PDA

View Full Version : the chinese worm.



uchangeng
06-12-2005, 12:47 PM
An OZ friend of mine recently was diagnosed to have this horrible chinese worm infection that he almost died of.

The worm is a waterborn parasite, it's eggs incubate and hatche in your intestines. Adult worms grow and move up your gut into your stomach, most worm will die, but not this one, and eat it's way up to your liver and even the heart tissue. Blood check can be done to detect the worm by means of tracing it's feaces in the blood stream.

Anyone knows or experience this? Is there any vacine against this horrible worm? Combanrine or Zental work? Anything at all, as I travel to china often and I hate worm.

USJ27Resident
06-12-2005, 01:56 PM
Sounds like a type of tapeworm infestation...

Read somewhere that pork meat tend to cause this affliction. Also read that tapeworm tends to and can survive high temperatures.... so cooking cannot kill it. Best to avoid this meat if not sure that it has been cooked properly.

Combatrine or Zentel should work but if unsure, seek medical treatment and advice la.

uchangeng
06-12-2005, 02:19 PM
Will check out Zental and Combatrine. If they work, I will b pretty safe as I do take Zental at least twice a year as I really, really hate worms, that squirmy little havocs that cost me my biology paper in my A-level back in the 70s. I gave up on the subject because I had to disect a full grown earth worm, bare hands!

GreyShadow
06-12-2005, 02:59 PM
Will check out Zental and Combatrine. If they work, I will b pretty safe as I do take Zental at least twice a year as I really, really hate worms, that squirmy little havocs that cost me my biology paper in my A-level back in the 70s. I gave up on the subject because I had to disect a full grown earth worm, bare hands!
Arr~~ Bio class, one of my fav class beside chemistry
disected worms, grasshopper, cockroach, bull's eye, and lab rat :p

KH EE
06-12-2005, 03:13 PM
I gave up on the subject because I had to disect a full grown earth worm, bare hands!

had to pull one long worm out of my anus many hundred moons ago! that's the price to pay going barefoot everywhere!!! :eek:

kress
06-12-2005, 03:32 PM
the little flyer with zental does indicate it works with tape worms but you have to take two tablets spaced over a certain amount of time (i kind of forgot, check flyer to be sure.).

kwchang
06-12-2005, 04:08 PM
The information regarding the "chinese worm" is not very helpful but I will elaborate on it a little later after I clarify a few comments made by other members -

USJ27Resident mentioned about a tapeworm being unable to be killed by cooking. There is only one worm that I know of which is the Ascaris species whose egg is very resistant to being killed by heat. This is not a tapeworm but a roundworm. KH EE mentioned a long worm from his anus - this is the Ascaris species. HOWEVER, you cannot get it by going barefoot. Ascaris infects a human being by accidental consumption of the Ascaris eggs from food contaminated by faeces.

On the danger of going barefoot, you get infected by hookworms. These are blood suckers and very common in children since they run about barefoot in the playgrounds.

Back to the "chinese" worm, the one which comes to mind is not really a "worm" at all but a "fluke". A fluke is a flatworm. This parasite infects water snails and from the water, the parasite will infect the feshwater fish. The parasite then embeds itself in the fish muscle. If you ate raw fish, the parasite then migrates from your gut to your liver. Hence it is also known as the Chinese Liver Fluke. I know that Combantrin or Zentel are good for getting rid of worms in the gut such as roundworms, pinworms, hookworms and maybe even tapeworms. However, once the fluke gets to your liver, I don't think those deworming drugs will work.

BTW, anyone interested to know more about worms and parasites? I could give you more "scary" information if you like. My honours degree is in Zoology with emphasis on parasites (Parasitology) and insects (Entomology).

kwchang
06-12-2005, 04:59 PM
Did a check on Albendazole -

albendazole has activity against Ascaris lumbricoides (roundworm), Ancylostoma duodenale and Necator americanus (hookworms), Enterobius vermicularis (pinworm), Hymenolepis nana and Taenia sp (tapeworms), Opisthorchis sinensis and Opisthorchis viverrini (liver flukes), Strongyloides stercoralis and Trichuris trichiura (whipworm); activity has also been shown against the liver fluke Clonorchis sinensis, Giardia lamblia, Cysticercus cellulosae, Echinococcus granulosus, Echinococcus multilocularis, and Toxocara sp.

Albendazole is originally a deworming medicine for livestock but has been modified for humans and is marketted as Zentel.

Looks like it has an effect on liver flukes - but I will do a check on the details later.

The best way to avoid liver flukes is NOT to eat raw fresh water fish. So you see, in Malaysia where we have the loh sang for Chinese New Year, most people avoid raw meat from the fresh water fish. They are substituted by salmon (which are brackish water or salt water fish) or jelly fish.

Jokee
06-12-2005, 05:04 PM
hmm very impressive qualification you have there.

adriene
06-12-2005, 05:07 PM
omg! :eek: all these worm stories. they could infect any of us. think it's time i dewormed myself just to be on the safe side. question, regarding the deworming pills like zentel... do you actually excrete out the worms (if any) when you poo?

kwchang, zoology huh? cool! i like insects and mammals in general.

kwchang
06-12-2005, 05:18 PM
Uhhhh.... actually, being a parasitologist not so laku in the career line....can't make millions and retire early like some of you. Am now not indulging in that line anymore. But all these worms and insects are so beautiful under the microscope. And when you learn of how they adapt to their environment, it can be very interesting.

tupai
06-12-2005, 05:19 PM
Indian worms :confused:

A few yrs back, one of my managers came back from a 5weeks hol in india. Being from a rich backgrd, the whole family travelled first class, stayed first class, ate only at 5-star hotel, drank bottled h2o and generally took all manners of precautions.

After a jolly great time visiting ancestral land, they came home. 1 week later, in early Am, while sitting on his throne reading the latest front page, my mgr felt wriggly things coming out from down there :eek: ...From what he described, it was horrible. Dozens came out and they were white and as long & thick as chopsticks! :eek: :eek: Of course, he freaked out and scrambled half naked to the nearest hosipital.

he was warded, had his stomach kinda flushed and checked out a few days later. But man, what a story... :eek: They also suspected contanminated meat. :eek:

Steak anyone?

yang Akan Bersayor lato tupai

kwchang
06-12-2005, 05:31 PM
Tupai, your friend probably had the harmless ascaris worm - remember, their eggs are heat resistant hence cooking can't kill them. They probably had food contaminated with the worm eggs.

For your information, in the poor countries, the farmers cannot afford to use chemical fertilisers and so they water the vegetables with sewerage water. Humans and pigs infected with ascaris will release eggs in their faeces and when these contaminated water is used as a fertiliser, the eggs of the worm contaminates the vegetables. So, when you eat the fresh green salads (which are organically grown), you stand a high chance of consuming the ascaris eggs.

Actually this is quite rare in Malaysia because we are so advanced and the farmers are not actually "organic" hence less risk from roundworms.

Not to worry, just pop some Zentel after your trips to all the SE Asian countries and you will be OK.

By the way, ascaris only terrifies you due to its size and quantity but quite harmeless actually if they are in small numbers. Some people had ruptured appendix due to small ascarid worms getting lost and cramming in the appendix. In the gut, ascaris will stay quietly absorbing the food you consumed.

tupai
06-12-2005, 05:37 PM
... In the gut, ascaris will stay quietly absorbing the food you consumed.

:eek: its that why I am always so hungry? I am feeding lotsa worms???

SFX: AHHhhhhhhAHHHhhhhh!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Visual: Me running like a headless chicken, zig-zagging and pulling my hair with one hand and pulling worms with the other hand :eek: :eek: :eek:

yang amat bercacing lato tupai

adriene
06-12-2005, 07:41 PM
In the gut, ascaris will stay quietly absorbing the food you consumed.

so matter of fact... lala la la la :p

kevin23
06-12-2005, 07:46 PM
BTW, anyone interested to know more about worms and parasites? I could give you more "scary" information if you like. My honours degree is in Zoology with emphasis on parasites (Parasitology) and insects (Entomology).


juz curious,where u got ur degree from? which uni?

GreenBug
06-12-2005, 10:23 PM
Hey Mr. Chang Sir, this Zentel thingy, is it prescription drug or OTC? :) After reading the stuff here and the fact that I travel to so many villages in Sarawak and Sabah and join the folks in their fresh-water fish meals, I think better play safe lahhhh.... moreover I also travel to some of the SE Asian countries quite a fair bit lah, aiyoh, why do some someone have to start writing about Chinese worms lah, Indian worms lah, I thought this was about politicians but noooo..... they're real worms, oh boy! :eek:

kwchang
07-12-2005, 12:31 AM
I thought Zentel is not a prescription drug in Malaysia - I will need to check with a doctor and tell you guys later. Checked google and found this - http://www.drugs.com/cons/Zentel.html - where it says it is a presription drug in the US. You may also read the PDF document from Australia - http://www.gsk.com.au/gskinternet/publishing.nsf/Content/Zentel
In Glaxo's website, http://www.gsk.com.my/gsk_consumer_zentel.asp?cat=08, Zentel is indicated as self-medication and over-the-counter hence non-prescription. I guess the Americans are overly cautious.

HeeHeeHee... everyone's scared of worms, and I am no exception. Ascaris is pretty scary when you find it coming out of you know where! Actually the other worms are more scary but you either can't see them or don't even know you have them.

My friend who had been to Vietnam told me about how they fertilise the vegetables in Vietnam. So it is safe to assume that less developed countries practise the same thing. Not just in SE Asia (Singapore excluded) but also in India and China.

As for liver flukes, you may like to read it at http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~schisto/OtherFlukes/Opisthorchis.egg.html but it carries a lot of scientific jargon. It says that the liver flukes that infect the bile duct in humans are generally harmless in small numbers and cause no real problems. You will have symptoms if the infection is high.

Ah by the way, it was initially mentioned that the diagnosis of the existence of the liver fluke is from the worm faeces found in the blood - that is distorted. Actually we check the stool samples of the patient. That is we examine your faeces and look for the worm eggs. If you have worms or flukes, these parasites produce eggs and are excreted in your gut. Hence detection is by this simple method. Unfortunately I don't work in a lab anymore - otherwise I can check your stool samples. ;)

balitan
07-12-2005, 07:40 AM
Mr Chang

very impressed with what you have shared with us

thanks

hezron
07-12-2005, 08:20 AM
so many scary information...
but really useful...

i think i also get some Zental to purge out abit...
you will never know what you have inside... :)

DatinLawa
07-12-2005, 09:03 AM
wow... kwchang, on one hand, i am impressed... on the other hand, i am totally disgusted after having googled some images of those worms!! straight to the point, i dunno what "freaking" (loan from orchi's favourite word) worms are embedded in our body and have no idea how to detect them at first instance. so... is there anything that we can take to kill ALL of them (would zentel do the work?) should there be any in our body?? better still if you have any prevention tips, i mean absolute prevention... gosh, i can feel the worms under my scalp... :eek: :eek: :eek:

in
07-12-2005, 09:20 AM
If I take Zentel or Combantrin, will the worms come out whole when you poo or will it be 'dissolved' so you can't see it.
I can still remember when I was a kid, and the shock of seeing worms dangling out of you know where!

GreyShadow
07-12-2005, 10:43 AM
Wow~~ all these scary stories of worms crawling out from your "you know where"... :p
Still remember some of the scary theory studied in Bio class... was it form5 or form6 can't remember :p
There's this type of tiny worm, if you swallowed the eggs, it will hatch in your intestine, then grow & multiply in there. Then they will slowly drill through the intestine making their way up. Some of them will end-up in your lung, and they will follow the air way, crawl all the way up to your throat, then you'll feel a tingling itchy sensation in your throat. So naturally you'll swallow to ease the itch, thus making the worms to go down the throat, and will start climbing up again. Or it will make you cough, then you might sees tiny worms flying out from your mouth :p
That's what I can remember after so many years lar... many kwchang can verify since he's qualified? :p

jand
07-12-2005, 11:56 AM
recall watching in Discovery channel, we should not kill all the worms.. our body is an ecosystem.. balance is important.. if it's utterly devoid of these worms, we get allergic easily.

so boys and girls, don't kill all the worms. ;)

uchangeng
07-12-2005, 12:18 PM
I had worm coming out of my bottom when I was a kid. Many times, when it happened, I screamed for help and mum came to my rescue with a large tong to pull out the reluctant worms(reluctant to leave my ass!).

On one occasion, when I was like 14, my brother had to pull out a long worm from my anus.

My cousin, I witnessed in him worm coming off from his mouth.

My neighbor kid, a Malay boy, I saw worm came off his infection pierced skin.

kwchang, I am mighty glad for all the info. you provide here. Can you shed somelight on the above? especially on the worm that came off the skin. The opening where the worm actually came off, it was looking like an open wound, the Malay villgers call it "bisuai".

KH EE
07-12-2005, 03:19 PM
KH EE mentioned a long worm from his anus - this is the Ascaris species. HOWEVER, you cannot get it by going barefoot. Ascaris infects a human being by accidental consumption of the Ascaris eggs from food contaminated by faeces.

this gives me a whole new meaning of "EAT SH!T"!!! :eek:

tupai
07-12-2005, 05:47 PM
Zentel can be bought OTC. There are 2 types:
1. Tablets (rm4-5 per 2-pill dosage)
2. Liquid (rm7-9 per 10ml dosage)

Just make sure that EVERYone takes it..including the maid every 6moths.

begone! wormy wormy, yuk!

yang akan buang cacing lato tupai

orchipalar
07-12-2005, 05:57 PM
Zentel can be bought OTC. There are 2 types:
1. Tablets (rm4-5 per 2-pill dosage)
2. Liquid (rm7-9 per 10ml dosage)

Just make sure that EVERYone takes it..including the maid every 6moths.

begone! wormy wormy, yuk!

yang akan buang cacing lato tupaiErr...a true connoisseur in petai eating...might dispute the use of any modern medicines to rid off them itching...slimy n blood thirsty worms...ahem...eating petai works everytime... :D

uchangeng
07-12-2005, 06:51 PM
petai? sure? I heard that from my Malay pak cik yeras back but was not convinced at that time. Any sciencetific proof?

I have a lot of problem with Petai, all my Mat Saleh clients will stay away from me la... now, job or worm or petai? life is tough!

orchipalar
07-12-2005, 07:38 PM
petai? sure? I heard that from my Malay pak cik yeras back but was not convinced at that time. Any sciencetific proof?

I have a lot of problem with Petai, all my Mat Saleh clients will stay away from me la... now, job or worm or petai? life is tough!Err...dear UChangEng:)...kampong folks n those who live off the jungle...would swear that it works...n for Orchi...it has worked for decades...:)

There are more to eating the 'smelly' n pungent petai...ya have to eat it raw for it to have the best effects...or if ya prefer ya could eat raw like ulam with hot sambal belachan...hmmm...yummy!

But please don't take Orchi's words for it...please read about it here... (http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petai) n HERE... (http://www.directhere.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=hmn_article&ContentID=6431&PageID=7&bdGroupID=8)

Err...you would soon come to realise...why modern science is so keen to learn more about this fruit from the tropical jungle...which is belived to have best remedial values...for diabetes...strokes...high blood pressure...bowel disorder...etc etc

More here... (http://www.medic.usm.my/~rnd/Research%20Clusters/herbal/herbal%20medicine%20history2.html) n here... (http://www.medic.usm.my/~rnd/Swedenweb/diabetes.htm) n here... (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:BYzfmEPUxTAJ:www.tradewindsfruit.co m/sataw.htm+parkia&hl=en&client=firefox-a)
:)

tupai
07-12-2005, 07:43 PM
...
There are more to eating the 'smelly' n pungent petai...ya have to eat it raw for it to have the best effects...or if ya prefer ya could eat raw like ulam with hot sambal belachan...hmmm...yummy!
:)

Orchi, what about the small wriggly worms inside the petai itself? they edible? I discovered these wigglies when i split the petai into halves...i.e. b4 that i chewed them whole.. yuk! :eek:

KWC, what happened when petai or 'outside' worms meet 'inside' worms? :p


yang amat bercacing lato tupai

kwchang
07-12-2005, 11:54 PM
:eek: its that why I am always so hungry? I am feeding lotsa worms???
Tupai, having worms in your gut quietly absorbing the food don't make you hungry. Hungriness is a sensation of the lack of bulk in the stomach. Intestinal worms stay in the intestines, not the stomach. The effect of a large population of worms in the gut would be lack of nutrition since the tapeworms and roundworms absorb your food before your gut can absorb it. If you had a lot of hookworms, you can become anaemic because hookworms suck your blood.


will the worms come out whole when you poo or will it be 'dissolved' so you can't see it
Well, most of the worms are so small that you won't see them. However, the long white roundworms (Ascaris lumbricoides) may come out of your anus. They don't "dissolve" but they may die in your gut, stay there and disintegrate due to bacterial action.


... it will make you cough, then you might sees tiny worms flying out from your mouth
I will need to check out about this worm as I certainly can't remember all the parasites. It sounds familiar but certainly, I don't think you can cough out the worms till it flies thru the air.


...we should not kill all the worms.. our body is an ecosystem.. balance is important.. if it's utterly devoid of these worms, we get allergic easily
Not true. The parasites are made to survive in the host animal but certainly they do not give any benefits to the host. You do not develop allergies if the worms are gone. The reverse is true - some of these parasites can give you problems like itchiness, especially those which are not meant to live within humans. I will tell you more about that in future.


Can you shed somelight .... on the worm that came off the skin
This parasite is not common in Malaysia. it is found in Africa. The condition is known as visceral larval migrans and is caused by the Guinea worm (Dracunculus medinensis). There is a long story to tell about this worm if you are interested.

And finally, as verified by Tupai, Zentel is a non-prescription drug. Please read the information in the packet before consuming. It is not suitable for children less than 2-years' old. Similarly, pregnant women and milking mothers should avoid this because the drug can be passed to the foetus and the baby via the mother's milk. Albendazole is actually toxic (how do you think it kills the owrms?) hence the need to keep it away from young children. I think they have children doses as well.

GreenBug
08-12-2005, 12:05 AM
Mr. Chang, I salute you for your knowledge of worms and sharing it with us until a layman like me also can understand and go buy Zentel lah.... bought the tablet ones at a Pharmacy in Gadong (outside Bandar Seri Begawan) for BND3.00 (about RM6.60)! Just walloped one a while ago, now dare not go to the toilet because afraid to see worms coming out of you know where.... :eek:

But still, thanks and well done!

kwchang
08-12-2005, 12:55 AM
Parasitic worms undergo multiple stages in its development. The early stages after hatching from the egg is known as the larval stage (larvae = plural form).


There's this type of tiny worm, if you swallowed the eggs, it will hatch in your intestine, then grow & multiply in there. Then they will slowly drill through the intestine making their way up. Some of them will end-up in your lung, and they will follow the air way, crawl all the way up to your throat,...
GreyShadow, you remember the life cycle better than me. What you described is actually the life cycle of the common roundworm or Ascaris. The eggs that hatch in the intestines produce young worms (larvae) that migrate to the lungs. While in the lungs they can cause some irritation. About 10 days later these larvae will move to the throat where they are swallowed. Hence they end up in the intestines where they develop into adult worms.

Even the hookworms migrate to the lungs like the roundworms.

patrick
08-12-2005, 01:08 AM
Mmmmm...Chang now the secret is out! Your name KW Chang stands for .... KING WORM Chang !!! ;-)

And why your banana plantation is blooming sooo well!!! Ha ha!!!

orchipalar
08-12-2005, 07:47 AM
Err...dear Chang:)...so far in this thread...topic is touch on intestinal worms or worms which are found within the human anatomy or digestive system...ahem...would it be appropriate to say that...err...quite commonly ringworms are found on human skin as well...are these worms or something else...fungus??

Secondly...are these ringworms contageous...which could be passed on from human to human contact or between pets n humans as well...??

Thirdly...once infected...what would be best to get rid off it....permanently?

BTW...Orchi feels the title to this thread is no longer appropriate...n perhaps ya might wanna consider to change it accordingly...TQ:)

uchangeng
08-12-2005, 02:52 PM
kwchang, please tell the long story of the dracula worm((Dracunculus medinensis).

If this worm is uncommon in Malaysia but it is in the African continent, I suspect our old soldiers who served in the Congo under the UN back in the 60s could have swollowed a few eggs there and brought it back to Malaysia in their belly. I had one neighbor who was in the army (killed in action by the commies in he 70s) and I wonder he had been to the Congo as this neighbor's kid in question actually lived near this old soldier home. How strange? We lived by the sea sides and inthe 60s it was normal for the villegers to have their bogs at the beach at night, under the cover of darkness. If the feaces of the infected soldier was stepped on by young kids who ran around the beach a lot, bare foot, chances of infection were high. I stepped on somebody's feaces a few times! Boy am I infected?

billy
08-12-2005, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE=uchangeng]An OZ friend of mine recently was diagnosed to have this horrible chinese worm infection that he almost died of.

The worm is a waterborn parasite, it's eggs incubate and hatche in your intestines. Adult worms grow and move up your gut into your stomach, most worm will die, but not this one, and eat it's way up to your liver and even the heart tissue. Blood check can be done to detect the worm by means of tracing it's feaces in the blood stream. [QUOTE]


Sound like another urban legend to me.

kwchang
09-12-2005, 12:07 AM
Sound like another urban legend to me.
Not an urban legend Billy,
I have already explained about the liver fluke (flatworm) in post #7 in page 1. The problem with uchangeng's description is that he got the facts wrong, hence it sounded ridiculous.

GreyShadow
09-12-2005, 10:19 AM
Parasitic worms undergo multiple stages in its development. The early stages after hatching from the egg is known as the larval stage (larvae = plural form).


GreyShadow, you remember the life cycle better than me. What you described is actually the life cycle of the common roundworm or Ascaris. The eggs that hatch in the intestines produce young worms (larvae) that migrate to the lungs. While in the lungs they can cause some irritation. About 10 days later these larvae will move to the throat where they are swallowed. Hence they end up in the intestines where they develop into adult worms.

Even the hookworms migrate to the lungs like the roundworms.
Eeekk~!! Having irritation in the lung before... better pop some Zentel first :p
Btw, since Zentel works in your guts only right?? So it won't kill those larvaes which are still in your liver or lungs lor??
Which means I need to take multiple prescription to totally get rid of it?

KelvC
09-12-2005, 01:15 PM
Dear Chang, thank you for your timely reminder to rid ourselves of these worms which we normally take it for granted. Kudos!

Ahem! One question: If the worm has crawled up the throat unknowingly by us, how to get rid of it? Drink liquid Zentel or ingest Probiotic powder form (pill form will only be dissolve in the gut)?

kwchang
09-12-2005, 02:14 PM
Sorry folks, I am not a doctor hence i can't answer questions on medication. You should consult your practitioner on that. By the way, I would not get so worried about the parasites. A few worms aren't going to cause much harm.

We are also very fortunate that -
- we do not have the more dangerous varieties like those found in Africa for example.
- our food are usually well cooked and so we have less incidence of parasitism like that found in other countries where they have a culture of consuming raw animal products.
-we have comparatively good health services that we enjoy in Malaysia. For example, we have eradicated Malaria in the 50's and TB (probably in the 70's) while our neighbour, Indonesia, still have such cases to this day. Unfortunately for us, the immigrant workers are bringing such diseases back to us where health screening had been lax in their home countries.