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View Full Version : Proton's Q2 loss!!



morningmist
30-11-2005, 11:36 AM
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/30/business/12732571&sec=business

Q2 Net loss of RM154.3 million! Face the facts Proton! Either shape up or ship out!

Let's face it man...Proton can't compete with the likes of Toyota, Honda, etc.

newbies
30-11-2005, 11:50 AM
let's give the new ceo a chance to demonstrate his "expertise" in turning around the company....................then only shut down if still cannot "bangun" :D

http://www.theedgedaily.com/cms/content.jsp?id=com.tms.cms.article.Article_dc67d3e c-cb73c03a-df4bfc00-ee326c36

morningmist
30-11-2005, 11:54 AM
I doubt if anything can be done to turn around Proton or even MAS for that matter.
What we need is a professional, capable management team and non government interference/ protectionism....

penangkia
30-11-2005, 01:05 PM
let's give the new ceo a chance to demonstrate his "expertise" in turning around the company....................then only shut down if still cannot "bangun" :D

http://www.theedgedaily.com/cms/content.jsp?id=com.tms.cms.article.Article_dc67d3e c-cb73c03a-df4bfc00-ee326c36


Aiyoyo...not another chance for another CEO for another GLC to "try" and make some money with billions of capital outlay.
Taxpayers' money and Petronas or "people's oil well wells" are not bottomless lar.

newbies
30-11-2005, 04:11 PM
I doubt if anything can be done to turn around Proton or even MAS for that matter.
What we need is a professional, capable management team and non government interference/ protectionism....

hmm, come to think of it who would we be satisfied to take over proton or MAS for that matter that fits the profeesional and capable management team's bill?

any suggestions?.. :rolleyes:

bugbear
30-11-2005, 05:03 PM
The pressure to sell Proton is gathering momentum. It is imperative that Proton get a foreign partner and stop your "tarik harga" attitude as though there are hundred of eager buyers in line.

Whoever be the CEO, I am sure the result will still be the same because the same policy tie the hand of the CEO. They are not free to do as required. Same goes for MAS. IMHO I think it is time to do away with the Malaysian car tag as it is causing untold hardship on the consumer as well as a drain on the people income.

Proton, the sooner you go the better. Personally, I don't feel too great having a Malaysian car but a cheap and reliable car that is not beholden to the power that be.

VeeJay
30-11-2005, 05:53 PM
hmm, come to think of it who would we be satisfied to take over proton or MAS for that matter that fits the profeesional and capable management team's bill?

any suggestions?.. :rolleyes:


They should do as what KIA did. Ford took over and bail them out, once they are stable, back to their own feet...many didnt even know that it happened?!

isarahim
30-11-2005, 06:00 PM
Let's face it man...Proton can't compete with the likes of Toyota, Honda, etc.

On the contrary, I think they can!

But they can never do it with continued government controlling interest and counter-competitive privileges...

GreenBug
01-12-2005, 12:05 AM
The Japanese people are one of the proudest people, when 'cornered' they commit harakiri. Yet, they have Ghosn to head the Mazda rescue and look at Mazda today! Recently, another westerner was head-hunted to lead SONY, whats wrong with that? Best man for the job! :rolleyes:

Teeque
01-12-2005, 01:53 AM
The Japanese people are one of the proudest people, when 'cornered' they commit harakiri. Yet, they have Ghosn to head the Mazda rescue and look at Mazda today! Recently, another westerner was head-hunted to lead SONY, whats wrong with that? Best man for the job! :rolleyes:

Correction GB. Ghosn, the Renault head, took Nissan in. It was Ford who rescued Mazda...

But fully agree, best man for the job...irrespective of nationality and color of his skin.

bslee
01-12-2005, 02:18 AM
I reckon Proton are just too proud!..staunchly believing the slogan of "Malaysia Boleh".
Bikin, bikin, buat, buat sampai "Ta boleh"!

tempuadua
01-12-2005, 02:52 AM
They should do as what KIA did. Ford took over and bail them out, once they are stable, back to their own feet...many didnt even know that it happened?!
So you think Ford is one of the best managed motor company in the world? Click here http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051119/bs_nm/autos_ford_dc and once you know that Ford is currently in deep ****, you will change your mind.
Carlos Ghosn was offered the Ford job, but even he turned it down. May be managing a motor company is not easy as some of us think.

uchangeng
01-12-2005, 08:50 AM
25 years of propehcy comes true. Proton is not a good idea. A financial disaster to the country. We do not need a national car that cost more to the average fellow Malaysian and yet, bleeding our tax payer white!

VeeJay
01-12-2005, 09:35 AM
So you think Ford is one of the best managed motor company in the world? Click here http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051119/bs_nm/autos_ford_dc and once you know that Ford is currently in deep ****, you will change your mind.
Carlos Ghosn was offered the Ford job, but even he turned it down. May be managing a motor company is not easy as some of us think.

:) Been there for teh past 8 years, those job cuts and restructure happens almost every year or so...not only Ford, all the big 3 would be doing it.


It is part of the revamp strategy...they always try out new methodology or process management, quality management,...so forth...but it is still pitiful when they cut jobs...many have to go and hunt for jobs again...and the Union as usual would make a big hoo hah (their job to do so and protect employees), and then the relieved parties would get good compensation...

As for the management, its one time capital cost and done with, they had let-go, those unproductive workers (management perception).
Ford is in deep-**** is nothing new...infact Big 3 has been facing steep competition from Japan initially and now Korean cars giving them “run for their money”. The foreign car are cheaper and their performance and reliability has been steadily increasing over the years…local (American) cars have to go the extra mile to push their car…so the local car is normally equipped with better gadgets like, ABS, Traction control, cruise, etc.

Infact that is what we need in Malaysia, free hand and competition so that local car maker would improve, rather always depending on government support and subsidy.

orchipalar
01-12-2005, 09:58 AM
Err...nobody wants to know?...what's Proton's accumulative losses?

gtl
01-12-2005, 10:09 AM
can anyone tell me, what is proton thinking when they buy into MV Augusta and lotus, kena suckered or was an opportunity to fatten someones pocket??

SunwayKid
01-12-2005, 10:14 AM
Does anyone know of any country where they manufactures (not assembly) car and the population is less than our bolehland? There is just no critical mass to sustain such an industry if we depend on local consumption only.

Where can export.......when our gormen keep on pis*ing off other countries who can supply the critical mass with their actions and policies. Do anyone really believe the loaded Arabs would like to be seen in a Proton?

How they have managed to hide the losses for so long, I suspect is just creative accounting. :rolleyes:

Ski
01-12-2005, 10:21 AM
Its about time they lower the curtains and sell the remaining cars to the scrap junkyard.

penangkia
01-12-2005, 01:14 PM
[QUOTE=SunwayKid]Does anyone know of any country where they manufactures (not assembly) car and the population is less than our bolehland? There is just no critical mass to sustain such an industry if we depend on local consumption only.

Yes. Sweden with their Volvo. Don't know how well they are doing but Volvo is certainly a highly acclaimed international brand for decades.

bslee
01-12-2005, 01:19 PM
Proton is not a good idea. A financial disaster to the country.

The're always GOOD ideas!..BUT sometimes a GOOD idea should STAY an IDEA!.. :D

I'll drink to the rest of what you said!. cheers!

SunwayKid
01-12-2005, 01:44 PM
[QUOTE=penangkia................
Yes. Sweden with their Volvo. Don't know how well they are doing but Volvo is certainly a highly acclaimed international brand for decades.[/QUOTE]

Vovlo has plants throughout the world, and they do not rely solely on Swedish consumption. Proton do as they are only restricted to bolehland.

Majority shareholder in Volvo is Renault. This is what PROTON will be if our gormen can swallow their pride, stick to assembly and sell it to Volkswagon and treat the past two decades as a nightmare, not a dream.

bslee
01-12-2005, 02:20 PM
Vovlo has plants throughout the world, and they do not rely solely on Swedish consumption. Proton do as they are only restricted to bolehland.


Sidetrack a bit about Volvo, but they have and export great commercial engines for trucks and busses too.. Surely you may have noticed our local coaches by Volvo..besides, Volvo could be doing well more on export.
Reminds me of SAAB, another olde Swede company, but cars are probably not their biggest earner but defence and aviation..Jet planes maybe rockets? :)

Proton just can't get a foot into export market todate..unappealing produce and wrong timing! :rolleyes:

tempuadua
01-12-2005, 09:08 PM
25 years of propehcy comes true. Proton is not a good idea. A financial disaster to the country. We do not need a national car that cost more to the average fellow Malaysian and yet, bleeding our tax payer white!
Not quite! Proton may be doing badly as a business entity but the fact remain that the government actually benefitted from Proton. Read this newspaper article http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/archive.asp?y=2005&dt=1106&pub=utusan_malaysia&sec=rencana&pg=re_05.htm&arc=hiveand you will know that the Proton Project actually never "bleed our tax payer white". Pls give credits where it is due.
On second thought, Proton should have spend its profits during the early years to train its people and improve its facilities instead of giving it to the government as dividends.

sinleong
06-12-2005, 12:32 AM
when i was in sweden i noticed that most people drive a volvo. one of my swedish friends came over to work in malaysia and his choice of car... a volvo XC90.

i don't think many malaysians would look for a proton to buy in australia or UK where they are being sold. even in malaysia, people buy a proton because it is value for money... and that value is caused by government protection, not by the product's own value. don't u think it's a bit of a shame.

when i was in the UK, i read the proton's advertisments in the newspaper - japanese technology, malaysian style... my friends ins chool used to joke, "how do you double the value of a proton? - get it a full tank"

so, how to be proud?

kevin23
06-12-2005, 12:58 AM
proton=toy car

DONT buy proton! even the new SRM!
Malaysia Tak Bolehlah! Memang Tak Boleh! tidak apa mah!

trifecta
06-12-2005, 08:01 AM
proton=toy car

DONT buy proton! even the new SRM!
Malaysia Tak Bolehlah! Memang Tak Boleh! tidak apa mah!

Wow u love pissing off on your country and on ppl dont you. Have you watched American History X, the part where Edward Nortons teacher visitied him in jail. He said something like stop bitc***ing about what ppl have done to you etc, just what exactly have you done to improve your life? Same here what exactly have you done for your country for you to spit on it like you did in the first place?

kress
06-12-2005, 09:18 AM
Not quite! Proton may be doing badly as a business entity but the fact remain that the government actually benefitted from Proton. Read this newspaper article http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/archive.asp?y=2005&dt=1106&pub=utusan_malaysia&sec=rencana&pg=re_05.htm&arc=hiveand you will know that the Proton Project actually never "bleed our tax payer white". Pls give credits where it is due.
On second thought, Proton should have spend its profits during the early years to train its people and improve its facilities instead of giving it to the government as dividends.

the article doesn't provide any proof whatsoever.... like that i also can say i give rm 100 million to gomen for taxes lar.... and the article itself is also biased....

why more superior models for export? e.g. wira export has air bags whereas local models have nothing... you hit you die lar...

secondly, it claims that mercedes has problems...that i don't doubt but mercedes doesn't give you a ****ty attitude when you go to their service centre and spend a whole frickin day there and still can't solve the problem... and all the tech person can say is "biasa lar...proton"....

thirdly, why compare the price of a gen2 and wira ?.... Instead, why doesn't the article highlight that in the 1990's a new saga used to cost rm 30,000 only? why a 66% increase in price? same old ****ty technology after all..

i think it's high time that malaysians stood up and said that we won't be taking this BULL****\ anymore.

kevin23
06-12-2005, 10:03 AM
Wow u love pissing off on your country and on ppl dont you. Have you watched American History X, the part where Edward Nortons teacher visitied him in jail. He said something like stop bitc***ing about what ppl have done to you etc, just what exactly have you done to improve your life? Same here what exactly have you done for your country for you to spit on it like you did in the first place?

the problem is what gives proton the right to sell to its RAKYAT JELATA half baked products?? i dont piss off my country..! ppl talking about protonlah!

tempuadua
07-12-2005, 05:13 AM
the article doesn't provide any proof whatsoever.... like that i also can say i give rm 100 million to gomen for taxes lar.... and the article itself is also biased....

why more superior models for export? e.g. wira export has air bags whereas local models have nothing... you hit you die lar...

secondly, it claims that mercedes has problems...that i don't doubt but mercedes doesn't give you a ****ty attitude when you go to their service centre and spend a whole frickin day there and still can't solve the problem... and all the tech person can say is "biasa lar...proton"....

thirdly, why compare the price of a gen2 and wira ?.... Instead, why doesn't the article highlight that in the 1990's a new saga used to cost rm 30,000 only? why a 66% increase in price? same old ****ty technology after all..

i think it's high time that malaysians stood up and said that we won't be taking this BULL****\ anymore.

i think you missed the point here. the article was meant to answer the allegation that proton bleed taxpayers money. The point here is that Proton actually generated money for the government. It did not wasted government's or rakyat's money. As for your allegation that the article doesn't provide any proof whatsoever, and that you also can say that you give RM100 million to the government, I think Tengku Mahaleel will not be that stupid to make that kind of statement in a national newspaper where everybody can read and rebut it. Proton is a public listed company and its audited accounts are available as public record. And for the record, so far nobody ever come out, not even the opposition parties, to dispute any of the figures quoted by Tengku Mahaleel. Btw, if you tell the world that you have given RM100 million to the government, I would be the first person to ask you this question: Why give to the government? why not give to me????

tempuadua
07-12-2005, 05:18 AM
the problem is what gives proton the right to sell to its RAKYAT JELATA half baked products?? i dont piss off my country..! ppl talking about protonlah!
Malaysia is one of the most open market in the world when it come to selling motor vehicle. Almost all the brands in the world are being sold in Malaysia without any restriction (Remember the APs?). My point is: RAKYAT JELATA is totally in control of their choice which brand to buy.
p/s: I am so proud to watch Norwich City team playing in the EPL with the word "PROTON" on their chest!

kevin23
07-12-2005, 10:58 AM
Malaysia is one of the most open market in the world when it come to selling motor vehicle. Almost all the brands in the world are being sold in Malaysia without any restriction (Remember the APs?). My point is: RAKYAT JELATA is totally in control of their choice which brand to buy.
p/s: I am so proud to watch Norwich City team playing in the EPL with the word "PROTON" on their chest!

yes the problem is LAST time proton were good! juz look at the wiras and sagaz....last till now...so everybody thought the same is going for the waja!
so they as rakyat jelata made a choice to support the national car by getting a waja! imagine their horror when within a month u get a faulty door,and power windows not working? btw, i spend 5k to repair my gf waja last month!
gear box rosak,rear lights not working,wiper suddenly fly out while using it during heavy rain juz to name a few! now u get the idea! Errrr...norwich is in division ONE not in EPL for ur info! o btw,their logo looks ugly on their jerseys!

bugbear
07-12-2005, 10:41 PM
Agrees with you kevin23. I think proton should just stop right now so that car prices would not be inflated to make their car looks good. I mean why are we paying such a high price just do that proton can appear cheap but at the same time poor quality?

orchipalar
08-12-2005, 09:28 AM
Err...still nobody has yet to post whether or not...Proton had incurred accumulatively loss or profit over 25 years or so...in its operations...??:confused:

CS Chua
08-12-2005, 11:31 AM
Actually on the whole, Proton has made more money than losing it. It is only recently they have such hugh losses. The government has never need to come in to bail it out like MAS, Bank Bumiputra etc. In that aspect, we are relieved.

As for Proton's miserable situation, Proton has revealed the main reason for it. It is called the National Agenda. Interpreted, it means Proton has to be the cash cow for thousands of unworthy, unqualified and uncompetitive vendors (suppliers.) The sad fact of the matter is, even though they recognise the problem, they are unwilling to address it. It is obvious that is the reason why they would not allow VW or anybody else to gain management control. A good man at the top will do the right thing. Reduce expenses by getting quality parts at the most competitive price. Which means these vendors will be shut down (but better ones will take its place).

In America, I was told that manufacturers will switch suppliers even if the price difference is 5 cents per item (of course they buy by the millions so the total sum is a lot). If Proton goes professional 100% and with the strong government backing, there is no reason why Proton cannot be a world class company. That is a better National Agenda, if you ask me.

kevin23
08-12-2005, 12:15 PM
they buy cheap parts that look good..thatz y waja so cheap for that kind of sedan size...juz look at vios..so much smaller but price arnd 85k+++...it is no wonder nobody wants to buy a proton,must as well pay abit more get toyato or honda...

uchangeng
08-12-2005, 02:39 PM
National Agenda? Good for politicians, bad for the business.

So, everytime a GLC loses millions, blame it on National Agenda or whatever, and be sure that no one will ever, ever, question you. It is the absolute right of the privilleged race guranteed by law, can not question, never mind the entire company goes down the toliet!

Despite the millions of the Rakyat's money they lost out of his incompentency, the YBhg Chairman is still smiling and talking like a national hero in the press. If I were him, I resign la... Strange that People like that, or rather crony like that, have an overwhelmingly thicker facial skin. Tak tahu malu punya!

In Japan, the Chairman would have bow to the worker and offer his resignation the very day. Over here, they behave like "no one can touch me" and "who care as long as the PM l ike me".

tempuadua
09-12-2005, 12:53 AM
Actually on the whole, Proton has made more money than losing it. It is only recently they have such hugh losses. The government has never need to come in to bail it out like MAS, Bank Bumiputra etc. In that aspect, we are relieved.

As for Proton's miserable situation, Proton has revealed the main reason for it. It is called the National Agenda. Interpreted, it means Proton has to be the cash cow for thousands of unworthy, unqualified and uncompetitive vendors (suppliers.) The sad fact of the matter is, even though they recognise the problem, they are unwilling to address it. It is obvious that is the reason why they would not allow VW or anybody else to gain management control. A good man at the top will do the right thing. Reduce expenses by getting quality parts at the most competitive price. Which means these vendors will be shut down (but better ones will take its place).

In America, I was told that manufacturers will switch suppliers even if the price difference is 5 cents per item (of course they buy by the millions so the total sum is a lot). If Proton goes professional 100% and with the strong government backing, there is no reason why Proton cannot be a world class company. That is a better National Agenda, if you ask me.
Agree with CSChua!!!!Unlike MAS, BCB, Proton was never in need of any bail out from the government. In fact, Proton could be the only GLC that has actually generated money for the government. Basically, Proton is a good company with a lots of room for improvement. Currently, Proton still has around RM2 billions in its coffer, and I believe Proton still can be saved, provided the right person heads it.
In terms of motor engineering capability, Proton has it (thanks to Lotus). Unfortunately, excellent engineering capability will come to nothing if the materials (supplied by vendors) are of poor quality. In order to improve, the first thing that the management should do is to be strict on vendors. If Proton start to be strict with vendors and reject all the components that are of inferior quality, I believe the vendors will start producing goods with the required quality. Is it possible that Tengku Mahaleel was ousted because he was starting to do things right and in the process caused "some problems" to some of Proton vendors? Don't underestimate the "vendors' power"!!!!