubber meets the road.

I will never vote for BN even if they build the LRT into my living room... :mad:

CS Chua
06-04-2007, 03:48 PM
I will never vote for BN even if they build the LRT into my living room... :mad:
Good to have die hards like you, Sir, but what about fence-sitters? Are there many in SJ/USJ? This LRT issue may swing more votes to the BN. Sigh. :mad:

sly
06-04-2007, 03:56 PM
so meaning if i we have the oppositions that won the elections...they wont give a damn to LRT anymore? and they want all USJ ppl to ride bikes? i think if a project that will benefit the rakyat....i'm sure that whoever that won will still carry on with the project...no? i definitely wont vote for BN.....i will rather stuck in the jam...the LRT wont buy my dignity...i want a fair government...not buy-a-vote-with-LRT type government...

ng
06-04-2007, 04:49 PM
It has been months since the announcement of the LRT into SJ. What is going on? Or are they using it to bait SJ/USJ residents into voting for them in the coming GE?

Would you vote for the BN to get the LRT into SJ/USJ? As they say, this is where the rubber meets the road.

Bukit bintang is an opposition stronghold and yet there are LRT criss-crossing here and there.

Don't be afraid of scare tactics. As long as there are money to be earned, they will build it and especially since it has been promised by the govt.

Raikonen
06-04-2007, 05:54 PM
Good to have die hards like you, Sir, but what about fence-sitters? Are there many in SJ/USJ? This LRT issue may swing more votes to the BN. Sigh. :mad:

I for one have sworn to influence everyone i know who are not registered to register and vote against this racist and corrupted govt. Every one must do their part no matter how insignificant it may seem.

CS Chua
06-04-2007, 07:18 PM
Can someone explain to me how come our current ADUN is from the BN if so many of you are "enlightened voters"? Perhaps we are few among many. :D I think there are a lot of silent supporters for the BN, whether it is for pragmatic reason or the fear factor. Whatever it is, I hope the LRT will not be an election issue. Just bring it in because it is the right thing to do.

newpdg003
06-04-2007, 07:36 PM
I have different opinion. If we vote for BN, the traffic jam remain happen even they build LRT. If people don't believe what I said, we can do this experiment. Because a lot of example already showed BN government unable to solve traffic jam. Traffic jam is just a small case but BN still unable to handle, maybe they always think plenty of car making traffic congestion represent the country is rich. Unlike other country may have traffic jam too but their government try a lot of methods to minimize traffic congestion and not just sit down and dream.

We don't know about opposition party but it is possible to give them a chance to win election. And I suppose, they could continue the LRT project and do even better than BN.

cskok8
07-04-2007, 06:23 PM
Can someone explain to me how come our current ADUN is from the BN if so many of you are "enlightened voters"? Perhaps we are few among many. :D I think there are a lot of silent supporters for the BN, whether it is for pragmatic reason or the fear factor. Whatever it is, I hope the LRT will not be an election issue. Just bring it in because it is the right thing to do.

Of course it is an election issue. Did you notice that in Machap there are suddenly so many new projects; community halls, roads resurfacing, new facilities for Felda schemes. All in the name of bringing development to the area. Only BN can provide funds for development. Vote BN.

But wait, where does the money come from. Hey it is MY money also. I pay my taxes. :mad:

newpdg003
28-04-2007, 12:19 AM
LRT projects set for next year

THE open tender process for upcoming LRT projects is expected to be completed by the end of this year and the projects are expected to start early next year, said Finance Ministry parliamentary secretary Datuk Seri Dr Hilmi Yahaya.

“The extension of the Ampang-Sri Petaling and the Kelana Jaya lines is expected to be finished by 2010 while the new LRT project should be ready by either 2011 or 2012,” he said when winding up debates during the Supplementary Supply Bill.

The Star line, or now known as the Ampang-Sri Petaling line, would be extended for about another 15km to Bandar Kinrara, Puchong.

As for the Kelana Jaya line (formerly known as Putra), it would be extended to Bandar Utama and Subang Jaya.

The new line would run for about 40km from Kota Damansara to Cheras and Balakong, he said.

Recently, the Government announced that it would set aside RM10bil to upgrade LRT services in the Klang Valley.

The urban rail expansion is under Inspak or the Restructuring and Integration of the Klang Valley Public Transportation System.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/4/20/parliament/17497457&sec=parliament

please check this news.

The LRT projects planning in earlier will start on next year. From the news, Kelana Jaya Line plan extend to Bandar Utama and Subang area. Apart of the Kota Damansara-cheras line in Damansara, the Kelana Jaya also extend their service in Bandar Utama will bring benefit to Damansara citizen and improve the traffic issue.

concern!!!
28-04-2007, 01:13 AM
hope they wont be NATO again ... or mayb pre-election sweetie

ng
28-04-2007, 06:55 AM
The Star line, or now known as the Ampang-Sri Petaling line, would be extended for about another 15km to Bandar Kinrara, Puchong.

.

The last time I read, it is supposed to be extended to IOI mall, puchong jaya and not bandar kinrara.

Bandar kinrara is nearer to sri petaling. Is this a mistake or what ? Does anybody know ?

CS Chua
28-04-2007, 10:19 AM
Do you know that one week after announcing the green light for the West Coast Highway (Banting to Taiping), it was postponed again? (but without the publicity.)

How do we know that this will not happen to our LRT? It may just be an election gimmick. All talk and no action - before and after the election. They had promised to reveal the plans in October 2006 but until now, there has been no news.

And how can they plan a tender process when they have not discuss their proposal with residents here? Don't you think they should first publicise their plans and invite the public to comment before tendering out the contracts? The whole process sucks. There is no respect for the residents whom they are supposed to serve.

Raikonen
28-04-2007, 01:57 PM
The LRT Extension should not be viewed as a election sweetener. Dont tie it to elections and vote for BN just because they promise to extend the line to USJ. It is the govt's basic responsibility to provide decent transportation.

newpdg003
28-04-2007, 03:27 PM
The last time I read, it is supposed to be extended to IOI mall, puchong jaya and not bandar kinrara.

Bandar kinrara is nearer to sri petaling. Is this a mistake or what ? Does anybody know ?

Maybe it was the mistake made from news reporter or maybe they suddenly change the plans, who know? Government announce some thing without discuss with citizens.

The news already showed this example, I never know the KJ line want to extend to Bandar Utama, I though they just extend to Subang and USJ, only the new line will pass along the Bandar Utama.

And they never say about what will the stations build in either extending line or new line.

I understand that the LRT route planning works are so difficult, especially everyone hope the LRT can serve for their area. But some time the RapidKL company has to consider the demand of population, the suitable place to build the station and others peripherals. I heard they faced problem on planning the new line from Kota Damansara to Cheras because Bandar Utama and TTDI citizen hope the new line also serve to their area. So, if new line serve for Bandar Utama, then TTDI citizen cannot use this new LRT line finally they need shuttle bus fetch them to Bandar Utama LRT station. Hence, they maybe need to plan another LRT line maybe extend from KJ line to Bandar Utama, then new Kota Damansara LRT line can pass along TTDI area and serve them LRT service.

Anyway, we still looking the confirm answer and clear information from Government, the public transport minister.

CS Chua
29-04-2007, 10:20 AM
The plans will be announced before the general election. Trust me. I am getting very good at this game.

kmlim
29-04-2007, 03:15 PM
Do you know that one week after announcing the green light for the West Coast Highway (Banting to Taiping), it was postponed again? (but without the publicity.)

Mind sharing with us where you obtained this info?

CS Chua
29-04-2007, 07:26 PM
One of the many regions and projects quite dependant on this highway is in Puncak Alam. I went to see some bungalow lands which are near one of the proposed interchanges of the West Coast Highway. I was told this information.

This highway has been on and off for the last 10 years because it is a direct competitor to the North-South Highway. I feel that the government is not being fair to the public. Once completed it is much nearer to Taiping than the current highway and it will certainly affect the volume of traffic there. It will also bring a lot of economic development to the west coast. But sadly, the public will have to wait longer. I really wish the information is wrong.

sinleong
29-04-2007, 11:32 PM
The plans will be announced before the general election. Trust me. I am getting very good at this game.

yeah... and WHEN we vote lee hwa beng out, we probably won't get the LRT extension after all..

CS Chua
30-04-2007, 12:36 AM
I am very certain that if the opposition takes over, the LRT will definitely come in. Simply because they want to take back the seat. Look at the millions of dollars poured into Ijok and Machap. Why! you can even have 2 LRTs into SJ/USJ! :D

tohca
30-04-2007, 05:06 PM
I am very certain that if the opposition takes over, the LRT will definitely come in. Simply because they want to take back the seat. Look at the millions of dollars poured into Ijok and Machap. Why! you can even have 2 LRTs into SJ/USJ! :D

I second that Chua. Let's not allow BN to use the scare tactics on us. BTW. my current constituency is Old Klang Road, how do I change it to SJ? My MyKad already has my SJ address. Do I have to go to Putrajaya to change it?

CS Chua
30-04-2007, 07:41 PM
I was wondering about that too. I lived in Taman Tun for 10 years and we are still registered there so we may go there to vote. However I do not mind tranferring it to this constituency. Anybody else know how to do this?

newpdg003
30-04-2007, 08:07 PM
Generally, I disagree the government use it as a general election tools. Building LRT is bring convenience and benefit to public, not for win general election purpose. In fact, I never hear Singapore Government, British Government build underground just for election purpose. Even Taiwan underground also not build for election purpose, although their underground also involve on politic issue.

We can see many places require LRT, Kepong, Selayang, Jalan Ipoh and so on because of majority population. But quite don't understand why there is no LRT station there, even not in the future plan? Why?

sinleong
30-04-2007, 11:12 PM
the singapore government is the most notorious in using development to bribe voters. for a very long time, the people living in Hougang and Potong Pasir never had any MRT services. it was only recently, the government just extended the MRT service to these wards in the hope of trying to win the voters over.

On Chiam See Thong, (formerly of Raub, Pahang) in Potong Pasir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiam_See_Tong) :
"For many, this was a surprise victory for Chiam, as the People's Action Party had offered a S$80 million upgrading package for the residents of Potong Pasir, and had even brought in the Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong to win votes for the PAP."

newpdg003
01-05-2007, 12:12 AM
Some Singapore areas do not have MRT, but at least there is LRT over there, or even, they provided the feeder bus service connect to MRT station. Singapore also need money to build all this facilities, therefore, they spend many year to develop MRT and their aim to make MRT system like London.

Compare to KL LRT system, the LRT just cover certain part of KL. Even the new LRT line will release in KL still not cover enough for the whole KL. Kepong, Selanyang and other part of KL have majority population however still not in the list of future LRT plan. I can say, KL remain traffic jam even the new LRT start to operate. Should government use the brain think of improving public transport.

Although Singapore is very small country, but it doesn't mean Singapore Government using development to obtain the support from resident. Otherwise, every country government should do similar procedure. In fact,the reason why Singapore gain a lot of support and trust from resident because they really promise their citizen and they really do something. The most important thing is , they focus on develop economic and technology to making Singapore become better country. Unlike our government, the real lier, they can promise you something only if the election will coming soon. After the election, everything gone.

kwchang
01-05-2007, 12:38 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how people will find the smallest excuse for the inadequacies for the things done by the S'pore govt but find the smallest inadequacies of our own government and blow it up to amazing proportions. This is evident in newpdg003's comments.

If someone pats the govt's back for development projects, there will be someone else who will suggest that these development projects were set up to put money into some cronies' pockets.

So, moral of my story is that you can never find anything good with the current government ... because people are so prejudiced to think only one way. What really makes me sad is that some people seem to be very happy with negative thoughts ... to the extent they lose the ability to think OBJECTIVELY.

AllUrban
01-05-2007, 01:12 PM
All Im gonna say is that whether the government buys votes or not, whether they promise development to their friends or not, things still have to happen in the people's interest first and foremost.

It really doesnt matter where the LRT goes, except that the route chosen is the best design and the money spent is the best, reasonable amount of money...not the most expensive option but not the lowest bidder either.

LRT and major development projects have to be there for 50-100 years so they have to be thought through carefully.

I am starting to think that an extension to Subang Jaya might be great long term, but short term is what we have to consider...what happens between now and 2011-12

I support an extension of the LRT from KJ LRT to LSD station (Lembah Subang Depot, not....) by late 2008, and bringing in feeder bus service to SJ and USJ.

Since the Subang Kelana Link will be opened in late 2008, it can be used for a direct service through SJ and USJ. Adding bus lanes on Pers. Kewajipan would also be a good idea because there will still be a net increase in the number of traffic lanes (as I have explained before).

I have reason to believe the extension to SJ will follow the SK link until Subang Parade, so I think that a bus route along that link would be a good idea.

This will give USJ residents a taste of the LRT service to come, as well as create a healthy demand for the public transit service which will encourage the use of LRT and buses in our community. With the arrival of LRT, current bus routes can be changed to bring better service into our communities, not just the main roads.

Cheers, m

newpdg003
01-05-2007, 09:48 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how people will find the smallest excuse for the inadequacies for the things done by the S'pore govt but find the smallest inadequacies of our own government and blow it up to amazing proportions. This is evident in newpdg003's comments.

If someone pats the govt's back for development projects, there will be someone else who will suggest that these development projects were set up to put money into some cronies' pockets.

So, moral of my story is that you can never find anything good with the current government ... because people are so prejudiced to think only one way. What really makes me sad is that some people seem to be very happy with negative thoughts ... to the extent they lose the ability to think OBJECTIVELY.

There is not the comparison between Singapore Gov and Malaysia Gov,man.
Basically, I just mention why Singapore Gov easier gains the support from resident than other party because they gain a lot of trust from their citizen. And I mentioned this is not because they purposely develop country just for election purpose but promise the citizen to develop country better. And you should understand how our government develop the country, just because of the election? You can see many good example, even in Ijok recently.

So, I don't want to see the development of LRT also a tools for our government use to gain the support from resident during election. I want our government is fair enough and take effort to development LRT in Klang Valley, and make public transport effective, this is what I want to see. I don't expect our KL LRT looks like London tube, but at least bring more conveniences enough.

fabregas
01-05-2007, 10:53 PM
I think that KW Chang has a point. In any case, any political party will make promises to bring goodies if elected. But in the case of BN in Ijiok, its happens to be just before the by election. I mean BN had 4 years to come up with the goodies, so that it would not look so obvious. PAP is smarter in the sense they provide goodies throughout their term. But nevertheless, they do indirectly withold goodies like the MRT and housing in opposition controlled areas. If you look at Singapore, they really have no credible opposition to speak of. The opposition there got squeezed , oppressed thru so many legal suits. And speaking of nepotism, the father is the senior minister, son is the prime minister and daughter in law controls Tamasek Holdings a multibillion govt investment arm. I know people will say that its a coincidence that they are all so capable. But conflict of interest can arise. So the Singapore govt are no angels themselves.

sabre23t
05-05-2007, 01:51 PM
Hi, it was interesting reading the last 17 pages or so. :cool: Anyway, instead of jumping into hot topics like "LRT vs monorail vs tram", I'll pickup on one minor misconception I noticed ...

I understand that the LRT route planning works are so difficult, especially everyone hope the LRT can serve for their area. But some time the RapidKL company has to consider the demand of population, the suitable place to build the station and others peripherals.
The wikipedia article on Prasarana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syarikat_Prasarana_Negara_Berhad) says ...
"Syarikat Prasarana Negara Berhad (SPNB) ... is a 100% government-owned company which was set up to own the assets of several public transport services in Kuala Lumpur .... SPNB owns the assets of three light rail transit (LRT) lines: Ampang Line, Kelana Jaya Line and Sri Petaling Line ... It also owns the fleet of buses previously belonging to Intrakota and Cityliner ... All of these services are operated by another specially created government-owned company Rangkaian Pengangkutan Integrasi Deras Sdn Bhd (Rapid KL)."

The RapidKL about us (http://www.rapidkl.com.my/about_us.htm) says ...
"Rangkaian Pengangkutan Integrasi Deras Sdn Bhd (RapidKL) is the company tasked with providing an integrated public transport system in the Klang Valley incorporating rail and bus services."

Hence, I doubt RapidKL is doing much "LRT route planning" for the prospective new routes. Insteady they'll be concentrating on operating the existing rail and bus services.

Neither would they be calling the tender for designing and building those new LRT routes. I think the asset owners Prasarana/SPNB would be doing that.

newpdg003
05-05-2007, 10:34 PM
So what is the situation about extension route and new route of LRT planning? In fact, the news paper stated that the extension route and new route of LRT planning will start on early next year. This is only the confirm answer we get:

( Admin note - please refer to the link. Do not copy-paste copyright articles )

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/4/20/parliament/17497457&sec=parliament

Well, everybody still remember Mtrans proposed the 4 new lines for monorail project? How is going on?

sabre23t
05-05-2007, 11:57 PM
So what is the situation about extension route and new route of LRT planning? ... Ampang-Sri Petaling line, would be extended for about another 15km to Bandar Kinrara, Puchong ... Kelana Jaya line ... would be extended to Bandar Utama and Subang Jaya ...
I'd be speculating just like you. However, as AllUrban earlier posted, there are a number of trip generating places that would surely be served along both extended routes. Places such as Subang Parade, Taipan, Summit, Sunway Pyramid, IOI Mall, Kinrara. I also expect the there'll be a common interchange station between Ampang-Sri Petaling line and Kelana Jaya line, hence making a southern LRT loop inducing some "reverse flow" travel.

The planners challenge would of course to optimize the length of the route, construction cost, land acquisition cost, while still serving (almost) all the major trip generating places.

BTW, regarding the nice "dream KL Transit schematic" AllUrban posted earlier (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=203134&postcount=175), I notice it was drawn by Fikir Runding Sdn Bhd (http://wikimapia.org/1871200/) in Bukit Antarabangsa.