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tupai
24-12-2005, 02:39 PM
Doggone it! today's Star states that the Marpo (dog lovers, keepers, ngo etc) had a meeting with shah alam city council yesterday...blah blah blah...then somewhere down the line the deputy mayor zaba che rus have this to say.
(I quote The Star) ...70% of shah alam's 450,000 population were malays. " As such the city council has to consider their sensitivity, esp in the religious context," he said. "This is not only in the case of keeping dogs, but also other matters including the call for prayer/azan for the non-muslims"

OK, pray tell me , the blur one, what the ikan has the call of Azan got to do with dogs? What? Again? Do i hear that the dogs' barks & howls are louder than the Azan...or was it that one is competing to be heard by the 30% or 150,000 not-so-important residents?

So, now what? status quo as in no-dog rulez and Azan will be toned down to decent non-ear splitting decibel? WHAT????

My year-end wish:
Dear heavenly God of all faiths, colours, races, breeds, please bless this land called malaysia. Please , please too open the eyes of the blind, ignorant, racist and stoopid policy makers.

Yang Amat Bodoh lato tupai

pucman
24-12-2005, 03:15 PM
Doggone it! today's Star states that the Marpo (dog lovers, keepers, ngo etc) had a meeting with shah alam city council yesterday...blah blah blah...then somewhere down the line the deputy mayor zaba che rus have this to say.
(I quote The Star) ...70% of shah alam's 450,000 population were malays. " As such the city council has to consider their sensitivity, esp in the religious context," he said. "This is not only in the case of keeping dogs, but also other matters including the call for prayer/azan for the non-muslims"

OK, pray tell me , the blur one, what the ikan has the call of Azan got to do with dogs? What? Again? Do i hear that the dogs' barks & howls are louder than the Azan...or was it that one is competing to be heard by the 30% or 150,000 not-so-important residents?

So, now what? status quo as in no-dog rulez and Azan will be toned down to decent non-ear splitting decibel? WHAT????

My year-end wish:
Dear heavenly God of all faiths, colours, races, breeds, please bless this land called malaysia. Please , please too open the eyes of the blind, ignorant, racist and stoopid policy makers.

Yang Amat Bodoh lato tupai

Even in non-malay majority area, the azan is played out very loud even though there are TV and handphones to play azan. :confused: In a malay majority area like shah alam, do you think it will be softer ?

Stop arguing with them, it is not as if the non-malays have nowhere to go. Go and buy a house in MPSJ, MPPJ, DBKL area. :D

yvonnefoong
24-12-2005, 03:42 PM
I really don't understand the muslims. Dogs are another of God's creation and should be treasured. What kind of religion teaches their believers to kill an animal they dislike? If animal have rights, they are seriously violating it.

I'm not being racist or anti-islam. I'm just expressing my discontentment by the way animals are treated in this country. To the strict muslims, dogs are worse than dirt, so to speak. In Shah Alam it is as simple as catching dogs and put them to sleep. (God knows if they really enthanize them the proper way). But in the rural kampungs, they beat and kill dogs whenever they like. Other races have to keep their dogs in secret, otherwise, they'll be killed for no apparent reason. I feel this is barbaric. What kind of religion agree with killings?

Here in the city center, national leaders are talking about vision 2020 and globalisation. But look closely, Malaysia is far from being a civilised country. If they can't even treat animals properly, what about humans? Without love and peace for all, all those skyscrapers and beautiful nightview is just a fake facade.

What is the meaning of muhibbah when dogs are largely ill treated? Aren't they a part of this eco-system, of this world?

I understand that our muslim leaders like to do things their way, and yet talk about being at par with other countries. Why can't they look at Malaysia from an international context?

Haih... I just don't understand lah. Sorry, please excuse me for once. Needed to unload.

vsat
24-12-2005, 04:34 PM
I grew up in Kelantan. You guys know the political situation in Kelantan and the people there. The azan is a normal thing for me. In fact, I love hearing the azan at 5:20am in the morning and mind you, I'm Chinese. Growing up in Kelantan I guess made me accustomed to the Azan. But that shouldn't be an excuse for me being accustomed to it. If I were to be born in Penang, I'm sure I'll feel the same way.

Why can't you guys tolerate this? After all, we're the minority here. Please have respect for one's religion. I don't believe in God at all but I tolerate everybody's religion.

And the worst part is, you guys are advocating your children to despise the Azan and that's not how you want your kids brought up.

yvonnefoong
24-12-2005, 05:12 PM
Vsat: Why, you think we actually went complaining to the imams and threw pancakes at mosque goers to vent our frustrations? Whoever said we despise it anyway? The feeling of despise and disagreement is different, u know.

Anyway, I believe the azan blarrings have a purpose. ;-)

Harmony
24-12-2005, 09:24 PM
I really don't understand the muslims. Dogs are another of God's creation and should be treasured. What kind of religion teaches their believers to kill an animal they dislike? If animal have rights, they are seriously violating it.

I'm not being racist or anti-islam. I'm just expressing my discontentment by the way animals are treated in this country. To the strict muslims, dogs are worse than dirt, so to speak. In Shah Alam it is as simple as catching dogs and put them to sleep. (God knows if they really enthanize them the proper way). But in the rural kampungs, they beat and kill dogs whenever they like. Other races have to keep their dogs in secret, otherwise, they'll be killed for no apparent reason. I feel this is barbaric. What kind of religion agree with killings?


I am no expert nor Islamic scholar but from this article, http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Environment/article04.shtml#top
Islam promotes love towards animals, including dogs. It's unfortunate that some Muslims ill-treat them; but I believe this is due to their ignorance in what the Islamic faith preaches.

For more understanding on Islam, Suggest you read articles in: http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/index.shtml

yvonnefoong
25-12-2005, 01:09 AM
Hey, Harmony. Thanks for the article! That makes much sense. But how did their God's word got misunderstood today? Most malays are against even at the sight of dogs. Why ah?

bobkee
25-12-2005, 02:59 AM
Thanks for the link Harmony.

I think we ought to exercise objectivity whenever we refer to people of different cultural and/or religious backgrounds from us. The onus is on us to find out the facts from all sides before making any sweeping statements. Maybe a good reminder for those of us who are Christians, especially in this season where we commemorate the birth of Christ :

Stop judging others, and you will not be judged. Stop criticizing others, or it will all come back on you. If you forgive others, you will be forgiven.

Luke 6:37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%206:37;&version=51;)Have a blessed Christmas all.

Teeque
25-12-2005, 03:41 AM
Hey, Harmony. Thanks for the article! That makes much sense. But how did their God's word got misunderstood today? Most malays are against even at the sight of dogs. Why ah?

Perhaps they hv deviated frm the original Islam teachings?

Well, any muslim brethrens here can enlighten us?

tupai
25-12-2005, 12:03 PM
The problem with most of us here is that we tend to skirt the issue.

I posted the thread to get some understanding why the depty mayo whatever his name is, linked dog ownership to azan?

it puzzles me to have this thread on the verge of condemning a religion or the calls for prayer/atonement of multiple sins(?) PLUS how people can read that this thread encourages children to condemn azan:confused: DUH!

Yang Amat Blur lato tupai

p/s I still believe that if dog owners pick up their smarty dog poo, 90% of the complaints would stop instantly. Otherwise, imagine one day duh mayo step on smarty poopoo outside his italian marbled palace...the consequences would be, all of selangor will hv ultrastrict rules on ownership of dog.
Stooopid Irresponsible dog owners caused all this fuss! :mad:
pp/s maybe 10% of the complaints are unleashed dog biting children, postman, utilities meter reader, chasing loud motorcycles etc :p

mallanhead
25-12-2005, 06:02 PM
As a muslim and malay myself, I can't understand how and why some Malays really scare or despise of dog. Dog roam freely in Arabic country Saudi. Nobody kick them up or throw stone at them. Eventhough we cant touch dog or dog are haram to us, doesnt mean that we can dera them. That has nothing to do by being a Muslim. It just the mentality of some people.

orchipalar
25-12-2005, 06:49 PM
Err...a Muslim neighbour once told Orchi...there is nothing that forbids a Muslim to touch a dog or keep one...but it is believed that Muslims are forbidden to come in contact or touch the nose...n mouth...or something like that... :)

Ahem...Orchi wonders too...why some Malay Muslims would go to the extent of wearing gloves...whenever their jobs or tasks...involve hand or finger contacts with the general public such as toll booths users...who could be non-Muslims or Muslims alike...??? :confused:

Should it be haram for a female Malay Muslim toll booth cashiers to touch or come in contact with Orchi...why is it NOT so...for a male Malay Muslim toll booth cashier to do so...??? :confused:

Should the same can be said with the Malay Muslim cashiers or the workers...in a restaurant or stall or a shop or even the supermarkets n deparmental stores...operated by Muslims...why is that...they do NOT wear gloves whenever the collect monies from their non Muslim customers...???

aloy105
25-12-2005, 06:56 PM
the deputy mayor saying..sensitivity of the majority muslim with regards to call to prayer/azan by non-muslim....... non-muslim in their majority area has never complain of muslim in their azan., we beleive and understand , their religous rights.. Y is he bringing up this issue now..plain no sense talk fr a politician,racist in nature.. shd go iSA..

wsp
25-12-2005, 07:21 PM
the deputy mayor saying..sensitivity of the majority muslim with regards to call to prayer/azan by non-muslim....... non-muslim in their majority area has never complain of muslim in their azan., we beleive and understand , their religous rights.. Y is he bringing up this issue now..plain no sense talk fr a politician,racist in nature.. shd go iSA..

To read the whole story, please check this link :http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/12/24/central/12936394&sec=central

In its earlier reports, the city council had required owners of banned dogs to surrender their pets immediately. However, now they are allowed to keep them until the dogs die.

The dialogue was part of Marpo's efforts in voicing out its objection to the ruling. It holds on to the belief that “it is everyone's right to own a pet.''“We insist that pet owners be consulted when laws involving their animals are drafted out to help arrive at an effective and pragmatic approach to better pet management,'' said Marpo pro tem president Dr Jon S. Satyamoorthy. “Everybody should be entitled to a pet, regardless of whether it is a dog or a cat.” Marpo has garnered more than 10,000 signatures, mostly residents in Shah Alam and Subang Jaya, who objected to the ruling.

Dr Jon said he was disappointed by the outcome of the dialogue. “It did not meet our objectives nor was the ruling scraped,'' he said.

In response, Za'ba said 70% of Shah Alam's 450,000-strong population were Malays. “As such the city council has to consider their sensitivity, especially in the religious context,'' he said.

“This is not only in the case of keeping dogs, but also in other matters including the call for prayers (Azan) for the non-Muslims.''

Za'ba said the city council was awaiting a comprehensive guideline over the keeping of dog from the Housing and Local Government Ministry, which then would be applicable nationwide. Currently each local authority has its own set of ruling on the matter.

“For now we have to abide by the existing rule.''

yvonnefoong
25-12-2005, 07:25 PM
I don't mind tolerating the azan, but if you think about it, the hindus, buddhists, and christians are not allowed to practice their religion openly. Any rites, rituals, prayers, and such have to be done in private. Permits for religious building construction are severely restricted. Whereas the muslim mosques can blare their speakers loudly, to the extend of waking people up from their sleep.

So, it's not about the religion. It's the government not being fair. I was taught that in political context, tolerance means accepting injustice.

By the way, Vsat, how far away do you live from the mosque?

p/s: Yes, islam preaches kindness towards all living beings. That's why I used the word "muslim" and not "islam". I'm talking about some of their devotees, and not the religion.

pucman
25-12-2005, 09:04 PM
I don't mind tolerating the azan, but if you think about p/s: Yes, islam preaches kindness towards all living beings. That's why I used the word "muslim" and not "islam". I'm talking about some of their devotees, and not the religion.

It depends on how loud the loudspeaker are and how deep the sleeper is.
Maybe he should try sleeping in a house when the mosque is blasting out very loud at 100 dB.

Some sleeper can still sleep even though there is a fire and screaming in the house. :D

aloy105
25-12-2005, 11:00 PM
the deputy shd just keep to dogs, n not abt other religious practice...malaysia is multi-racial, multi religion....so just keep to animals.since he is against animals/dogs....non-muslims hve never complain abt azan, even in non-muslim majority area..actually i too live quite near a mosque..rather use to the many'calls' daily,, many times never even realise the loud call.

USJ27Resident
26-12-2005, 02:22 AM
Islam promotes love towards animals, including dogs. It's unfortunate that some Muslims ill-treat them; but I believe this is due to their ignorance in what the Islamic faith preaches.

How true for the fingers to have tapped the right keys....

Sometimes, there are believers that in their belief that they understand the faith.... preaches out loud (as loud as possible, and intimidate others to believe that) what he "believes" is the right thing or the right way...

Ignorance is not an excuse for a reason to justify a cause.... !!

ameer shah
27-12-2005, 12:19 PM
my dear forumners,

its so shallow to come up with this kind of topics for discussions. we are living in a muktiracial country where the official religion is islam, though others are NOT prohibited to practise their own other religions...feel glad, feel blessed that we live in this harmonious country...islam, christian, buddhist, hindu all should not try to critize each other coz if we do, we could find 1001 reasons to .......................

my suggestions, stop whining, if you dont like shah alam, there are still many places on this bumi malaysia to live harmoniously.....

wake up and realize, start comparing with other unfortunate countries............

JoeJaffar
27-12-2005, 03:04 PM
Some clarifications:

1) Islam doesn't say that muslim has to kill dogs. Islam allows a muslim to own a dog for the purpose of security and hunting. But a muslim has to sama' whenever the skin comes into contact with any part of a dog, especially the wet parts. So to make it safe and convenient, most muslim will try to avoid touching or getting touched by dogs. It has nothing to do with hate.

2) Azan is, if I can recall what I've learnt, is a must. It's to inform muslims in the area that it's time for one of 5 daily prayers.

3) Muhrims in islam means one's sister, brother, mother, father, uncle or aunties, in it's simplest explanation. One that we muslims are forbade from marrying. Thus, if the skin touches, it is still halal, the wudhu is still ok and we can keep on performing our prayers or read the Quran. But between non-muhrim, the touching of skin is considered haram. That's why some of the toll-both operators wear the gloves, partly for this reason and most probably for hygienic reasons too.

All these are stated in Islam. The extend of interpretation is still dependent on the person itself. He/she may observe strictly on certain things, such as in 1) or 3). But to say Islam condones the killing of dogs or it's a must to turn on the speakers very loud, isn't right. Don't blame Islam for the (mis)interpretations.

ameer shah
27-12-2005, 03:23 PM
Some clarifications:

1) Islam doesn't say that muslim has to kill dogs. Islam allows a muslim to own a dog for the purpose of security and hunting. But a muslim has to sama' whenever the skin comes into contact with any part of a dog, especially the wet parts. So to make it safe and convenient, most muslim will try to avoid touching or getting touched by dogs. It has nothing to do with hate.

2) Azan is, if I can recall what I've learnt, is a must. It's to inform muslims in the area that it's time for one of 5 daily prayers.

3) Muhrims in islam means one's sister, brother, mother, father, uncle or aunties, in it's simplest explanation. One that we muslims are forbade from marrying. Thus, if the skin touches, it is still halal, the wudhu is still ok and we can keep on performing our prayers or read the Quran. But between non-muhrim, the touching of skin is considered haram. That's why some of the toll-both operators wear the gloves, partly for this reason and most probably for hygienic reasons too.

All these are stated in Islam. The extend of interpretation is still dependent on the person itself. He/she may observe strictly on certain things, such as in 1) or 3). But to say Islam condones the killing of dogs or it's a must to turn on the speakers very loud, isn't right. Don't blame Islam for the (mis)interpretations.

Thanks for the reply my dear Brother.
Islam is indeed a religion of freedom, deepen thy knowlwdge in it and you shall see.

dirk_diggler
27-12-2005, 03:29 PM
Down south, all mosques are banned from using loudspeakers. Instead, a dedicated radion station is there to serve their needs. Never heard anyone complaining about the noise or even bringing it up at all.

When it comes to dogs, the laws are strict and clear cut. Don't see any stray dogs or dog poo around the beautiful parks in this beautiful city.

Meritocracy works down south. It is already a developed nation while Msia is still struggling to achieve that come 14 years later. Shameful.

orchipalar
27-12-2005, 03:40 PM
Err...thanks to dear JoeJaffar:)...guess it all boils down to proper education...understanding n practices for the faith of Islam among Muslims n non-Muslims...in our daily lives together...

Hence...more informations from more Muslim forumers here...would certainly be more helpful... :)

AllUrban
27-12-2005, 03:40 PM
Meritocracy works down south. It is already a developed nation while Msia is still struggling to achieve that come 14 years later. Shameful.

Sure, but what about freedom of speech?

S'pore is a lovely place, but methinks they arent really building a harmonious community...the goal is tolerance and not understanding.

The difference: Tolerance allows prejudice, stereotyping, and racism to build up inside you. Understanding allows prejudice, stereotyping, and racism to melt away.

As long as the goal is just tolerance, it is very easy to upset the apple cart.

AllUrban
27-12-2005, 03:49 PM
Some clarifications:

1) Islam doesn't say that muslim has to kill dogs. Islam allows a muslim to own a dog for the purpose of security and hunting. But a muslim has to sama' whenever the skin comes into contact with any part of a dog, especially the wet parts. So to make it safe and convenient, most muslim will try to avoid touching or getting touched by dogs. It has nothing to do with hate.

All these are stated in Islam. The extend of interpretation is still dependent on the person itself. He/she may observe strictly on certain things, such as in 1) or 3).

I know of many muslim people who have dogs, but keep them outside of the house. My opinion is that traditionally, the dog is a working animal and "belongs" outside.

As for touching a dog, (or cat or other animal for that matter), Praying has to be done in as pure a state as possible, this is something that cuts across all religions and cultures. It wouldnt be proper to touch an animal and then pray, and if you are exposed to the saliva, then it should be washed off properly.

It is understandable that dogs can be dangerous to humans, and many people are afraid of dogs...perhaps this fear, combined with ignorance of the teachings, and the lack of a serious punishment, are what lead people to beat animals...I can only say that this has nothing to do with islamic teachings, because cruelty of any form is wrong.

By the way, Ive seen Malay, Chinese and Indian people kicking dogs and cats, and it always gets me very angry.

dirk_diggler
27-12-2005, 03:49 PM
Sure, but what about freedom of speech?

S'pore is a lovely place, but methinks they arent really building a harmonious community...the goal is tolerance and not understanding.

The difference: Tolerance allows prejudice, stereotyping, and racism to build up inside you. Understanding allows prejudice, stereotyping, and racism to melt away.

As long as the goal is just tolerance, it is very easy to upset the apple cart.

Which part of Msia do you think there is freedom of speech? Show me which Msian newspaper can print whatever holds true without beign threatened by ISA.

Regardless of whether it is mere tolerance or understanding, on both accounts the south wins hands down. Why? There are Jews and Synagogues here. Can I say the same thing about Msia?

chrisbachang
27-12-2005, 03:53 PM
Sure, but what about freedom of speech?

S'pore is a lovely place, but methinks they arent really building a harmonious community...the goal is tolerance and not understanding.

The difference: Tolerance allows prejudice, stereotyping, and racism to build up inside you. Understanding allows prejudice, stereotyping, and racism to melt away.

As long as the goal is just tolerance, it is very easy to upset the apple cart.

I quite agree. Singapore practices what is known as 'Carved Culture'. Its goal is tolerance. In Malaysia, its aim can be understanding but until she achieves it, it is still tolerance, through gritted teeth. My personal view is that there is no such thing as understanding (when used to embrace different races and communities of a country) and at best, tolerance will have to suffice until the next breaking point.

chrisbachang
27-12-2005, 03:57 PM
Sure, but what about freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech comes with responsibility and with it, comes self-censorship and self-restraints. Tell me a country which has freedom of speech. It is all relative.

billy
27-12-2005, 04:20 PM
p/s I still believe that if dog owners pick up their smarty dog poo, 90% of the complaints would stop instantly. Otherwise, imagine one day duh mayo step on smarty poopoo outside his italian marbled palace...the consequences would be, all of selangor will hv ultrastrict rules on ownership of dog.
Stooopid Irresponsible dog owners caused all this fuss! :mad:
pp/s maybe 10% of the complaints are unleashed dog biting children, postman, utilities meter reader, chasing loud motorcycles etc :p

Which poo is more smelly, cat poo or dog poo? Infact, I step on cat poo more than dog poo, once you step into your car, the smell lasted atleast one week.
Why the cat control was not discussed?

In Malaysia, we do have the law to take care of the dog owner. Why not use this channel? Isn't this an opportunise for someone do not like the dog to "rub-it-in"?

Every year, car accidents in Malaysia cost thousands of lives, can we banned them so that no want will die in accidents. Better still, cut-off all the "man you-know-what" so that no rape will happen in this country.

As for Azan prayer, I think all Malaysian already get used to it. Is a non issue nowaday. The deputy mayor shouldn't brought a sensitive issue up and to justify the dog matter. Very canning of him. This is how the politician play their game.

Will you ask a person doesn't like a child to take care of the orpanage? That is how the entire dog issues are handling in this country now. Always the "under-dog" in Malaysia.

SunwayKid
27-12-2005, 04:21 PM
Which part of Msia do you think there is freedom of speech? Show me which Msian newspaper can print whatever holds true without beign threatened by ISA...........

Similarly, is there any Singapore newspaper that prints whatever holds true without being whacked by the authoritarian gormen.


..............................
Regardless of whether it is mere tolerance or understanding, on both accounts the south wins hands down.Why? There are Jews and Synagogues here. Can I say the same thing about Msia?

We have states governed by opposition parties.....that is tolerance and understanding. We have churches, temples, mosques etc etc. One doesn't necessarily need to be seen to embrace the Jews to be seen as understanding and tolerant. There are companies operating in Malaysia owned by Jews.

What do you have in Spore -arresting Chee Soon Juan, and the lawsuits of slander against J.B Jeyaretnam, both opposition MPs are examples of understanding and tolerance? They have also been charged on the grounds of slander for political criticism and given what many feels to be unfair trials for speaking out. And getting rid of the SIA pilot who spoke out on behalf of his Spore colleagues who do not have the b*lls to do so......is that understanding and tolerant? :rolleyes:

Rocky19
27-12-2005, 04:22 PM
Which part of Msia do you think there is freedom of speech? Show me which Msian newspaper can print whatever holds true without beign threatened by ISA.

Regardless of whether it is mere tolerance or understanding, on both accounts the south wins hands down. Why? There are Jews and Synagogues here. Can I say the same thing about Msia?
Harakah, freely available. MalaysiaKini, on the net.Malaysia today too. read some chinese papers, they print lots of stuff. Now last I know none have been sued until they have to close shop or stop circulation since Star in 1987.Forget about threatened cos they are all in print. So what freedom is there in Singapore.How many papers/magazine have closed shop or stopped circulation. Are there any 'free' press? Just cos they have synagogues there means it is democratic? Any Jews in Malaysia? Do we need to built one for show and say there is democracy here?come on, there is more to it. We have opposition here and they can say almost anything and we don't sue them until they loose their pants or have to run to another country. Can singapore say the same of the opposition there. Forget about appointed opposition, that is for show only. We can still voice our opinions without fear.

Like chrisbachang said it is all relative. I suggest you read screenshots on Spore and Harry Lee for more info on meritocracy in Singapore. A Malay could not be a air force pilot till a few years ago. In Msia any Malaysian can be an air force pilot!!

Yes Singapore is more developed than Malaysia,will not argue about it.

dirk_diggler
27-12-2005, 04:41 PM
Similarly, is there any Singapore newspaper that prints whatever holds true without being whacked by the authoritarian gormen.



We have states governed by opposition parties.....that is tolerance and understanding. We have churches, temples, mosques etc etc. One doesn't necessarily need to be seen to embrace the Jews to be seen as understanding and tolerant. There are companies operating in Malaysia owned by Jews.

What do you have in Spore -arresting Chee Soon Juan, and the lawsuits of slander against J.B Jeyaretnam, both opposition MPs are examples of understanding and tolerance? They have also been charged on the grounds of slander for political criticism and given what many feels to be unfair trials for speaking out. And getting rid of the SIA pilot who spoke out on behalf of his Spore colleagues who do not have the b*lls to do so......is that understanding and tolerant? :rolleyes:

I never implied nor declared about the state of one's freedom of speech down south being better. My message to AllUrban was that Msia ain't all that rosy as he purported it to be.

So are you saying that Lim Guan Eng never went to prison for slander? Or Anwar was really holidaying in jail for some dirt digging?

SunwayKid
27-12-2005, 04:49 PM
I never implied nor declared about the state of one's freedom of speech down south being better. My message to AllUrban was that Msia ain't all that rosy as he purported it to be.

So are you saying that Lim Guan Eng never went to prison for slander? Or Anwar was really holidaying in jail for some dirt digging?

Quote.......which part of Malaysia do you think there is freedom of speech?.....Unquote.

Are Guan Eng and Anwar bankrupt? Are they banned from the country? :rolleyes:

dirk_diggler
27-12-2005, 05:04 PM
Harakah, freely available. MalaysiaKini, on the net.Malaysia today too. read some chinese papers, they print lots of stuff. Now last I know none have been sued until they have to close shop or stop circulation since Star in 1987.Forget about threatened cos they are all in print. So what freedom is there in Singapore.How many papers/magazine have closed shop or stopped circulation. Are there any 'free' press? Just cos they have synagogues there means it is democratic? Any Jews in Malaysia? Do we need to built one for show and say there is democracy here?come on, there is more to it. We have opposition here and they can say almost anything and we don't sue them until they loose their pants or have to run to another country. Can singapore say the same of the opposition there. Forget about appointed opposition, that is for show only. We can still voice our opinions without fear.

Like chrisbachang said it is all relative. I suggest you read screenshots on Spore and Harry Lee for more info on meritocracy in Singapore. A Malay could not be a air force pilot till a few years ago. In Msia any Malaysian can be an air force pilot!!

Yes Singapore is more developed than Malaysia,will not argue about it.

You can visit sammyboymod at delphiforums.com for all the rantings of every average joe down south.

But then again, didn't some of Msian opposition members been to jail for slander (I can think of Lim Guan Eng) or the infamous jailhouse black eye rock didn't actually happen? Putting someone high up on trial for butt humping and getting the charge thrown out doesn't say much for Msia's kangaroo court.

Never did imply that there is democracy with the existence of synagogues down south. Point being, will it ever happen in Msia? Now this is what I call tolerance and understanding. Remember the drape wearing turban heads protesting the visiting Israeli hockey team?

So you are implying that some MPs and senators were not barking out about bringing pornography charges against Teresa Kok?

Do you know that Malays and also and Indians has been the head of state down south? Their potraits grace the banknotes. So when will I see an ethnic Chinese or Indian being the agong? Try and top that fly boy.

dirk_diggler
27-12-2005, 05:19 PM
Quote.......which part of Malaysia do you think there is freedom of speech?.....Unquote.

Are Guan Eng and Anwar bankrupt? Are they banned from the country? :rolleyes:


Well, one did stay in jail under which could have been an indefinite period. The other got punched in the eye by the top cop. So you're saying that being charged with sodomy is better than being sued for slander?

SunwayKid
27-12-2005, 10:04 PM
Well, one did stay in jail under which could have been an indefinite period. The other got punched in the eye by the top cop. So you're saying that being charged with sodomy is better than being sued for slander?

This can go on and on and it is getting out of topic.

Please restrict your presumptions and implying to yourself. If you wish to play on racial issues, please stick to your own country.

Rocky19
27-12-2005, 11:29 PM
You can visit sammyboymod at delphiforums.com for all the rantings of every average joe down south.

But then again, didn't some of Msian opposition members been to jail for slander (I can think of Lim Guan Eng) or the infamous jailhouse black eye rock didn't actually happen? Putting someone high up on trial for butt humping and getting the charge thrown out doesn't say much for Msia's kangaroo court.

Never did imply that there is democracy with the existence of synagogues down south. Point being, will it ever happen in Msia? Now this is what I call tolerance and understanding. Remember the drape wearing turban heads protesting the visiting Israeli hockey team?

So you are implying that some MPs and senators were not barking out about bringing pornography charges against Teresa Kok?

Do you know that Malays and also and Indians has been the head of state down south? Their potraits grace the banknotes. So when will I see an ethnic Chinese or Indian being the agong? Try and top that fly boy.
Butt humping.OMG. Oral sex is illegal in Singapore and see who is talking about butt humping? Is butt humping legal in Spore? Try to take it to court boy and prove it is not legal there?

The MPs who talk crap about Theresa are in the same league as you cos you talk crap.Bark as much as you want friend. Guan Eng is still in the opposition and doing well.he has not lost his house and nor he is living in another country like yr fellow Sporean.Guan Eng still has people who have the courage to support him and not worry that they will loose their HDB upgrade!!! yes the black eye happened(u talking crap it didn't happen?, who said that and who said the MPs were not idiots. Only you like to think otherwise. Why cos you can believe in this country we object openly unlike down south) and the bro went to jail and even Anwar has forgiven him. Your case? Our justice system prevailed.

You singaporean think you are supreme.You don't understand the system and think you know it all. Understand the laws here. Sultans will remain a Malay and we are happy with that. Why don't you ask the Britain to have a singaporean as their Queen or King boy? :rolleyes:What happen to your Indian President who died in Canada? What did your PM, then SM and now M&M do to him. He died in another country like what? What honour did you guys give your President?And you are proud of a few that are on your currency note but how you treat that person?? At least we give our heads of state and leaders and even opposition leaders respect during their funeral.

all the forums are nice like the bloggers that got jailed.We have tons of forums and blogs that speak their mind. But do you have any in print like here boy? Top that boy!! ans yes we can protest in the streets. Can you protest in Spore like here?Long live Spore democracy!!! 4 people on a street corner in Singapore line up with placards and they send the riot police.LOL. :D :D

Sunway - he has to come to Msia website cos he can't give his opinions freely on the spore sites.

Screenshots (http://www.jeffooi.com/archives/2005/12/debunking_the_h.php), enjoy reading this dick boy

kwchang
28-12-2005, 12:37 AM
My apologies for letting this thread go completely out of context.
I did not read it because I thought it was another complaint on doggie laws in Shah Alam. Now that I was alerted to its contents, I had to look into the mess -

Tupai apparently wanted to know why a politician chose to mention the Azan in the same topic as keeping dogs. He actually got a good reply by WSP in post #14. That I believe should have ended the thread as the question was answered.

However, pet lovers took it as an opportunity to bombard the so-called unfair views on pet ownership by the muslim authorities and thence started the sidelines on religious issues.

Ameershah and JoeJaffar came on with nice explanations but no, the crowd wanted to say it their way. Dirk-diggler from Singapore (he was posting from a semi-conductor company in Singapore as indicated by his IP) made comparisons about how it is properly done in S'pore. All that of course created the catalyst for another round of M'sia-S'pore pie-throwing mayhem. That got diggler's goat and that was when he went crazy with his racist comments - perhaps thinking the S'pore govt can't arrest him over here for racist comments. From then on, the whole thread was derailed....

Diggler, please learn some restraint as shown by the senior members. I shall not remove the banana for some time and I might forget to remove it altogether. If you wish to stay on, please have some self-censorship and you may need to remind me to take the rotten banana away. Some of you were very close to being conscripted to my plantation...maybe next time eh?