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View Full Version : is local education really the best?



rabbiteeth84
12-12-2005, 10:14 AM
nowadays whenever i talk abot overseas study there must be some people snorted and argue with me that local is better instead of "wasting" money overseas. but instead from the financial view, i can't see any good in it. any suggestion?

fedup
12-12-2005, 10:37 AM
How can you even think of exposing your children to outside influence where meritocracy is being practiced? How can you let them develop their mind & thinking ? What will happen to them when they graduate & realise that jobs in govt service are handed out not based on merit but race. Stop this nonsencial thinking & if you can afford just let them do twinning based on the 3+o concept & they will never be any wiser and will demand equal rights when they can out to face the world. :p :p :p

Pets=Friends
12-12-2005, 10:39 AM
If your parents can buy you the best in education, by all means go overseas, seriously. But please come home a humble person, remember its not your birth right that you get an oversea education and cherish your parents, take care of them when they are old.

JackRyan1975
12-12-2005, 02:02 PM
Is local tertiary education the best? That depends on how you define "local". I would define it as any form of tertiary education offered by both local and foreign institutions in Malaysia. That includes the local institutions of higher learnings (unis, uni colleges, colleges), external programmes and professional qualifications.

Local education is good provided you are doing the right courses at the right institutions. It's being simplistic to say foreign is better than local or vice versa. Better only in terms of experiencing another culture does not mean it is better studying overseas than local on the whole. One must consider other things like the prestige of the degree-granting institution (good ones like Uni of London, Nottingham and Monash can be done entirely here, not to mention accountancy bodies like ACCA, CIMA, ICAEW, MICPA), quality of students (e.g good students can be found in UM. Those who got in with good STPM results) and lecturers and ultimately make an evaluation based on costs vs benefits.

Teeque
12-12-2005, 06:53 PM
It also depends how you define 'best' too. Gomen says we are 'among the best', but the rankings say no. Who u believe?

Joe Gomez
12-12-2005, 09:34 PM
is local education really the best? :D :D

Oh yeah ...... the very best !!!!!! hehehehehehehehehe ...... :D

We and our educationists shd keep repeating this often enough ........
who knows by 2020 we wld probably believe it .......
Wawasan 2020 wld have been achieved ...... ;) :cool:

sinleong
13-12-2005, 03:06 AM
i noticed there is a huge difference between local and overseas graduates. local graduates (including those who studied at private colleges) tend to have less initiative and expect to be spoon fed all the time. it could be a result of our education system and the lecturers adapt to this system. i made this observation as an employer as well as a former lecturer in a local private college.

where i studied a-levels, degree and post grad in the UK, our education focused a lot on research skills, logical thinking and problem solving. in malaysia, students copy notes and study past year questions to pass exams.

finally, i noticed a lot of malaysian students overseas, especially the malays tend to gang up together and form a kampung.... i think if you do this, you might as well just save your money and study in Malaysia.

isarahim
13-12-2005, 07:01 AM
One must consider other things like the prestige of the degree-granting institution (good ones like Uni of London, Nottingham and Monash can be done entirely here, not to mention accountancy bodies like ACCA, CIMA, ICAEW, MICPA)

I disagree. A very significant part of the value you gain by studying in a UK or Aussie Uni is the social network and extra-curricular activities. This cannot be recreated by going exclusively to the local campuses of those Unis.

The open mind and personal drive which other posters here are talking about is only in part created within the curriculum. The other important part is in the extra-curriculum.

To maximise this value, students should be encouraged to socialise more and build their personal networks with foreign students. Being active in sports and various associations is important. Not being drawn into Malaysian-only communities overseas is also important.

tupai
13-12-2005, 08:47 AM
...finally, i noticed a lot of malaysian students overseas, especially the malays tend to gang up together and form a kampung.... i think if you do this, you might as well just save your money and study in Malaysia.

20years ago, most if not all Msian non-bumi avoided the m'sian hall for exactly the reason stated above. 20yrs on, it looks like its still samo samo...
:(

Overseas ed provides more than just academic needs (hopefully to secure a great job) but it does open up one's eyes to different culture, taste, flavour and everything nice & not so nice. This type of experience is invaluable only if one chooses not to be a katak under a coconut shell....come to think of it, I never did have an arab friend...i wonder why???

Yang Amat Berkauman lato tupai

JackRyan1975
13-12-2005, 09:18 AM
I disagree. A very significant part of the value you gain by studying in a UK or Aussie Uni is the social network and extra-curricular activities. This cannot be recreated by going exclusively to the local campuses of those Unis.

I agree to disagree. As you rightly pointed out below, it is worthwhile to study overseas provided one keeps an open mind and reach out to other communities. However, that does not mean a graduate who never set foot on a foreign campus is necessarily inferior in quality.

On a related matter, I would never admire a student who squeezed his/her parents dry just to be able to study overseas at a mediocre institution.

trex92
13-12-2005, 09:37 AM
hmmm... there are many programmes that offer something like 2+1 where the student only spends 1 year overseas. If the programme is a UK programme then it is actually less than 1 year, more like 9 months. So how big a difference can this 1 year (or 9 months in UK cases) be? I myself did a 3+0 programme whereby I completed my UK degree fully in Malaysia. I don't see much of a difference between me and my frens who came back from overseas. ;) well, it all boils down to the person in the first place...

vsat
13-12-2005, 09:57 AM
I'm actually a local education product. Studied all my life here from UPSR till Certificate till Diploma and finally my degree. And I have to say I turned out to be one fine lad.
I'm a manager now. Was in charge of a huge project last year and pulled it off with success. We're now the largest in South East Asia because of the project which I single handedly managed. And it wasn't a simple project mind you. Got a company car to travel around with petrol paid for. Handling
another project now and things are going smooth.
Travelled to other countries already outside South East Asia.
I have purchased an apartment with my own money. But of course, as a responsible citizen, I pay my student loans every month. And I know for a fact that most of my fellow local university friends are doing quite well too. Travelling to London for work, etc.

All I'm saying is, it's not the overseas education, it's your own determination and hard work to succeed in life and work.
I have friend's whose parents sent them off to UK but now ..jobless and keeps thinking that she is possessed with spirits. What a waste of education in UK! One sent to US and now back here but always talking about big big project but never want to start small.

I remember my father's face when he saw the Yuran Pembayaran Semester 1 for my Polytechnic. It was only RM200.00. His friend's son in private college was RM6000.00 for one semester.
Conclusion is, how you shape your kids up to be a responsible and civilized useful human being when he's all grown. And overseas education is not the answer

yvonnefoong
13-12-2005, 01:27 PM
Hello there! I agree with vsat and trex. The future depends on the person's character and not solely on the country of education. Both kinds of result exist among both local and foreign graduates.

Another factor is the subject that is being studied.

I also have to agree that overseas education encourages independence and intellectuality. Students get to learn beyond classrooms and form their own analysis on every aspect of education. However, a student who is lazy and unmotivated would not benefit from this system either.

Perhaps individualistic characters are to be considered in making this decision.

ie: If I send my son abroad, is he capable and willing to take advantage of the unique system there? Or is he more suited here?

sirgalahad2010
13-12-2005, 01:33 PM
The Spore papers reported recently that there are around 8,000 Msian students studying in Spore at all levels - primary, secondary, polytechnics, universities.

Wonder if the Msian authorities are keeping track of them and persuading them to return to Msia after completing their studies in Spore? Or do they even bother? Seems to me that organisational efficiency is not a hallmark of the Msian education authorities!

Jokee
13-12-2005, 03:43 PM
I'm actually a local education product. Studied all my life here from UPSR till Certificate till Diploma and finally my degree. And I have to say I turned out to be one fine lad.
I'm a manager now. Was in charge of a huge project last year and pulled it off with success. We're now the largest in South East Asia because of the project which I single handedly managed. And it wasn't a simple project mind you. Got a company car to travel around with petrol paid for. Handling
another project now and things are going smooth.

Hmm. very proud of your success. You're handling school net? There is no large project being managed by single person. Teamwork. I have many successful project implementations as well in large companies but I still feel, if given a management position, I may have a bit of problem. Wanna take up my challenge? successful people will succeed in any company, just like those contractual CEO's. Try working in another multinational company, there, you'll probably evaluate your success better.
I believe there is a difference in experiencing overseas and local education especially on teamwork and assignments. I would also say the culture there may have an indirect impact on you. PArents are important as well. Many friends I had studying overseas was spoilt and did not achieve much in life.

rabbiteeth84
13-12-2005, 04:50 PM
"it's not the overseas education, it's your own determination and hard work to succeed in life and work.
I have friend's whose parents sent them off to UK but now ..jobless and keeps thinking that she is possessed with spirits. What a waste of education in UK! One sent to US and now back here but always talking about big big project but never want to start small."

quote:originally posted by bsat budiman

in the beginning of tread, i am asking if local education really the best. this is the place where vex me the most. of course, one voyage depends on how you rock the boat, not how good you boat is made of, but it is just a raft, seriously how far can you go. but if you add more reinforcement along the way, the boat will get to its destinaton.

same way goes for education. u study local until one level, is necessary for you to go outside of your current place in order to reinforce you yourself. i totally disagree with the local education, it is complete spoon fed. the teachers love to all teach you WHAT THEY THINK , instead of WHAT YOU THINK.

of couse it all boils down to your inner self, but trust me your upbringing, your parents, your education system can have a serious part on your inner self.

hezron
13-12-2005, 04:52 PM
No matter you are educated in Local or Oversea...
The one thing that always play importance role is your attitude...

People with good attitude can success...
Is the family education that implant this nutrient into our blood stream,
and growing it by being our daily example in our young age…

JackRyan1975
13-12-2005, 05:20 PM
same way goes for education. u study local until one level, is necessary for you to go outside of your current place in order to reinforce you yourself. i totally disagree with the local education, it is complete spoon fed. the teachers love to all teach you WHAT THEY THINK , instead of WHAT YOU THINK.

Of course teachers teach only what they know. How else could they read your mind and tell you what they think about your thoughts if not through the examination process? You would have a valid point if you say that local lecturers are not awarding marks for dissent, are they? And by the way, what's your definition of local education? I've had "foreign" examiners entirely throughout my "local" education, so am I locally educated or foreign educated in your opinion? :D

isarahim
13-12-2005, 06:00 PM
However, that does not mean a graduate who never set foot on a foreign campus is necessarily inferior in quality.

Absolutely. I totally with you on this.

Likewise, a graduate who's never ever set foot on anything else than an anglosaxon campus is not necessarily superior in quality.

(....in fact I do come across locals who like to brag about their foreign education, but makes we wonder whether they made the whole thing up....)

rabbiteeth84
13-12-2005, 10:24 PM
Of course teachers teach only what they know. How else could they read your mind and tell you what they think about your thoughts if not through the examination process?

quote: jackryan 1957


i always think that a teacher is supposed to encourage you to think, not teaching you what they think. you should figure out the thing you yourself and in the ,mean time being help by a open-minded teacher, not being restricted by any limit.

i would love to have a education system that's open-minded, mind-challenging but not fully academic based. and from this i think overseas fiited this slot better than local. no offence to anyonr who study fully locally.

wAISEKMAo
13-12-2005, 10:39 PM
i noticed there is a huge difference between local and overseas graduates. local graduates (including those who studied at private colleges) tend to have less initiative and expect to be spoon fed all the time. it could be a result of our education system and the lecturers adapt to this system. i made this observation as an employer as well as a former lecturer in a local private college.


I think the iniative are because while you are in overseas, you are on your own. So you have to do it. Essentially, it becomes a norm. The locally studied...well, you have your mom's house handing all the food and etc. I guess when you are on your own, you grow up faster and more mature.

[/QUOTE]
where i studied a-levels, degree and post grad in the UK, our education focused a lot on research skills, logical thinking and problem solving. in malaysia, students copy notes and study past year questions to pass exams.
[/QUOTE]
Same in US.

[/QUOTE]
finally, i noticed a lot of malaysian students overseas, especially the malays tend to gang up together and form a kampung.... i think if you do this, you might as well just save your money and study in Malaysia.[/QUOTE]
You know what? It's same in the US. There is once I have a same class with this malay and when I am trying to be friendly..it's as if we are not from Malaysia at all.

wAISEKMAo
13-12-2005, 10:55 PM
I'm actually a local education product. Studied all my life here from UPSR till Certificate till Diploma and finally my degree. And I have to say I turned out to be one fine lad.
I'm a manager now. Was in charge of a huge project last year and pulled it off with success. We're now the largest in South East Asia because of the project which I single handedly managed. And it wasn't a simple project mind you. Got a company car to travel around with petrol paid for. Handling
another project now and things are going smooth.
Travelled to other countries already outside South East Asia.
I have purchased an apartment with my own money. But of course, as a responsible citizen, I pay my student loans every month. And I know for a fact that most of my fellow local university friends are doing quite well too. Travelling to London for work, etc.

All I'm saying is, it's not the overseas education, it's your own determination and hard work to succeed in life and work.
I have friend's whose parents sent them off to UK but now ..jobless and keeps thinking that she is possessed with spirits. What a waste of education in UK! One sent to US and now back here but always talking about big big project but never want to start small.

I remember my father's face when he saw the Yuran Pembayaran Semester 1 for my Polytechnic. It was only RM200.00. His friend's son in private college was RM6000.00 for one semester.
Conclusion is, how you shape your kids up to be a responsible and civilized useful human being when he's all grown. And overseas education is not the answer

Well Vast, you must be very proud! Good for you.

You know what. An Achievement is very subjective. Even if you go to the best school in UK, you might probably working your ass off in Citibank.

What I am trying to say the differences between local education and overseas education are :-
1. There are things call Endownment. In US, some of the university depends on 1. tuition fees 2. goverment fund 3. Endowment to pay for the best/better professor. Harvard professor gets about USD 160k per yr. As there are highly able professor, you get to learn from these guys. Especially in Technology, You are able to learn the latest technology, issues, problems and etc. I get to learn latest technology, issues in state department of US and how they create policy among others while I was in the US. It's not just books. Some of these professor create technologies and setup company to market it.

2. You get to learn to stay on your own and got to do it even it you don't want to. I mean you have to cook your own meal, wash your own clothes, plates, buy your own groceries, I mean you are on your own, if you have problems big or small you got to deal with it yourself.

3. Most of the class have subjects that involve critical problem solving. You do not attend classes, learn from the books(theories) but hands on solving the problems so you can know the solution.

4. While in overseas you get to see other culture, social structure, how things get done and etc. It really change your outlook on how you see things in your life and in your work.

There are countless differences but these are some of the things.

Again, achievement in life after school (local or overseas) are subjective.

JackRyan1975
14-12-2005, 12:27 PM
Likewise, a graduate who's never ever set foot on anything else than an anglosaxon campus is not necessarily superior in quality.

I had heard people dropping out of UK and local universities for failure to cope with the syllabus, but never heard of any in the US. Furthermore there is likely to be a time bar for one to complete a degree, unlike the US which is very liberal.

Apparently weaker students in the US can choose any unrelated curriculum (e.g. pet care, hamburger making, grooming courses etc) just to make up the credits in order to graduate. To me, that devalues a US degree unless it is one from the more reputable ones and with good grades to boot.

On the other extreme, I do have respect for graduates from the US Ivy league universities, who, in the first place, have impeccable records in order to be admitted as a student.

vsat
14-12-2005, 02:47 PM
Why aren't parents looking at our local polytechnics instead of private colleges? Polytechnics ensure you have practical and theoritical skills.
These days, kids want to study in private colleges instead of a Polytechnic in Merlimau or Jitra or Pangkal Kalong. Why? Because they're surrounded by cool and happening people and in a happening city like KL. Once in cities, there you go, influences like discos, clubs, alcohol, smoking, pre marital sex, drugs, must own a car, handphones, nice clothes,etc. All these at the age of 18 or 19. Don;t say it won't happen to my kids. It will happen to your kids once they're in that environment.
Do we really want that for our kids? For parents whose kids have just finished SPM, do consider our local Polytechnics instead of the 3+0 or 2+1 nonsensical and expensive programmes. Go to UK to study but cannot even pronounce Schwarzenegger.

wAISEKMAo
14-12-2005, 03:09 PM
I had heard people dropping out of UK and local universities for failure to cope with the syllabus, but never heard of any in the US. Furthermore there is likely to be a time bar for one to complete a degree, unlike the US which is very liberal.

Apparently weaker students in the US can choose any unrelated curriculum (e.g. pet care, hamburger making, grooming courses etc) just to make up the credits in order to graduate. To me, that devalues a US degree unless it is one from the more reputable ones and with good grades to boot.

On the other extreme, I do have respect for graduates from the US Ivy league universities, who, in the first place, have impeccable records in order to be admitted as a student.

Jack,

One of the reasons I choose to go to US many many moons ago are the difference in the education systems. In UK, you got to study for the whole year and take final at the end of the year. Failure which you will repeat n repeat until you pass. In US, you do everything within 15 weeks (normally finals 40/50%, mid term 25%, projects 10-15%, assignments and attendance ..etc). So what happens are you get to study the whole subject in 15 weeks and you can discard the book into your toilet.

But as I understand (maybe I am wrong), the whole year syllabus in UK is divided into 2-3 subjects in US. It means it's easier to study in US.

And Jack, you are right that :-
[/QUOTE]
Apparently weaker students in the US can choose any unrelated curriculum (e.g. pet care, hamburger making, grooming courses etc
[/QUOTE]
but it's only for 1st year and 2nd year where you can take something outside of your coursework. If you are in engineering, you probably can take language class, art appreciation or etc as an electives.
And I have never heard students in US ever taken Pet Care, hamburger making(well, unless you go to Macdonald University) or even grooming.
I hope these informations should make things clear for you.

joker2107
14-12-2005, 09:36 PM
isarahim n vsat r right in their own ways. their issues r miles apart. but vsat, may i ask u 2 honestly evaluate d quality of yr fellow students n do u really think all their results were deserved? i've been thru a course of study 4 a foreign degree in a local inst. i got a distinction, n like vsat, i know how i got it. but then again, i feel that paper is so worthless cos a huge chunk of my course mates could hardly compose a decent paragraph in english. n i could hardly understand half d projects done by half d class. 2 my knowlege nobody ever failed thru d yrs - cos of economics - u get students cos students wanna get a paper, and wit competition, u cant fail anybody cos failure is bad bad bad ad and bad 4 business.

uchangeng
15-12-2005, 02:10 PM
i went for an overseas education because I do NOT have a bin behind my name and not entitled to a free local tertiary education back in the 70s.. Nevermind I got a grade 1 in my MCE and did well in my HSC...

this is a land where we face acute shortage of medical professionals on one hand and on the other hand, our political systems reject outright qualified non-bumi students from doing their medical degrees in local unis...

paradoxical and cynical, isn't it?

kelvinwkw
15-12-2005, 03:06 PM
To me...
Its depend on one itself whether he/she wanna talk initiative to learn rather than picking up where to study...

But the environment is also a factor that might affect one's will too..

For this, my vote wont go for local academic institute.... :D