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Bigjoe
23-11-2005, 08:26 AM
http://www.thestar.com.my/

http://teresakok.blogsome.com/2005/11/23/morning-raid-on-chinese-nationals-homes/

Anybody who do not believe that deep down we have a lot of fascist in our midst is just plain making excuses or lying.

RJBrown
23-11-2005, 09:55 AM
I wonder how many Thai, Indonesian, Bangladesh etc......"disappear"?

Does it matter?

cherry
23-11-2005, 11:33 AM
Not forgetting Filipinos in my hometown.... We have plenty of them there.

kudat
23-11-2005, 01:18 PM
The way our Police treated the Chinese nationals is worse than whatever we have heard about China's Police State....

It is down right embarrasing, and the officers responsible should be punished to the full extent of the law, which unfortunately, in this case, will probably never happen since the 'investigation' is by the Polis on their own 'brothers'.

My Indonesian workers related so many experiences that they have with the Polis, I do not doubt a word from these Chinese ladies. Not a word.

Ski
23-11-2005, 03:17 PM
Talking about Chinese nationals and touristis...the Malaysian authorities are looking for some 50,000 Chinese nationals at large in the country.

They entered this year as tourists, but have not checked out, and a major operation is being planned to track them down.

Several possibilities have been mooted: They might be involved in vice activities in Malaysia or may be using Malaysia as a transit to a third country, most likely in the West, using a forged passport.

Said a source: 'At this juncture, we are trying to ascertain if these Chinese tourists who entered the country on social visit passes are indeed still here.'
The 50,000 figure for these 'untraceables' was based on the number of visitor cards returned upon departure by tourists that failed to match the visa applications approved by their countries of origin.

Where are these "tourisits" and what buisness are they conducting in this country?
Many Malaysian wifes are aware and distraught as they find their husbands meeting some of these "women" for cheap entertainment and pleasure.

kudat
23-11-2005, 03:30 PM
what i fail to understand is the statement that says 'The 50,000 figure for these 'untraceables' was based on the number of visitor cards returned upon departure by tourists that failed to match the visa applications approved by their countries of origin.'

is that all we have to determine whether the visitors have left or not? By a piece of paper? what happen to the computerisation? our immigration tallies visitors by a piece of paper?

SunwayKid
23-11-2005, 03:34 PM
Talking about Chinese nationals and touristis...the Malaysian authorities are looking for some 50,000 Chinese nationals at large in the country..................
.

Not that it is right but at least, it is only 50,000 and they do provide some sort of "entertainment" like you said, Ski. Tell the authorities to trace the aliens from Indonesia, depending who you speak to can run into millions. The same authorities ultimately either give up after each high profiled indemnity period given or played out by the other side.

orchipalar
23-11-2005, 03:40 PM
Not that it is right but at least, it is only 50,000 and they do provide some sort of "entertainment" like you said, Ski. Tell the authorities to trace the aliens from Indonesia, depending who you speak to can run into millions. The same authorities ultimately either give up after each high profiled indemnity period given or played out by the other side.
Err...thanks SunwayKid:)...in ONE breath...ya took out all of Orchi's words...

Oh...don't forget...majority of those...have 'ill' gotten the so called freaking...National Identity Cards like you...you...you...n Orchi...in short...NRICs...ahem...shorter?...I/Cs...!!! :mad:

So...Orchi says...BRING on ALL the Chinese nationals...millions more...err...whom would be considered to be...probably the BEST check n balance practice...?? Orchi doesn't mind at all...would any of you mind???

Ski
23-11-2005, 03:53 PM
Its all boils down to lax immigiration laws big time triads and agents, with that comes corruption of course..they know our country is a country of opportunities and they can buy themselves in no problem.. semua boleh... tutup mata. So welcome dear brothers, we need another 1.5m to balance up :D they might be already here.

gnehkgnep
23-11-2005, 04:13 PM
I heard from my colleagues that India too are exporting their ppl here.....can b seen quite aplenty at Brickfields/Sentul.....

So let's MUHIBAH!!! :D ......bring in everyone (for tourism).....else kick out everyone....(illegal immigrants) :p

dirk_diggler
23-11-2005, 05:48 PM
Msia govt is just a pathetic establishment. Do you guys know that you can literally cross over at our southern gateway? And I mean literally.

1. Motorcylists have a special lane with no immigration check whatsoever.
2. Car drivers may wave a little blue book at an immigration officer to pass. Even if you do the right thing by handing over your passport, most of the time, the officer pretends to scan it. Imagine getting your passport back almost immediately. The guy didn't even bother to open it.
3. Pedestrians, just walk on over.

If you're on the run from the authorities, just walk over (provided the other side is not alerted) and its freeeeeedom!! There are hundreds of thousands of people crossing over everyday and the govt is nitpicking on a certain race. What about the millions of indons. Thow a stone into a crowd and chances are, you are very likely to hit an indon with a fake id. Developed nation in 15 years. Zero chance. Instead I see the end --> Proton & MAS

layman
23-11-2005, 07:35 PM
dilemma for our gomen

1 chinese tourists -big spenders -holds the world record for the hghest spending visitors to any land

2 impose stringent visa requirements in malaysia -deter chinese visitors
3 japan EU hk singapore and thailand providing visa free for tourist from china-wooing and luring $ from chinese
4 where do u think the majority of chinese illegeals will gravitate malaysia vs japan vs EU vs singapore. the answer is obvious 50000??? choose to overstay in malaysia why????? 4 whys

GreenBug
23-11-2005, 08:10 PM
If you walk into the Karamunsing shopping complex in Kota Kinabalu, you think you're shopping in one of the Filipino complexes right in downtown Manila itself. The complex, like the others in KK, all are filled by Filipinos speaking Tagalog. I spoke to one of these Filipino girls at a counter selling Sabah souvenirs and......

SHE SHOWED ME HER MYKAD LAH! AIYOH SI LIAU LAH! :eek:

wAISEKMAo
24-11-2005, 02:05 PM
I heard from my colleagues that India too are exporting their ppl here.....can b seen quite aplenty at Brickfields/Sentul.....

So let's MUHIBAH!!! :D ......bring in everyone (for tourism).....else kick out everyone....(illegal immigrants) :p

IT MAKES ME THINK ABOUT EACH RACE INCREASING IT'S SHARE OF NATIONAL RACE PERCENTAGE.

1. THE INDIAN INCREASES IT'S PEOPLE BY IMPORTING FROM INDIA.

2. THE CHINESE INCREASES IT'S PEOPLE BY IMPORTING FROM CHINA.

3. THE MALAY INCREASE IT'S PEOPLE BY GIVING BIRTH.

SOUNDS ... ??

gnehkgnep
24-11-2005, 02:22 PM
IT MAKES ME THINK ABOUT EACH RACE INCREASING IT'S SHARE OF NATIONAL RACE PERCENTAGE.

1. THE INDIAN INCREASES IT'S PEOPLE BY IMPORTING FROM INDIA.

2. THE CHINESE INCREASES IT'S PEOPLE BY IMPORTING FROM CHINA.

3. THE MALAY INCREASE IT'S PEOPLE BY GIVING BIRTH. + INDON

SOUNDS ... ??

But funny think is even Indon oso come here and being given MyKad.....yet some of our very own ppl here up to now still unable to become a citizen........ :confused:

orchipalar
24-11-2005, 03:58 PM
But funny think is even Indon oso come here and being given MyKad.....yet some of our very own ppl here up to now still unable to become a citizen........ :confused:
Err...these folks have long been RED carded since...err...don't take Orchi's words for it...next time ya walk into the freaking national registrar department...ahem...do talk to the older folks that are sitting besides you....n waiting...endlessly without a clue...as to why after countless numbers of visits in their life time...being bounced from one place to another...err...still wouldn't able to get their nationality right... :rolleyes:

Bigjoe
24-11-2005, 05:03 PM
Those who think this is still a laughing matter, see China Press today for shocking picture of what the fascist think of us minorities in this country. There was an MMS that was sent to parliament too.

go to http://blog.limkitsiang.com for pictures

Deep down, there is some element of the same sentiment is in most Malays and most of them may not even be conscious of it. Those who don't think 1969 riot cannot happen again. Think again.

orchipalar
24-11-2005, 07:22 PM
Deep down, there is some element of the same sentiment is in most Malays and most of them may not even be conscious of it. Those who don't think 1969 riot cannot happen again. Think again.http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=98289&postcount=17

Err...should Orchi be NOT mistaken...dear BIGJOE:)...please allow Orchi to ask you this...ahem...are you posting this...from Singapore...???

mackzulkifli
24-11-2005, 07:34 PM
Those who think this is still a laughing matter, see China Press today for shocking picture of what the fascist think of us minorities in this country. There was an MMS that was sent to parliament too.

go to http://blog.limkitsiang.com for pictures

Deep down, there is some element of the same sentiment is in most Malays and most of them may not even be conscious of it. Those who don't think 1969 riot cannot happen again. Think again.

Wow BigJoe, you sound like a guy who spent years doing his research about how the malays hate the chinese in this country. That's funny because I am a malay and call many of my best friends by their name, seldom thinking what race they may be.

You call most malays fascists. I wonder who is the bigot here?

I fear that you sound as if you are looking forward to a racial riot. I find that very suspect.

kwwong99
24-11-2005, 07:57 PM
Dear all

I am glad the PM is now acting on this issue now, and I do hope something positive will come out of this. What makes me sad about this is how the police have tarnished their image over and over again. And now, we have to resort to damage control.

I don't think this is a racial issue - but rather the rampant abuse of authority and corruption in the police force. And how most politicians like Azmi always in denial mode, and further screw things up for us. How our public universities being in denial and further screwed up. How our public delivery system are abused, and so on and on and on and on.

We know all about this and we still tolerate it. I always believe in our new PM to lead us and change to the better, but after two years with not much changes, I am begining to lose hope.

Regards


November 24, 2005 19:28 PM

PM Orders Azmi To Visit China To Clear Up Misperception


KUALA LUMPUR, Nov 24 (Bernama) -- Home Affairs Minister Datuk Seri Azmi Khalid has been ordered by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi to visit China to explain that Malaysian enforcement agencies are not targeting Chinese women.

Azmi said the matter was "very urgent" and he had to put off plans to visit Pakistan.

Abdullah issued the instruction following several alleged incidents of Chinese women being stripped while under detention, their money stolen and enforcement officers peeping at them.

"The Prime Minister phoned me and instructed that I go to China to restore the confidence of Chinese nationals in our country," he told a news conference in Parliament House, Thursday.

He denied that immigration officers were profiling women from China entering Malaysia for illegal purposes and it was not the policy of the department to make such an assumption against tourists from any country.

"We have never done that...it arose from public perception," he said.

He said immigration officers took action against foreign tourists who committed wrongdoings regardless of their nationality.

Azmi said his visit to China would be one of the approaches to correct this negative perception.

Regarding a video clip showing a woman ordered to strip and do an "ear-squat" by police officers, he said he could not determine whether the woman was a tourist.

"Nevertheless, I believe an investigation would be made into this shameful incident," he said.

Meanwhile, a senior officer from the Petaling Jaya police district headquarters went to the press room in Parliament House, Thursday to view the video, which was recorded by TV3, in order to identify the policewoman who appeared in it.

-- BERNAMA

kwwong99
24-11-2005, 07:58 PM
Dear all

I am glad the PM is now acting on this issue now, and I do hope something positive will come out of this. What makes me sad about this is how the police have tarnished their image over and over again. And now, we have to resort to damage control.

I don't think this is a racial issue - but rather the rampant abuse of authority and corruption in the police force. And how most politicians like Azmi always in denial mode, and further screw things up for us. How our public universities being in denial and further screwed up. How our public delivery system are abused, and so on and on and on and on.

We know all about this and we still tolerate it. I always believe in our new PM to lead us and change to the better, but after two years with not much changes, I am begining to lose hope in this beloved country of ours...

Regards


November 24, 2005 19:28 PM

PM Orders Azmi To Visit China To Clear Up Misperception


KUALA LUMPUR, Nov 24 (Bernama) -- Home Affairs Minister Datuk Seri Azmi Khalid has been ordered by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi to visit China to explain that Malaysian enforcement agencies are not targeting Chinese women.

Azmi said the matter was "very urgent" and he had to put off plans to visit Pakistan.

Abdullah issued the instruction following several alleged incidents of Chinese women being stripped while under detention, their money stolen and enforcement officers peeping at them.

"The Prime Minister phoned me and instructed that I go to China to restore the confidence of Chinese nationals in our country," he told a news conference in Parliament House, Thursday.

He denied that immigration officers were profiling women from China entering Malaysia for illegal purposes and it was not the policy of the department to make such an assumption against tourists from any country.

"We have never done that...it arose from public perception," he said.

He said immigration officers took action against foreign tourists who committed wrongdoings regardless of their nationality.

Azmi said his visit to China would be one of the approaches to correct this negative perception.

Regarding a video clip showing a woman ordered to strip and do an "ear-squat" by police officers, he said he could not determine whether the woman was a tourist.

"Nevertheless, I believe an investigation would be made into this shameful incident," he said.

Meanwhile, a senior officer from the Petaling Jaya police district headquarters went to the press room in Parliament House, Thursday to view the video, which was recorded by TV3, in order to identify the policewoman who appeared in it.

-- BERNAMA

lord
24-11-2005, 08:31 PM
For all you guys who missed TV3's primetime news, please do not miss Nightline of the same channel at midnite for the latest news on the sexual abuse by the cops at Sg. Buloh police station. A video footage of one of the Chinese ladies doing ear squat and a policewoman watching it was aired in the parliament today.

Watch it!!

orchipalar
24-11-2005, 08:47 PM
For all you guys who missed TV3's primetime news, please do not miss Nightline of the same channel at midnite for the latest news on the sexual abuse by the cops at Sg. Buloh police station. A video footage of one of the Chinese ladies doing ear squat and a policewoman watching it was aired in the parliament today.

Watch it!!
Err...she having been 'ordered' to strip NAKED...was video taped with a mobile phone(as per the TV3 news) without her knowledge...while she was video taped doing the earsquat...:o

Err...from what Orchi could witness from the tape recording replay...aired by TV3 just now...a Police woman was present in the same lockup watching the Chinese female national all along...n it's possible also that other Police personnels may be present to witness the incident...also:o

GreenBug
24-11-2005, 09:26 PM
.... if this video gets copied, just one copy, of her naked, this is going to be primetime news in all the channels in mainland China. MAS (and Air Asia) can forget about flying China and Airbus can deliver the A380 to the 'little red dot' down south lah.... :mad:

dragonfly
24-11-2005, 10:30 PM
Nazri in his comments today questioned why was the 'punishment' carried out with the door ajar. Otherwise, the incident, even if reported by the victim afterwards, could be easily brushed aside as false and no evidence to show it did happened!

In this case, the policewoman who was present during the incident, reminds me of Miss Lyndon (American GI) unleashing a prisoner with chains in the Abu Gharaib prison in Iraq. Or was she instructed by higher authorities to do what she did?

Now poor Azmi Khalid is forced by his boss to leave his beautiful new wife in the cold and do some damage control in the land of the red army! Perhaps the 'painful separation' would make him think twice in future not to brush aside any complaints against the police. Or perhaps take his wife along for an all expenses paid 'working trip'!

orchipalar
24-11-2005, 11:22 PM
Err...'detainees' were being interrogated n treated like this...in lockups of some Police stations...?

Ahem...Orchi can't imagine what it would be like...should the 'detainees' were to be sent to prisons...instead :eek:

Err...hard to say lah Orchi...most likely they(in prisons) would be treated differently...perhaps...:o

bobkee
24-11-2005, 11:56 PM
Here's the link to the video clip (http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/43554) .. which has been edited .. and my take (http://www.bobjots.org/archives/001722.php) on this travesty.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am sick of living in disgust and fear of the PDRM.


Too Little Justice
Too Many Cops

USJ27Resident
25-11-2005, 02:09 AM
from MP Lim Kit Siang's Blog
20-second MMS creates unprecedented stir among Ministers and MPs
Time & Date: November 24, 2005 @ 16: 02.26
Categories: Scandals General Police

A 20-second MMS has created an unprecedented stir in Parliament among Ministers and MPs. It shows a naked woman in a room or cell, with back to the camera, instructed by a policewoman to do ten “ear squats”. There was one brief showing the naked woman from the front.

Two still photographs of the video appeared on the front-page of China Press today.

It shocked Ministers and MPs of both gender who saw the video, including those who habitually behave as if they live in a dream-world where abuses and excesses of power by the authorities never take place, and the fault always lies with those who complain about them. (more…)

And I thought I was fantasizing/imagining things every time I see our cub-chai cops hiding in bushes and behind signboards.... sheeeesh!

Malu... malu... even my honest cop friends are embarrased about this shocking incident...

Bigjoe
25-11-2005, 05:56 AM
You call most malays fascists. I wonder who is the bigot here?

I fear that you sound as if you are looking forward to a racial riot. I find that very suspect.

In no way, did I even say that and Mack in some way proof my point about the issue here.

I consider Mack and many like him to be the most conscious and people like him the best that the Malays have to offer. However, he is a minority and what is serious is firstly that those not like him are many more and while fascist are the minority, their influence and consequence of their influence and method are far far more powerful. One way to think of the sentiments in Malays is to look at them in a spectrum and in one end are people like Mack but on the other end is people like the fascist. Inside all of them are combination of each end of that spectrum. To think there isn't some part of each is naive. The issue is which part will be allowed to set the course of debate and it begins not by denying and it must involve taking charge and responsibility and reaching out to those affected. The less the proactive on everybody part, the more the indication of the sympathy and tolerance of the ugly.

kudat
25-11-2005, 07:37 AM
I am ashamed to call myself Malaysian now.......

Bigjoe
25-11-2005, 08:40 AM
Mack,

Read Theresa Kok latest post on the MMS. The police actually lodge a report against China Press for breaking this story. Still thing the fascist are just few like our Security Minister?

Ski
25-11-2005, 09:11 AM
This I suppose have been going on for a long time with all nationalities,out of shame and fright many have never brought out this in the limelight, we really dont know what really goes on behind the police cells, do we?

These abuses and taking advantage of these merciless women might still contunue in secret who to know how to stop them.

gtl
25-11-2005, 09:19 AM
to the police, i am ashamed as a malaysian that we treat women like this. i am also glad that **** like this is hitting the fan. let's see some heads rolls.

if china were to flex their muscle and protest against malaysia, we will be at the losing end.........abu ghaib treatment also available in malaysia, do not know how PM going to complain abt american treatment of iraqi prisoners when we ourselves do it. malu.

kudat
25-11-2005, 09:19 AM
NST said Polis is probing who did the recording....

I fail to see why who did the recording is more important than what was on the recording. Shouldnt the 'actions' be more important than the cameraman in this sort of situation?

penangkia
25-11-2005, 09:39 AM
The Chinese have a tour package called SingMaThai in cantonese, meaning quite obviously, Sing, Mal. and Thailand. The Cantonese from Guangdong province forms one of the biggest tourist groups from China followed by Fujianese, Shanghainese etc..

Looks like this package will now change to SingThai.

When I was working in China, I never miss a chance to promote and encourage mainland Chinese friends and collegues to visit Bolehland...saying the people friendly, good foods, no problems with local dialects, safe place , value for money etc.etc. Many other Malaysian who worked in China did the same.

We don't need thanks from the gomen for being good ambassadors as we are just being proud Malaysians doing our bit and wanting to show off bolehland to the Chinese.

Now this. :mad:

The people in China ( and eleswhere) are not totally ignorant about Chinese Malaysians and others being discriminated in Bolehland.

This case is very believable in China even if the allegations turns out to be false after the "investigations"

Don't forget, the allegations follow just after the cases of the Chinese boy murder trial and the the Johor bashed up wedding party.

SARS could'nt have done worse to Malaysia Truely Asia.

Truely Asia? and doing this to fellow Asians???? What a Fuc*king joke.

Bigjoe
25-11-2005, 09:55 AM
Now I am ashamed of Malaysian Chinese. This should not be an argument about economics or power play. It is about what we stand for, who we are. Its about doing the right thing and standing up for the right thing. In short its about principles. If we don't stand up and make it absolutely clear than we deserve it. Tolerance is not about tolerating wrong and in fact the opposite, its about not tolerating wrong, its not tolerating compromise on principles. If the first thing out of your mouth that only 1% of the force is bad you condone this kind of behaviour. Its the same as the police lodging a report against China Press and threatening Teresa Kok for highlighting the issue. You care not for the larger picture but narrow interest. That is just plain wrong

penangkia
25-11-2005, 10:15 AM
[QUOTE=Bigjoe]Now I am ashamed of Malaysian Chinese.


Care to elaborate more specifically how you came to that conclusion ?

JackRyan1975
25-11-2005, 10:15 AM
Now I am ashamed of Malaysian Chinese.

Why are you ashamed of us? Care to elaborate please?

Bigjoe
25-11-2005, 10:36 AM
I Am ashamed because its clear at least a few are refering to Chinese tourist dollar when talking about this issue. Even Lim Kit Siang is subtlely refering to tourist dollars as he refers to a minister trip to investigate China tourism drop. It betrays a subconscious thinking that its about dollar and sense and economic bargaining power. Not a single Malaysian should even think like this much less a Malaysian Chinese. Its betrays a poor sense of conviction of right and wrong period. It betrays a lost identity, principles and values.

orchipalar
25-11-2005, 10:46 AM
http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=98289&postcount=17

Err...should Orchi be NOT mistaken...dear BIGJOE:)...please allow Orchi to ask you this...ahem...are you posting this...from Singapore...???

202.156.6.3
SINGAPORE CABLE NETWORK PROVIDER
192.169.41.44
NS2.PACIFIC.NET.SG
NS1.PACIFIC.NET.SG


Originally quoted by BigJoe: I Am ashamed because its clear at least a few are refering to Chinese tourist dollar when talking about this issue. Even Lim Kit Siang is subtlely refering to tourist dollars as he refers to a minister trip to investigate China tourism drop. It betrays a subconscious thinking that its about dollar and sense and economic bargaining power. Not a single Malaysian should even think like this much less a Malaysian Chinese. Its betrays a poor sense of conviction of right and wrong period. It betrays a lost identity, principles and values.
Err...dear BigJoe:)...Orchi is still curious...as you have not responded to Orchi's earlier question...could you be speaking in a capacity of being a malaysian chinese?...or a Singaporean Chinese?...yourself?...or are you trying to speak...on behalf of one...if so which one? :confused:

kwwong99
25-11-2005, 10:51 AM
I strongly suggest our PM to apologise to the people of China and the Chinese government and take immediate action against the police involved in days if not in a week or two. And this should not take months or years, and subsequently swept under the carpet. The police are very good in this, and so is the present government.

The funny thing (or not so funny anymore), all these issues are highlighted by opposition parties only, DAP in particular. Why? Where are MCA, MIC or UMNO??? Trying hard to cover up????

Despite over 90% people mandate given to the present government, this is what we are getting. Sadly, I was one of them, thinking the to be new government will be a better one.

In our next election, I don't really have to think so hard when throwing my vote...and I suggest you do the same.

Bigjoe
25-11-2005, 10:54 AM
202.156.6.3
SINGAPORE CABLE NETWORK PROVIDER
192.169.41.44
NS2.PACIFIC.NET.SG
NS1.PACIFIC.NET.SG


Err...dear BigJoe:)...Orchi is still curious...as you have not responded to Orchi's earlier question...could you be speaking in a capacity of being a malaysian chinese?...or a Singaporean Chinese?...yourself?...or are you trying to speak...on behalf of one...if so which one? :confused:


Again, should it even matter? Think about it, do I sound like I do not know what its really like in Malaysia?

orchipalar
25-11-2005, 11:03 AM
Again, should it even matter? Think about it, do I sound like I do not know what its really like in Malaysia?
Err...yes BigJoe:)...you are absolutely entitled to your own opinions n share your own experiences here...BUT Orchi feels you may have other ulterior motives n be inciting racist remarks n intents in this forum...

kudat
25-11-2005, 11:08 AM
Again, should it even matter? Think about it, do I sound like I do not know what its really like in Malaysia?


Sir, you are evading the question again.

unfortunately, it is not pleasant times for Malaysians, we need to do a bit more clean up, yes, more transparency?yes.

what is not needed is blaming certain racial quarters only.

today, Malaysians of all races must band together to reinvent ourselves.

penangkia
25-11-2005, 11:22 AM
Err...yes BigJoe:)...you are absolutely entitled to your own opinions n share your own experiences here...BUT Orchi feels you may have other ulterior motives n be inciting racist remarks n intents in this forum...


Thanks Orchi, saved me some time to respond.

Unless bigjoe can answer our question more convincingly, he can keep his principles to himself. So far all the pathetic reasoning given is crap.

kwchang
25-11-2005, 11:24 AM
I am taking BigJoe down due to his incessant attempts at pushing racialist comments with no relevance to the issue at hand. The current issue is currently the question of abuse of power by certain police personnel. It is very easy to look at it in racial lines and if we allow this to go on, we would be an accessory to BigJoe's attempts to find faults along racial lines, which we do not need.

I fully agree with Kudat in the view that for the emergence of Malaysian as a race, we should not allow for divisions by ethnic lines. So long as we play to these racial tunes, we will always be suspicious and unfriendly. Not a good thing for our hopes for a harmonious Malaysia. BigJoe took the opportunity to bring up many racial issues which we feel are downright distasteful, unnecessary as well as destructive to all our efforts for neighbourliness in this forum.

kudat
25-11-2005, 11:37 AM
My Malay friends are just as furious with what has happened. the words he used are not what can be put donw here.... :eek:

there are cops from other racial groups who are also on to this, for sure....

funny thing so far, not a sound from the IGP, MCA, MIC, UMNO, Gerakan, ....

orchipalar
25-11-2005, 11:48 AM
Err...a rumour is circulating...that the certain authority is investigating...the possibiltiy whether or not...the video tape incident...could have been pre-meditated to smear the good name of the Police force... :rolleyes:

kwwong99
25-11-2005, 12:18 PM
Those in authority, the police and government, should not evade the real issue ie the abuse of authority and criminal intimidation of this poor Chinese lady. Instead those idiotic politician or police coming with statement like - one or two in the police force are blacksheep or the video maybe faked are really uncalled for. It doesn't take a lot to screw things up, but ten times the effort to remedy them.

If this is what we have, we have to take action and own up, and not coming out with more excuses and denials. At the rate we are going, our beloved country will be screwed by these idiots in no time if we don't pull our strength together now irrespective of our political beliefs.

Lim Kit Siang was right to point out that the politicians are living in a dreamland where everything in Malaysia is perfect ie the police can do no wrong, the public servants are all angels, the government is free from corruption, and even if there is, there is only one or two involved.

What a bull****!

orchipalar
25-11-2005, 12:38 PM
Err...Orchi hopes Orchi is allowed to ask this...

Ahem...has any of our thousands n thousands of Malaysian males or females tourists...visitors or Malaysian expats...whom had visited or stayed in China before...was ever faced with or subjected to any 'ill-treatments' by any Chinese authorities in any manners there before...?

JackRyan1975
25-11-2005, 12:46 PM
I feel we should look at the broader picture of the abuse of power by the police force. Whether we are offending the Chinese, Indians or whatever countries is secondary and is a result of the incompetent and corrupt police institution. It does not matter if the person in the video is a Chinese national or a Malaysian to me. The police and government must be held accountable and come clean with their explanation and apologies TODAY, and not after months of investigations.

SunwayKid
25-11-2005, 01:11 PM
....................
Ahem...has any of our thousands n thousands of Malaysian males or females tourists...visitors or Malaysian expats...whom had visited or stayed in China before...was ever faced with or subjected to any 'ill-treatments' by any Chinese authorities in any manners there before...?

The only ill-treatment on me was the SYT who was merciless and continuosly inflict serious pain by pressing the nerves of my foot in the foot massage parlour despite my howls. :D

Other than that, seriously, the team I was with was never singled out and passing their immigration was a breeze and none of us was given the opportunity to display our assets, eh...luggage. I would like to believe that it has nothing to do with race. ;)

kwwong99
25-11-2005, 01:13 PM
I suppose that's why our PM is sending our Azmi to Beijing to apologise to the people of China and Chinese government this 30th Nov. I hope he is not going to tell them bull**** but the truth.

Just imagine how much bad publicity we will receive and this reflects on the whole nation. At the end of the day, Malaysians will be the losers as China is going to be a very important economic and security force in this region in a few years time. Thanks and no thanks to our bunch of corrupted and incompetence police force and government, China may just bypass Malaysia as a tourist destination (which they doing it already...), trading partners and friends.

This is indeed as sad day for all Malaysians, and Malaysia as a whole.

Dr. J George
25-11-2005, 01:13 PM
WHAT WILL PAK LAH TELL THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS & HEAD OF STATES ATTENDING CHOGM?

Our Premier Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has arrived in Malta to attend the five-day Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) beginning today!

I wonder what he will say to the countless international journalists and foreign head of states attending the event on the embarrassing abuse of a foreigner in Malaysian Police custody in a fashion that reminds us of the Abu Gharaib Prison in Iraq.

And sadly, the individual who perpetrates the vary act one wearing a tudung which in itself sends the wrong signal again on Islam to the world at large!

Of course we all know that the headscarf may be political for some, religious for others, fashion to another quarter and whatever else for others.

The pressure would be greater since – Pak Lah is also wearing another hat that of an OIC Head and this despicable act happens in Malaysia - a country whose past and present leaders have a passion and audacity to preach to the world on morality, ethics, good governance and human rights and with growing amnesia on what really happens in our own backyard and backwaters!

Choon1980
25-11-2005, 01:26 PM
What will he say? The usual: Semuanya Ok! Malaysia Boleh! We only made someone strip and do ear squats, not human pyramids!

kwwong99
25-11-2005, 01:27 PM
And in no time, the whole world will bypass us. And this already happening today. Lesser investment, lesser tourists, lesser trading partners, lesser friends.

Thanks and no thanks again to our incompetence government. We may as well make friends with monkeys now when we have no friends left in this world.

penangkia
25-11-2005, 01:35 PM
Err...Orchi hopes Orchi is allowed to ask this...

Ahem...has any of our thousands n thousands of Malaysian males or females tourists...visitors or Malaysian expats...whom had visited or stayed in China before...was ever faced with or subjected to any 'ill-treatments' by any Chinese authorities in any manners there before...?

I speak for myself. I lived in China for 2 years and carry a little green IC booklet in my wallet. This identifies me as a foreign national with foreign investments in China. If anything, this gives me some "special previledges" meaning they have to tread carefully when dealing people like us. Of course, this does not include committing any cardinal sins. :p

However, having said that, the mannerisms of police and immigrant officers in China generally still leave a lot to be desired. :eek:

layman
25-11-2005, 01:50 PM
Err...Orchi hopes Orchi is allowed to ask this...

Ahem...has any of our thousands n thousands of Malaysian males or females tourists...visitors or Malaysian expats...whom had visited or stayed in China before...was ever faced with or subjected to any 'ill-treatments' by any Chinese authorities in any manners there before...?

orchi

i lived in london for 10years and china (beijing shanghai and HK)for another 10years and has never been harrassed or stop unnecessarily by the local police authorities.

i have a healthy respect for the police in Uk and particularly Hk china

Voter
25-11-2005, 01:55 PM
The pictures were captured using a handphone? I am sure the Police will strip bare everything, including any handphones, to prevent a recurrence of their babaric actions being captured again!

Nic_of_Time
25-11-2005, 02:00 PM
Frankly i would suspend judgement first,
as it is too early to comment on this, for
it could be a set up.
It is not difficult to get a policewoman uniform
and the place look more like a gym dressing room
rather than a lock-up.
Could also be a dom-sub session.

However, if proven to be truly an abuse, then
let the fireworks begin.

uchangeng
25-11-2005, 02:16 PM
Please, please stop condemning our own PM.. How is Pak Lah going to face the international journalists is entirely irrelevent. No one is trying to cover up the issue here. The minister already talked about it in the press with LKS. by his side(this time), it is out in the open. In fact, the cabinet has even directed a minister to go to China to give the Chinese 1st hand information. What else is there to be "faced"?

Ok., may be this is seen as a damage control, a mop up job. So? not too late isn't is?

In the USA., I was asked to take out my belt a few times at the LAX and even in Fort Worth. Others with "Mohd." in their names were even finger-print. So?

The Chinese, as we know them, have reputation. You know what I mean.

DatinLawa
25-11-2005, 02:46 PM
Please, please stop condemning our own PM.. How is Pak Lah going to face the international journalists is entirely irrelevent. No one is trying to cover up the issue here. The minister already talked about it in the press with LKS. by his side(this time), it is out in the open. In fact, the cabinet has even directed a minister to go to China to give the Chinese 1st hand information. What else is there to be "faced"?

Ok., may be this is seen as a damage control, a mop up job. So? not too late isn't is?

In the USA., I was asked to take out my belt a few times at the LAX and even in Fort Worth. Others with "Mohd." in their names were even finger-print. So?

The Chinese, as we know them, have reputation. You know what I mean.

no, i dunno what you mean. at this point of time, we are not even sure if the victim is a china chinese or malaysian chinese or indonesian chinese or whatever. so what chinese are you referring to now?

even if she is a china chinese, what gives you the right to generalize her to be another "notorious" chinese? this is not the issue about the chinese but about the abuse of power by our pdrm. even if they are interrogating a real suspect, they have no right to do that too. so please don't sensationalize the issue and live in the world full of crap.

profiling the illegals is wrong. suing the student is wrong. threatening the 3 chinese ladies who lodged a police report is wrong. is this going to continue? how many more wrongs before we can get it right? it's a national issue that affects all malaysians in the eyes of the world, not just the chinese.

kwwong99
25-11-2005, 02:50 PM
I don't know what you mean, uchangeng.

When you were in USA, were you asked to take off your underwear as well and did ear squating?

What is your point here?

dragonfly
25-11-2005, 03:31 PM
funny thing so far, not a sound from the IGP, MCA, MIC, UMNO, Gerakan,

Kudat.....there is nothing funny about the silence of the component parties in this issue.......since everyone have their own agenda. Remember, nobody came in defense of Sothinathan when suspended and the 'keling' name calling in parliament. Why? Don't want to offend big brother laaa....!

fedup
25-11-2005, 03:52 PM
Why are we giving the PM a hard time. The press should be asking women MPS & Ministers from MCA & Gerakan what have they got to say. playing dumb by getting fat allowance or looking for clog up drains. I really wonder why do people or the nation need so many MPS & Ministers especially from the barisan .Semua OKay no comments no actions just take fat fat allowance. :rolleyes: I wonder where is ng yen yen & where is puteri umno. Let us all give our PM a rest & let all the fat minister handle it and earn their keep for once.

Ski
25-11-2005, 04:12 PM
TGIF nobody is going to spoil my weekend..you guys can bang your heads over this disgusting "National" issue I am off for the weekend ;)

TQ

pucman
25-11-2005, 06:00 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4468810.stm

BBC and the world now knows about malaysian police force !

blues
25-11-2005, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=Dr. J George]

I wonder what he will say to the countless international journalists and foreign head of states attending the event on the embarrassing abuse of a foreigner in Malaysian Police custody in a fashion that reminds us of the Abu Gharaib Prison in Iraq.

And sadly, the individual who perpetrates the vary act one wearing a tudung which in itself sends the wrong signal again on Islam to the world at large!

Of course we all know that the headscarf may be political for some, religious for others, fashion to another quarter and whatever else for others.

.......... and this despicable act happens in Malaysia /QUOTE]



We also must not act like international journalist nor that we quick to believe.......!!!

fedup
25-11-2005, 07:06 PM
The police are more interested in finding out who did the filming rather than who are in the pictures MALAYSIA BOLEH MALAYSIA BOLEH MALAYSIA BOLEH SEMUA OK SEMUA OK SEMUA OK Bangsa Bangsa Bangsa These are the usual slogans we hear & see. The image will be in everybody's mind for a long time. Whenever you see some one wearing a tudong those images will come to mind. :eek: :rolleyes: :o

Teeque
25-11-2005, 07:12 PM
Things never change or rather old habits die hard.

The first thing the police wants to do is find out who, what, where, how regarding the film. The 'ol find the scapegoat and point fingers' approach. When do they ever learn?

newbies
25-11-2005, 09:02 PM
someone's gonna be in trouble...

yet another famous event for azmi and a "pening kepala" for pak lah...

dragonfly
25-11-2005, 09:40 PM
When the case of highway landslides/cracks on elevated highway early this year there were calls by all quarters for the Works Minister to resign.....even MPs from BN joined the band wagon. And now such inhumane acts by the police has been exposed, why is there no calls for the Home Minister Pak Lah,his deputy Azmi Khalid or the IGP to admit responsibility and resign??

Not too long ago the 'samseng' top cop smashed up a defenseless deputy PM. So it seems this tradition is alive,well and thriving in the police force. The Royal Commission of Enquiry, white paper and what not are just a waste of public money and time. A tiger will never change its spot and so does the PDRM.

On second thoughts, perhaps the officers did what they did as it is the will of GOD!

sly
25-11-2005, 09:47 PM
Please, please stop condemning our own PM.. How is Pak Lah going to face the international journalists is entirely irrelevent. No one is trying to cover up the issue here. The minister already talked about it in the press with LKS. by his side(this time), it is out in the open. In fact, the cabinet has even directed a minister to go to China to give the Chinese 1st hand information. What else is there to be "faced"?

Ok., may be this is seen as a damage control, a mop up job. So? not too late isn't is?

In the USA., I was asked to take out my belt a few times at the LAX and even in Fort Worth. Others with "Mohd." in their names were even finger-print. So?

The Chinese, as we know them, have reputation. You know what I mean.

ya i know what u meant....what u meant is the stuff that indah water handles......

trifecta
25-11-2005, 09:54 PM
Mack,

Read Theresa Kok latest post on the MMS. The police actually lodge a report against China Press for breaking this story. Still thing the fascist are just few like our Security Minister?

What the hey??? Nobody stands up for Mack Z yet everybody was up in arms going after this clown after his malaysian chinese remark...hello he started his bigotry with a jab at Malays and MacZ first!!!!! Crap sorry i usually dont read up and post this forums on company time but if i had seen this earlier i would have had your back Mac

trifecta
25-11-2005, 10:09 PM
ya i know what u meant....what u meant is the stuff that indah water handles......

Respect his point he just says that some Chinese Nationals sometimes (in case anybody thinks that i'm dissing my own chinese heritage for wat it's worth i'm malaysian till i die and aint no punk gonna take that away from me) have the tendency to overstay and be involved in certain illicit activities prompting suspicion in many places they go just like moslems and many nationals of red flagged countries in the United States. The actions of some have prompted the suspicion of many. Of course this doesnt make it right but who says the worlds fair :). I really think he made a typo here and got the wrong message across and i doubt if he doesnt feel the least bit outraged bout this piece of crap and he syrely isnt condoning what was done to this poor lady (if proven the video was legit). I dont post much on this boards but i do read alot since a while back and he's one of our more level headed posters.

GreenBug
25-11-2005, 10:33 PM
In the USA., I was asked to take out my belt a few times at the LAX and even in Fort Worth. Others with "Mohd." in their names were even finger-print. So?I don't see your point on this example you brought up. Sometimes, going thru the airport scanners in Changi, I have to remove my belt too, thats a security procedure, whats so wrong with that? At the Brunei airport, even the Muslim ladies in robes are asked to go to a separate private room for a full or more thorough body search, whats wrong with that? If it is for the safety of the rest of the passengers, why not?


The Chinese, as we know them, have reputation. You know what I mean.Because of 100,000 prostitutes, you damned the 1 billion Chinese women? C'mon uchangeng, lets be fair lah.... So, its okay then to draw pictures of a pig behind their breakfast vouchers of every Chinese tourist? :mad:

pucman
26-11-2005, 12:00 AM
I

Because of 100,000 prostitutes, you damned the 1 billion Chinese women? C'mon uchangeng, lets be fair lah.... So, its okay then to draw pictures of a pig behind their breakfast vouchers of every Chinese tourist? :mad:

Prostitutes happen in every race in malaysia and the world in fact. :mad:

penangkia
26-11-2005, 12:23 AM
Prostitutes happen in every race in malaysia and the world in fact. :mad:

Prositution is the oldest profession in the world and was invented by the Chinese..so they are the originals. The police should instead hunt down the fakes to safeguard copyrights. :D :D

Greenbug,

You mentioned 1 billion Chinese women. China's total population is 1.4 billion...where did the 300 million additional leng luis come from if the gender split is say 50/50 ?
If you are right, Aiyoyo...4 men to 10 leng luis... China here I come :D :D

joker2107
26-11-2005, 02:12 AM
i don't know y anybody is harping on 50000 missing bitches(?). no doubt i want em outta msia, but at d same time, we must not forget that 50k is just a very small fraction of 1.2 million, ie d published govt estimate of illegal workers in d country. is there really sufficient effort 2 nab em, remove em from their comfort zone, and return our resources 2 loyal msians? any op must not target any demographic group - get rid of all illegals, 2 hell wit colour creed n culture.

btw any mathematician 2 figure out wat percentage of our population is 1.2 mil? wats d ratio - like on average 1 in every 5 or 10 or 100 people we meet 1 is an illegal?

source : http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=3991 (Updated: 06:05PM Mon, 12 Jul 2004)

Govt steps up efforts to deport 1.2m illegals

KUALA LUMPUR: The government wants to ensure that about 1.2 million illegal workers in the country return home before the MyKad system, which includes foreign workers, is fully implemented.

"There are 1.2 million legal workers and an estimated 1.2 million illegal workers, or maybe more, in the country," he said after opening the two-day Fourth CardEx Asia 2004 exhibition and conference at Putra World Trade Centre on Monday.


source : http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=4198 (Updated: 11:28AM Tue, 27 Jul 2004 )
Dealing with illegal immigrant workers

ANY WHICH way you look at it, the government's plan to repatriate an estimated 1.2 million illegal immigrants by the end of next year is rather ambitious, to say the least.

blues
26-11-2005, 06:40 AM
dilemma for our gomen

1 chinese tourists -big spenders -holds the world record for the hghest spending visitors to any land



must realise also with huge population hold the world record of problematic visitors to any land,disappears in the country.

Voter
26-11-2005, 01:11 PM
From the Star today quoting the DIGP.

“There will not be any cover-up, and anyone involved in any illegal activity, like recording or even using a phone in a restricted area, will be brought to book. We will not hesitate to dismiss them..."

Read between the lines, the focus of investigation seems to be who recorded, not why the act.

orchipalar
26-11-2005, 01:19 PM
Err...as reported in the China Press daily...when the relevant head of Police was called to the Parliament to witness n 'identify' the video recording...he admitted to the press at the time...that the shot was taken at one of the room in his 'station'...n that he could recognize the lady officer 'clearly'...n said "She is one of our personnels"... :rolleyes:

Ahem...now it seems...anything could be doctored to look or say otherwise...??:rolleyes:

Orchi says...the culprit(s) whom ever they may be...should make amends...do the right thing...n come forward to admit n own up to their mistakes n wrong doings... :rolleyes:

It would certainly save further shame to the nation as a whole... :o

Dr. J George
26-11-2005, 01:29 PM
So there is no such thing as a 'conspirasy theory' or that the "JEWS" were behind this massive operation to smear the country's image or that this is another publicity stunt by the opposition? :rolleyes:

Phew! :D

So we must admit that there is something seriously wrong that need fixing and not sweeping under the carpet as 'biasa' .......... :cool:

One thing is certain - according to reports that I have received from abroad from NGO friends and those in diplomatic services - the image that we have floated in the international arena has received a rather drastic bashing! :o

And tourists arrivals figures is expected to go down further. :(

tempuadua
26-11-2005, 11:07 PM
what i fail to understand is the statement that says 'The 50,000 figure for these 'untraceables' was based on the number of visitor cards returned upon departure by tourists that failed to match the visa applications approved by their countries of origin.'

is that all we have to determine whether the visitors have left or not? By a piece of paper? what happen to the computerisation? our immigration tallies visitors by a piece of paper?
Yes, we do that and so do Thailand. If you go to Bangkok, the Thais immigration department do that too. When you fly in as a tourist, you are given a form to fill up and a copy is given to you. On your departure, you have to give it back to the officer with your passport. There is a barcode on the paper, so to a certain extend, computers is also involved. Please don't think lowly of our immigration department. They have a tough job to do.Remember, apart from dealing with "external traitors", they also have to deal with some "local Malaysian traitors" who try to smuggle these aliens into Malaysia illegally.

tempuadua
26-11-2005, 11:13 PM
Those who think this is still a laughing matter, see China Press today for shocking picture of what the fascist think of us minorities in this country. There was an MMS that was sent to parliament too.

go to http://blog.limkitsiang.com for pictures

Deep down, there is some element of the same sentiment is in most Malays and most of them may not even be conscious of it. Those who don't think 1969 riot cannot happen again. Think again.

PLEASE CLARIFY: ARE YOU CALLING THE MALAYS FACIST?

tempuadua
27-11-2005, 12:27 AM
NST said Polis is probing who did the recording....

I fail to see why who did the recording is more important than what was on the recording. Shouldnt the 'actions' be more important than the cameraman in this sort of situation?
To be fair to all quarters, the first thing that need to be investigated is the location of the prison/lock-up. With all the technology available, it is not impossible to "stage and record" this kind of movie. The first thing that police should tell us is the location of the police station/lock-up, and possibly the name of the policewoman.

kwwong99
27-11-2005, 12:28 AM
Dear all

What has happened already happened. There is nothing anyone can do to restore the poor Chinese lady dignity. The BIG QUESTION NOW is how to make a different for a better Malaysia?

As I have said in my earlier posting, I used to think that the present government under AAB will make a difference. How wrong I was. However, I will make amend and make a difference in our next general election in 2 years time ie to give the opposition a stronger mandate - at least to help them to deny BN a 2/3 majority. And hopefully, from hereon, we can have more check on the government, and corruption and abuses in the public sectors.

I never thought I will do this - but I am so disillusioned with the current government. Yet I am still very much a Malaysian inside and because my love for Malaysia will never change, I will try to make a difference.

Regards

joker2107
27-11-2005, 01:54 AM
read all d related articles in the star 26/11. either d editors r real bad or every quarter on d govts side is so independent that they do not know what d other is doing. they just seem 2 contradict each other at will, i begin 2 wonder if laws r made 2 order on d spot! :confused: :mad: :confused:

n not to forget, y is d cops questioning d reporter who is suspected 2 b d 1 2 hv recorded d shame. if its genuinely 4 d purpose of fact finding agst d perpetrator, maybe make him a prosecution witness, fine. but if, as i read somewhere, some big guns threatening action agst d cameraman, and d questioning is thus related, somthing must b hell of a very very very wrong. i mean, like cops dead bent on shutting up those who squeal agst em r guilty of a crime worse that in d video clip.

i heard d royal commission rpt on the police force has been rubbished. anyone can confirm this? yes or no, current events r definitely rubbishing d force.

USJ27Resident
27-11-2005, 02:41 AM
seems to me that this 'mms' video scandal is soon gonna be a forgotten thing.

these perpertrators would also be charged in court ~ and lo behold.. end up free, because of ANOTHER technicality... or lack of evidence. :rolleyes:

and guess what... maybe the policewoman can oso sue the 'mms cameraman' for shame and humiliation that she (the policewoman) had to endure... and while she's at it...she would also sue the girl that was forced to strip too... on the notion that she (the policewoman) wouldn't be in this hot soup if this girl never entered the country in the first place....

NOW... WHAT IF this poor woman that was forced to strip is a Malaysian Chinese woman ~ I can bet my last dollar this matter would be forgotten much faster... and you can bet what our Minister/Police can and might say to the PRC Government,... "so solli ah... not your china gal... ours la..." :mad:


ps.. no offence to my friends in the force but i hope you fellas would start kicking out those that give in to the dark side of the force... with the boot!

orchipalar
27-11-2005, 03:08 AM
Err...they could turn n twist all they want...now the whole world knows...what kinda hypocrites n liars we have got running the shows...since the incidents happened here...one way or another...n sooner or later...WE PAY for the consequences...

Ahem...have any of you heard or read any comments from...the other high profiled leaders of this nation...current or ex.??

Err...has any of the following mentioned anything at all regarding the recent spats of Police forkups?

Foreign Minister
MCA Chiefs...including Michael Chong
Gerakan Chief
MIC Chief
PPP Chief
Umno Youth Chiefs
NGOs Chiefs
Wanita Chiefs
Human Rights Chiefs
Yang Dipertuan Agong
Ex. IGPs
Ex. PM

Anyone heard or read anything yet? :mad:

...but in this case...it evidently involves a female Police officer...err...where one may or could discount as the possibility that...this could be an isolated case...right?...n EVERYBODY sees the naked victim being humiliated...n ordered to do what...err...earsquats...?

What would or could happen in the cases...ahem...when suspects or detainees...were to be 'investigate' or 'interrogated' by male Police officers...??? :mad:

orchipalar
27-11-2005, 03:18 AM
seems to me that this 'mms' video scandal is soon gonna be a forgotten thing.

these perpertrators would also be charged in court ~ and lo behold.. end up free, because of ANOTHER technicality... or lack of evidence. :rolleyes:

and guess what... maybe the policewoman can oso sue the 'mms cameraman' for shame and humiliation that she (the policewoman) had to endure... and while she's at it...she would also sue the girl that was forced to strip too... on the notion that she (the policewoman) wouldn't be in this hot soup if this girl never entered the country in the first place....

ps.. no offence to my friends in the force but i hope you fellas would start kicking out those that give in to the dark side of the force... with the boot!

Err...bak kata perpatah..."kerana nila setitik, rosak susu sebelanga"...???

Ahem...Fat Chance!! :rolleyes:

orchipalar
27-11-2005, 04:51 AM
From the 1990s, Sino-Malaysia relationship reached the new level of development with close cooperation and contacts in various areas such as trade, tourism, education, cultural, science and health.

With some 1.3 billion population and strong economic growth, China has provided one of the best markets for Malaysian products.

In 2002, with bilateral trade reaching 14 billion US dollars for the first time, Malaysia became the largest ASEAN trading partner for China, replacing Singapore.

In fact, bilateral trade has been on the up trend ever since the establishment of diplomatic relations. Value of bilateral trade increased to over 20 billion US dollars in 2003 from no more than 100 million US dollars in 1974. It is expected to hit 25 billion US dollars in 2005.

Meanwhile, People-to-people contact has been also on the rise. In 2001, about 460,000 Chinese tourists visited Malaysia and the figure increased to 560,000 in 2002. In addition, some 11,000 Chinese students are studying in Malaysia's various institutes of high learning.

http://english.people.com.cn/200405/31/eng20040531_144851.html

Err...the above article is dated May 31st...2004...which marks as the 30th Anniversary...since The Late n 2nd Prime Minister Tun Abdul Razak Hussein(current DPM's Father)'s visit where both countries established bilateral relations...n it contains interesting statistics of bilateral ties between Malaysia n China...since.

Ahem...of late...prior to the current spats of news outbreaks about our Police 'affairs' with the Chinese victims...our tourism ministry had previously announced a sharp reduction in arrivals of Chinese tourists...which amounts to the recent about 146,000 Chinese tourists only...without taking into consideration to any changes in the Chinese student arrivals...yet...:o

So from now...would we see any further reductions on Chinese tourists arrivals...or any reductions in bilateral trades figures...? :rolleyes:

Err...shortly after the 30th Anniversary?...bak kata sepatah...a chinese Hokkien might say..."ma ta?...toh sak gu leen...ahem...pek pek liao...?" :rolleyes:

tempuadua
27-11-2005, 09:58 AM
Err...they could turn n twist all they want...now the whole world knows...what kinda hypocrites n liars we have got running the shows...since the incidents happened here...one way or another...n sooner or later...WE PAY for the consequences...

Ahem...have any of you heard or read any comments from...the other high profiled leaders of this nation...current or ex.??

Err...has any of the following mentioned anything at all regarding the recent spats of Police forkups?

Foreign Minister
MCA Chiefs...including Michael Chong
Gerakan Chief
MIC Chief
PPP Chief
Umno Youth Chiefs
NGOs Chiefs
Wanita Chiefs
Human Rights Chiefs
Yang Dipertuan Agong
Ex. IGPs
Ex. PM

Anyone heard or read anything yet? :mad:

...but in this case...it evidently involves a female Police officer...err...where one may or could discount as the possibility that...this could be an isolated case...right?...n EVERYBODY sees the naked victim being humiliated...n ordered to do what...err...earsquats...?

What would or could happen in the cases...ahem...when suspects or detainees...were to be 'investigate' or 'interrogated' by male Police officers...??? :mad:
While I fully agree with your view, I think the basic question that need to be established here is the truth that the incident really happened in a Malaysian police station/lock-up. Somebody with a strong agenda against the government/police, and with a bit of funds, can easily create a "movie" like this. I remember there was a report saying that the last few second of the video clip shows that the woman momentarily stared at the camera indicating that she knew that it was being recorded. I hope somebody who has a copy of the video clip can verify this.

Jaytea
27-11-2005, 10:11 AM
“It is the perpetrator behind the video clip whom we are after and not the policewoman, who was carrying out a routine check,” said Musa.

a routine check????

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/27/nation/12708062&sec=nation

Police to go after person who filmed naked woman

BY LOURDES CHARLES

KUALA LUMPUR: Who shot the scenes? This is the crux of police investigations into the controversial video clip showing a naked Chinese woman doing ear squats while in police custody.

Deputy Inspector-General of Police Datuk Seri Musa Hassan said whoever took the video clip - whether from the force or a civilian – would be charged under the Penal Code with insulting the modesty of a person or intruding into the privacy of a woman.

The offender can be fined or jailed up to five years or both.

The 70-second video had made the rounds via the multimedia messaging service (MMS) over the past week.

The clip, depicting the nude woman doing ear squats in front of a policewoman at the Petaling Jaya district police headquarters, caused national outrage and Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has called for an immediate probe into the incident, with no cover-ups.

“It is the perpetrator behind the video clip whom we are after and not the policewoman, who was carrying out a routine check,” said Musa.

“We will not be lenient, especially if it involves police personnel,” he added, declining to comment on the woman who was forced to do ear squats.

Musa also said a special team under his supervision had interviewed a number of people regarding the incident.

In Kepala Batas, DERRICK VINESH reported that North Seberang Perai OCPD Asst Comm Mazlan Lazim as saying that the police should continue strip-searching suspects.

ACP Mazlan said it was an effective way to ensure that no foreign object is brought into the police lock-up, adding that in the past, some suspects had tried to hide cigarettes, pills, matchsticks and razor blades in their private parts.

“The video clip should not stop police officers from carrying out their duties,” he said at a police DeepaRaya open house at the Taman Bakti children’s home here yesterday.

He added, however, that the strip search must be done in an “appropriately and holistic” manner.

On the ear squats, ACP Mazlan said, in some cases, simple exercise steps and corporal punishment were carried out to ensure the suspects stretched out their arms and legs to ascertain there were no hidden items.

He said women officers usually strip-searched female suspects while the men did the same to male suspects.

orchipalar
27-11-2005, 10:12 AM
I think the basic question that need to be established here is the truth that the incident really happened in a Malaysian police station/lock-up. Somebody with a strong agenda against the government/police, and with a bit of funds, can easily create a "movie" like this. I remember there was a report saying that the last few second of the video clip shows that the woman momentarily stared at the camera indicating that she knew that it was being recorded. I hope somebody who has a copy of the video clip can verify this.
Err...Saudara Tempuadua:)...while Orchi could appreciate where you are coming from...but Orchi owes it to you to inform you that...in today's China Press daily..."police identified the lady constable...taken her statements...n off she goes for a matenity leave(yes she is reported to be pregnant)...n the police has reportedly said...that the room is not a lockup...but it's one of the rooms in PJ District HQ..."...n "they are still pursuing the matter to find out who is the other whom had taken the video shot...at the same time...the police have questioned it's reporter about the source of the video recording...n they have ordered the press to surrender the evidence..."

"A HIGHly ranked Police officer(Deputy Chief IGP Datuk Sri Musa Hassan) is quoted to say that...it's part of police procedures...n it's a 'routine' practice that they order suspects to strip...n do the earsquats...coz addicts normally would hide drugs in their anus..."

Err...dear Folks:)...go figure that out...n come up with your own conclusions...TQ:)

BTW...she is in jeopardy...what difference would it make...IF she noticed n stared at...the someone taking POT shots at her stripping...naked n doing the earsquats...???

Err...should this happened...in front of an officer of other ethnic groups...how different would the news n headlines be...???

Ahem...worst scenario would be...should this be happening to a lady victim of the major ethnic group...or say to an Indonesian gal...in front of an officer of other ethnic groups...n then how???

Orchi believes...it would have been another 'controversial' chapters...in Malaysian History...no?

tempuadua
27-11-2005, 10:44 AM
Err...Saudara Tempuadua:)...while Orchi could appreciate where you are coming from...but Orchi owes it to you to inform you that...in today's China Press daily..."police identified the lady constable...taken her statements...n off she goes for a matenity leave(yes she is reported to be pregnant)...n the police has reportedly said...that the room is not a lockup...but it's one of the rooms in PJ District HQ..."...n "they are still pursuing the matter to find out who is the other whom had taken the video shot...at the same time...the police have questioned it's reporter about the source of the video recording...n they have ordered the press to surrender the evidence..."

"A HIGHly ranked Police officer(Deputy Chief IGP Datuk Sri Musa Hassan) is quoted to say that...it's part of police procedures...n it's a 'routine' practice that they order suspects to strip...n do the earsquats...coz addicts normally would hide drugs in their anus..."

Err...dear Folks:)...go figure that out...n come up with your own conclusions...TQ:)

BTW...she is in jeopardy...what difference would it make...IF she noticed n stared at...the someone taking POT shots at her stripping...naked n doing the earsquats...???

Err...should this happened...in front of an officer of other ethnic groups...how different would the news n headlines be...???

Ahem...worst scenario would be...should this be happening to a lady victim of the major ethnic group...or say to an Indonesian gal...in front of an officer of other ethnic groups...n then how???

Orchi believes...it would have been another 'controversial' chapters...in Malaysian History...no?
I posted my earlier post before reading today's paper. I've just read today's papers (i went out to buy the morning papers after posting the above) and fully agree with Orchi on this matter. May be its time that the police or the Deputy Minister himself disclose to the public all the available "methodologies and procedures" that Police normally use to do to people in the lock-up.
In view of the Deputy IGP and Deputy Minister's statements, I think its time that we should really have an Act to protect "whistleblowers" in Malaysia.

orchipalar
27-11-2005, 10:53 AM
I posted my earlier post before reading today's paper. I've just read today's papers (i went out to buy the morning papers after posting the above) and fully agree with Orchi on this matter. May be its time that the police or the Deputy Minister himself disclose to the public all the available "methodologies and procedures" that Police normally use to do to people in the lock-up.
In view of the Deputy IGP and Deputy Minister's statements, I think its time that we should really have an Act to protect "whistleblowers" in Malaysia.
Err...100% SOKONG!! your suggestion...n what happens to EVERY detainee's rights to his or her legal representation to be present in any Police interrogations...n questioning processes...

How about the Police in Malaysia would UPHOLD the law...to serve n protect the people...err...or have they TOTALLY forgotten about reading the rights of ANYONE...whilst discharging their duties....

Err...you are hereby reminded of your rights to remain silent OR anything you say can be held against you in the FREAKING Malaysian court of law...you are be entitled to appoint an attorney or...ONE could be provide for you...??? :rolleyes:

Geez...Orchi just realized that MALAYSIAN LAWS OR POLICE has NOT GOT anything close or similar to that...to protect the innocent until proven guilty...??? :mad:

Err...IS there any legal councils or advisers in the house...???...or can anyone express WHAT rights have we got...should we be hurled up to the Police lockups...anyone? :confused:

kwchang
27-11-2005, 12:36 PM
I posted my earlier post before reading today's paper. I've just read today's papers (i went out to buy the morning papers after posting the above) and fully agree with Orchi on this matter.

I remember that Saturday's TheStar already published the location of the lockup and the confirmation that it was indeed a real lady police constable in the picture. With hot stories like this, please check the local dailies to verify. The Star is also online, so no excuse for not buying the papers.

Tempuadua, you asked bigjoe a question earlier regarding his comments on fascism - BigJoe has been banned and he thus has no means to answer or post to this Forum as BigJoe.

tupai
27-11-2005, 07:48 PM
...
Err...IS there any legal councils or advisers in the house...???...or can anyone express WHAT rights have we got...should we be hurled up to the Police lockups...anyone? :confused:

eh bro...can u not see? Since day 1 of usj.com.my, there REALLY isn't any legal beaver here to comment publicly on all the abuse nor advise us, ignorant fools, on what2do with our rights?

Why give free advice when one can charge for it???:D I wouldn't. Well, i suppose there is a free legal aid service somewhere...

Dear Mighty Neebokaneezer, Please allow me to grow up fast and face reality faster.

Yang Amat Blur lato tupai

orchipalar
27-11-2005, 09:05 PM
eh bro...can u not see? Since day 1 of usj.com.my, there REALLY isn't any legal beaver here to comment publicly on all the abuse nor advise us, ignorant fools, on what2do with our rights?

Why give free advice when one can charge for it???:D I wouldn't. Well, i suppose there is a free legal aid service somewhere...

Dear Mighty Neebokaneezer, Please allow me to grow up fast and face reality faster.

Yang Amat Blur lato tupai
Err...so tree dwelling buddy Tupai:)...could Orchi safely say...that folks are left to fend for themselves...should there be one day...somebody is hurled up by the cops...?

Ahem...or perhaps...there's something that one could consider...err...were to get the first n quickest 'resources' available...to seek a 'safe passage' or 'assistance' to one's own right n freedom...? :rolleyes:

Err...oh wait a minute...that was what went down...with the case of the student in Seremban...yes?...n then what?

One could consider to exercise the option of filing a formal complaint with the Police or with the freaking bureaucratic system of some gomen anti corruption agency...err...but then it would mean that...one has probably considered as well...for signing a 'death' or 'harassment' wish...?? :rolleyes:

Err...let's see how Merry of a Christmas...it would be for those 'unfortunate' victims of 'circumstances'... :eek:

Teeque
28-11-2005, 05:27 AM
Also, food for thought.

Who is the lady that appeared in that 'incriminating' video and had her spread all over the major media in town and has she been identified? If so, has the lady tried to pursue her rights and dignity with legal means? Or like most Malaysians, she chose to keep quiet and hope this thing blows away soon and forgotten. I hope the press seeks this person out and let the Polis - Raja di Malaysia seek out their 'perpetrator'. She could hv a very strong case against the Polis and hit jackpot, u know wat i mean...

pokemon
28-11-2005, 07:40 AM
Whatever this case will go to, they are going to get year-end bonus with allowances, aren't they? Who cares??? :D

VeeJay
28-11-2005, 10:08 AM
Phew...at least some one dare enough to talk some sense into the police force!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Groups: Cops on the wrong track

BY IZATUN SHARI

PETALING JAYA: Malaysians from all walks of life are dismayed the police seem more interested to uncover the person who took the controversial video clip of a naked Chinese woman doing ear squats while in custody.

The Star was inundated with calls from the public who pressed for the force to focus instead on the way the woman was treated and humiliated before a policewoman at the Petaling Jaya headquarters.

In the wake of the outrage, however, Selangor police chief Datuk Yahya Udin said last night they had questioned eight police personnel suspected of being involved in the incident.

The personnel were from the Petaling Jaya station, Bernama quoted him here yesterday.

However, he declined to reveal the ranks or the gender of the police personnel who were questioned.

Quoting sources, the news agency said the investigation papers on the case had been sent to the Bukit Aman police headquarters.

Former Global Transparency International vice-chairman Tunku Abdul Aziz Ibrahim, who is also International Institute of Public Ethics director, said the police were on the wrong track as they should not be too concerned about who shot the video.




Abdul Aziz, who is also a member of the Royal Commission to Enhance the Operation and Management of the Royal Malaysian Police, said what was more important was the incident which took place at the police station.

“If the police start looking for the person who took the film, no one will come forward. (Then) whatever the police do will never become public.

“The public is entitled to know about police procedures in terms of human rights. In certain circumstances, a strip search is in order but (here), we are concerned about the way the procedure was done.”

Malaysian Human Rights Commission (Suhakam) member Prof Datuk Hamdan Adnan said that asking detainees to strip and do ear squats was against the universal declaration of the right to dignity.

He said police should look at the rank of the policewoman who purportedly ordered the detainee to do ear squats.

“If she is just a constable, surely an officer should take responsibility for the lack of discipline in the lock-up.”

Malaysian Bar president Yeoh Yang Poh questioned whether ordering detainees to do ear squats was a normal procedure before sending them to the lock-up area.

“If the police say this is normal practice, it is a wrong normal practice. It must be stopped,” he said.

A caller, company director Xavier Gomez, said Musa’s remarks were “unacceptable”, adding: “If what was done was considered normal procedure, then there is a need to revamp the system as there is something seriously wrong with it.”

Consumers Association of Subang and Shah Alam president Jacob George said the association received 85 calls yesterday from locals and foreigners expressing dismay over Musa’s remarks.

“His statement is regrettable because the Prime Minister had talked about accountability, transparency, good governance and had sent clear instructions to take immediate action over the matter. The premier did not mean that police should take action against the person who exposed irregularities in the force,” he said, adding that the association called for a meeting between the Home Ministry and non-governmental organisations to discuss the matter to ensure that the public would not lose confidence in the force.

Lawyer Sankaran Nair said in the Inspector-General Standing Order and the lock-up rules, there was no specific mention of ear squats as being required for detainees, except under exceptional circumstances such as searching for drugs or prohibited items.

Seputeh MP Teresa Kok, who gave her statement at the Petaling Jaya police headquarters yesterday on how she got hold of the now infamous video clip, said the police should avoid going after whistleblowers.

“They should go after the bully, not the whistleblower,” she said, adding that the police should reveal the exact procedure of checking detainees.

Kok had found the video clip at the doorstep of her office in Jalan Sepadu, Off Jalan Klang Lama last Thursday.

In Penang, DAP secretary-general Lim Guan Eng said it was unacceptable to blame the person who had filmed the act.

“The person had done no wrong. In fact, he brought justice to the Chinese national.”

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/28/nation/12712538&sec=nation :mad: :mad:

DatinLawa
28-11-2005, 10:34 AM
Anggota polis lelaki rakam gambar wanita bogel dikenal pasti
Oleh YAP LEE YING dan ABDUL RAHMAN DAUD

PETALING JAYA 27 Nov. - Seorang anggota polis lelaki di Ibu Pejabat Polis Daerah (IPD) Petaling Jaya, dikenal pasti bertanggungjawab merakamkan gambar seorang wanita bogel dan diarah ketuk-ketampi ketika ditahan di lokap pada bulan puasa lalu.

Anggota berusia 30 hingga 40-an itu telah diambil keterangannya oleh pasukan penyiasat yang diselia oleh Bukit Aman.

Ekoran itu, IPD Petaling Jaya telah menyerahkan kertas siasatan kes tersebut ke Bukit Aman malam ini, sebelum dimajukan kepada pejabat Peguam Negara untuk tindakan lanjut.

Siasatan juga mempercayai anggota itu telah menggunakan telefon bimbitnya sendiri untuk merakamkan insiden tersebut.

Sumber memberitahu, anggota polis tersebut telah disoal siasat hari ini bagi membantu siasatan.

``Dia (polis) dipercayai membuat rakaman tersebut secara tersembunyi melalui sel lokap yang mempunyai lubang tingkap kecil tanpa disedari oleh mana-mana pihak,'' katanya.

Kata sumber itu, anggota polis wanita yang terdapat dalam rakaman tersebut juga tidak mengetahui atau menyedari bahawa insiden itu dirakamkan oleh anggota lelaki terbabit.

Ini kerana, katanya, anggota polis wanita itu hanya menjalankan pemeriksaan terhadap suspek yang ditahan dengan mengarahkannya ketuk-ketampi.

Sementara itu, ahli Parlimen Seputih, Teresa Kok Suh Sim hari ini dipanggil polis berhubung isu terbabit.

Beliau yang ditemani peguamnya Sankara A. Nair, tiba di IPD Petaling Jaya pada 10.50 pagi sebelum memberi keterangan selama 30 minit.

Teresa berkata, beliau diminta memberitahu bagaimana rakaman video dalam bentuk video cakera padat (VCD) kejadian itu boleh berada dalam tangannya.

"Saya tidak pernah melihat video itu dan VCD berkenaan ditemui di pintu pejabat saya pada 24 Nov lepas," jelasnya.

Teresa menegaskan bahawa beliau tidak mengetahui siapa menghantar VCD tersebut tetapi mengetahuinya menerusi maklumat orang ramai sebelum ini.

Ketua Polis Daerah Petaling Jaya, Asisten Komisioner Mohd. Hazam Abdul Halim ketika dihubungi mengesahkan polis mengambil keterangan daripada Teresa tetapi enggan mengulas lanjut.

Khamis lalu, rakaman video seorang wanita dipercayai warga China yang bogel dan diarah ketuk-ketampi oleh anggota polis wanita, didedahkan Teresa di lobi Parlimen.

Rakaman kira-kira 30 saat itu diambil menggunakan telefon bimbit dan ditayangkan semula menggunakan komputer riba Teresa.

Ia menunjukkan seorang anggota polis wanita beruniform mengarahkan tahanan wanita tersebut melakukan ketuk-ketampi dalam keadaan bogel.

http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2005&dt=1128&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Dalam_Negeri&pg=dn_01.htm

so what is next??

orchipalar
28-11-2005, 11:00 AM
Err...Orchi believes...the 'culprit' police personnel concerned...could have 'habitually' been secretly recording scenes in the room...for quite some time already...for his own fancy or agenda...:rolleyes:

Err...it is clear that he is filming the shots thru a peep hole on a window panel from outside of the 'room'(with lockers)...ahem...one can clearly see the old style window bracket(with adjustment holes) constantly shown in the video which proves that the shots was made thru the window...:rolleyes:

Ahem...now somehow...another party could have received the video from this despicable act of the culprit police personnel...n did the right thing...to send it to the press...

That's the hero...Orchi would like to salute to...:)

JackRyan1975
28-11-2005, 11:21 AM
So our PM has apologised to the PRC. I'd say an apology should also be tendered to all Malaysian taxpayers and pledge to do away with such malpractice. What's to guarantee such strip-n-squat tactics will not be used on anyone of us detained by the police for whatever reasons?

penangkia
28-11-2005, 01:16 PM
Firstly, I think we should give praise to our PM for his guts and decency to quickly offer an apology to PRC even as the "investigations" are still underway. That is a sign of a mature diplomat and an act of genuine friendship.

As for police abuse and brutality, this is sometimes a difficult question.

Were we not happy, when the police caught a suspected notorious gang member who bulgarised and rape its victims ? Were we not elated when the next day the cops nabbed the remainding of the gang in their secret hideout ?
You don't need to be half smart to speculate what the police did to the first suspect so much so that he had to betray his "sworn brothers".

In this case ( the Chinese women) most people are furious at the police treatment of the suspects and rightly so. A clear case of police abuse and excesses.

So where do we draw the line? Legally speaking and also from the human rights point of view, no one should be subjected to any form of abuse or torture while under detention. Can we, in our hearts of hearts, sincerely support that when it involves dangerous criminal suspects. Suspects only, still deemed innocent until proven guilty and their collegues are still roaming the streets looking for the next unfortunate victim to rob and rape.
(But, police have made mistakes before and have caught the wrong first suspect.)

So far, i have not heard of any technology or method to cow a suspect to cooperate and tell all over a cup of tea. Best was to strike a deal with a small crook to nab the bigger crooks, but that is not always workable.
What other ways are there, if the cops are to nab the big bad guys in the overall interest of the public they are suppose to protect ??.. all abuse options prohibited.
I think this is the challenge cops around the world have to face in this era of human rights.

orchipalar
28-11-2005, 01:45 PM
Err...Orchi digs where you are coming from PenangKia:)...in this case...NOBODY mentioned anything relating to the Police charges or suspicions of this Chinese gal...so on what grounds of their freaking suspicions were used as a basis of the Police judgement to detain n order such 'body search' procedures...ahem...immigration issue?...prostitution?...thef?...or was the Chinese gal hurled in on suspicions of any other more serious crimes?...or was there any prior Police records on this Chinese gals? :confused:

Ahem...n should the case or grounds be less serious(Misdemeanor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misdemeanor))...why was it used as a basis to do a strip n body search...? :mad:

penangkia
28-11-2005, 02:06 PM
Err...Orchi digs where you are coming from PenangKia:)...in this case...NOBODY mentioned anything relating to the Police charges or suspicions of this Chinese gal...so on what grounds of their freaking suspicions were used as a basis of the Police judgement to detain n order such 'body search' procedures...ahem...immigration issue?...prostitution?...thef?...or was the Chinese gal hurled in on suspicions of any other more serious crimes?...or was there any prior Police records on this Chinese gals? :confused:

Ahem...n should the case or grounds be less serious(Misdemeanor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misdemeanor))...why was it used as a basis to do a strip n body search...? :mad:

Orchi,

On NO grounds should the woman ( detained, therefore a suspect of whatever without charges) be subjected to this kind of treatment...that why I say we are all furious and disgusted at the clear case of abuse. OK ?

My point was, if it had involved a serious criminal suspect, would the public be reacting in such manner. It's an open question in the end.

orchipalar
28-11-2005, 02:11 PM
My point was, if it had involved a serious criminal suspect, would the public be reacting in such manner. It's an open question in the end.Err...understood PenangKia:)...TQ
BUT...on that grounds...that freaking 'serious criminal suspect' could hang himself or rot in the Police lockup(like the goddamit ones whom had impersonated to be policemen when they raped the Chinese bizness lady)...Orchi couldn't even giva-shiit...!! :mad:

VeeJay
28-11-2005, 03:16 PM
trip search:
It's not legal, say lawyers
Aniza Damis

KUALA LUMPUR, Sun.
Stripping a woman detainee in a police lock-up and making her do ear squats in the nude may be "standard operating procedure" to the police, but is it legal?

"No," said human rights lawyers. "Where in the Lock-up Rules 1953 does it say that a body cavity search can be done?

"While the police claim that such searches are part of their standard operating procedures (SOPs), they must realise that their SOPs are not the law of the land. Any SOP has to be based on valid laws," said lawyer Amer Hamzah Arshad.

"Ear squats and body cavity searches are not written in the Lock-up Rules 1953, which govern the custody of the prisoner," said lawyer M. Puravalen.

He was commenting on the alleged case of abuse at a police lock-up, which was captured on video-phone. In that video, a woman of Chinese ethnicity was made to strip in front of a female police constable and to do ear squats.

Yesterday, Deputy Inspector-General of Police Datuk Seri Musa Hassan was reported as saying that all detainees were required to strip and be searched before being sent to the lock-up. The police could also ask detainees to do squats.

Amer Hamzah disagreed: "The mere fact that the police had conducted such searches previously as part of their SOPs does not make such searches legal, if in the first place there is no law to allow such searches."

He added that although the Police Act allowed the Inspector-General of Police to issue administrative orders which are known as "Standing Orders", they must not be contrary to the existing laws of the country.

Furthermore, he said Standing Orders had no force of law.

Amer Hamzah said the only law which allowed for a search to be conducted was in the Criminal Procedure Code, which in Section 20 says that "the police may search the body of such person and place in safe custody all articles other than the necessary apparel found on the person".

However, the law did not require detainees to be stripped naked before they could be placed in the lock-up.

Furthermore, Rule 7 of the Lock-up Rules 1953 states: "Every prisoner shall be searched on admission and all clothing and property, other than one set of clothing, shall be removed."

"The rule is silent as to whether a detainee can be subjected to a strip search or cavity search. In my view, the rule then must be read in conjunction with Section 20 of the CPC," he said.

"If the law is silent on the matter, this does not make strip searches legal. If there is any doubt in the law, the doubt is supposed to go in favour of the prisoner," Amer Hamzah said.

Both lawyers said that if strip or cavity searches were necessary, then clear and express provisions should be made, like in the Prison Regulations 2000, which spell out how searches are to be conducted in prisons.

In that regulation, the search has to be made "with due regard to decency and self-respect", and "no prisoner shall be stripped and searched in the presence of another prisoner".

However, these regulations are only applicable to prisons, not police lock-ups.

"If the police had clear laws and guidelines, then, like the Prison Regulations, they should be made public so that people would know where the line is and what the safeguards are," said Amer Hamzah.

"But if everything is so secretive, how are we to know our rights or whether they have been encroached on?"

Amer Hamzah said a person could refuse to be searched if he had not been informed of the reason for his arrest. However, the search must be warranted.

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Monday/Frontpage/20051128081400/Article/indexb_html

Wonder what the DiG would say now?! :confused:

hudson chia
28-11-2005, 04:04 PM
Ask Anwar Ibrahim when he was detained and what happen, after all he was the former Minister of Home Affairs who have the absolute power over the police.
Don't forget when you are a suspect, you have rights but what good is your rights when no one listens to you.What we saw in T.V. series does not work.
That is why they are more keen to nab the one who filmed the episode.Imagine if someone filmed the Anwar episode, what will happen? So don't get foul of the law.

kwwong99
28-11-2005, 04:37 PM
November 28, 2005 16:05 PM

PM Orders For Independent Body To Probe Lock-up Incident


SUBANG, Nov 28 (Bernama) -- Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi Monday said an independent body will be established immediately to investigate the recent case of a woman, believed to be a Chinese national, who was asked to perform `ear-squats' in the nude in a police lock-up recently.

"I have been briefed on the case and I have decided that an independent enquiry be carried out," he told reporters upon arriving from Malta at the Royal Malaysia Air Force (RMAF) Base in Subang, here.

Abdullah said the names of the individuals to sit in the proposed body had been identified and shortlisted.

"I will speak to them (the shortlisted individuals) to find out whether they are willing to be members of the body," he said.

On who would be heading the body, the Prime Minister said he was still considering it as "there are many (people) in (my) mind" at the moment.

Last week, the nation was shocked by a video clip showing a woman of Chinese descent being ordered to perform ear-squats in the nude by a policewoman in uniform.

The newspapers today reported that the police had identified and taken the statement from a policeman said to have recorded the incident on a mobile phone.

Abdullah, accompanied by Foreign Minister Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar, arrived at 10.20 am today, after attending a three-day Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in Malta which ended yesterday.

Among those who were at the air base to greet the Prime Minister were Women, Family and Community Development Minister Datuk Seri Shahrizat Abdul Jalil, Rural and Regional Development Minister Datuk Seri Abdul Aziz Shamsuddin and Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Mohd Bakri Omar.

-- BERNAMA

Pak Lah must be damn pissed off with the whole episode!

Ski
28-11-2005, 05:04 PM
The police at the moment seems more bent in capturing the camerman.

pucman
28-11-2005, 05:27 PM
Ask Anwar Ibrahim when he was detained and what happen, after all he was the former Minister of Home Affairs who have the absolute power over the police.
Don't forget when you are a suspect, you have rights but what good is your rights when no one listens to you.What we saw in T.V. series does not work.
That is why they are more keen to nab the one who filmed the episode.Imagine if someone filmed the Anwar episode, what will happen? So don't get foul of the law.


I am just wondering whether a naked strip is really necessary especially when there are modern equipment to detect metals or x-ray or whatever they use in airport nowadays. wouldn't that be a more logical matter so as not to abuse human rights ? :(

I remember somebody talking about human rights recently. So practise what you preach. :D

orchipalar
28-11-2005, 06:55 PM
Err...from what is published n posted here from the NST today...Orchi says the whole Police force has gotten it ALL wrong!!!...what a shame!...err...especially when the Deputy IGP himself had believed in n instructed with the WRONG sets of Rules n Regulations...Geez!...can you imagine the police discharging their duties n exercising rules n regulations set out for Prisons!!??? :mad:

Here The Police couldn't even charge the poor Chinese woman...n they actually ordered to Chinese woman to endure n be subjected to PRISON RULES...!!!???:mad:

Now...ahem...IF that is NOT ONE bluddy BIGGEST forkups by the Police...what is??? :confused:

GreenBug
28-11-2005, 07:01 PM
Looks like the Deputy IGP has only been known for the wrong things like the corruption-trial of Dato Seri Anwar Ibrahim and now claiming the strip and ear-squats are part of the SOPs. How come he is still where he is today? :mad:

JackRyan1975
28-11-2005, 07:10 PM
Looks like the Deputy IGP has only been known for the wrong things like the corruption-trial of Dato Seri Anwar Ibrahim and now claiming the strip and ear-squats are part of the SOPs. How come he is still where he is today? :mad:

Is Musa the acting IGP now? What happened to the real IGP? Shouldn't the IGP be doing all the talking and taking all the flak? He seems to have disappeared after his son's ramadan debacle.

pcyeoh
28-11-2005, 07:20 PM
"If the police had clear laws and guidelines, then, like the Prison Regulations, they should be made public so that people would know where the line is and what the safeguards are," said Amer Hamzah.

"But if everything is so secretive, how are we to know our rights or whether they have been encroached on?"

I suggest that we strip search the Deputy IGP what else is hidden in his arse that he has communicated wrongly to his down line. May be we should strip him and ask him to do 20 ear squats and who knows, what else will drop out. He must have thought that the China girls keep AK 47 rifles in their vaginas. I am really pissed off with that SOB's SOP.

CS Chua
28-11-2005, 07:36 PM
I think we should be more constructive here by giving the powers-up-there some ideas how to make our police force more effective. The main problem is, our police force has become too big and powerful so things need to be decentralised. I suggest:

1. Making the Special Branch a separate entity as terrorism is getting worse. We should have our own "CIA."
2. Making the narcotics department a separate entity too. Something like the USA DEA.
3. Making state governments responsible for all traffic on state roads. The police can continue traffic enforcement on federal roads. This will free more policemen for crime prevention work.
4. Disband the police field force (PFF) and assign all of them to crime prevention work. The army can take over responsibilities left behind by PFF.

With these measures, the PDRM can focus on fighting crime.

ng
28-11-2005, 07:39 PM
I suggest that we strip search the Deputy IGP what else is hidden in his arse that he has communicated wrongly to his down line. May be we should strip him and ask him to do 20 ear squats and who knows, what else will drop out. He must have thought that the China girls keep AK 47 rifles in their vaginas. I am really pissed off with that SOB's SOP.

pcyeoh, good one !

We should ask whoever advocates this type of method to go to china and receive the same treatment because they may be suspected of carrying some dangerous materials in their private parts. :mad:

tempuadua
28-11-2005, 11:37 PM
I read from some newspaper that it was another POLICEMAN who took the video picture. This is a very interesting fact. I am curious to know why did he took the photo? Could it be that he was trying to make some bucks out of it for himself, but the video clips falls into the "wrong hands" of Theresa Kok?
And this could open up another "remote" possibility that somebody in the police force could actually be supplying to the public all those video clips of this nature.

kkshi
28-11-2005, 11:46 PM
anyone managed to catch the Astro Phoenix ch32 10:30pm news?
they did an interview with teresa kok..

anyway Pak Lah please do somethign quick!
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/43713

An internal investigation into the ‘naked ear squats’ incident has found
that police personnel did not breach the law, said Deputy Internal Security
Minister Noh Omar.

“I dare to say that everything (in the case) followed the rules,” he told
reporters at Parliament House today.

"Asked to comment on the views of human rights lawyers who have described
such strip searches as illegal, Noh said those not satisfied with the
procedures are welcome to sue the police or the government.

“Let the court decide. We make the law, even laws in Parliament can be
challenged. How can you just make the statement? Sue lah the government,
you can challenge it if you think the rules are not right,” he added.


.................. :mad: :mad:

joker2107
29-11-2005, 12:16 AM
hullo, pc, b more reasonable. em ak47s aint no use sitting up vaginas. i'd rather think grenades might b more practical. pull it out n there goes u n i, instant ko.

getting back 2 ground, wats tis bout separation of powers - prosecutor, judge and executioner? wats punishment 4? whos there in among d cops whose got that seeming gawd damn powers 2 propose that a detainee has done somethin that aint no good and then personally judge and condemn that poor soul 2 some damn downright despicable degrading demeaning punishment and then personally c thru 2 d end that d sentence is executed.

hell, i must hv woken up, not just on d wrong side of my bed. my time machine's must hv been balstin at full thrust in reverse gear and its now probably 100AD.

orchipalar
29-11-2005, 03:43 PM
Get the true picture first, public advised

PETALING JAYA: The National Council of Justices of the Peace wants people to get the true picture of the ear squat incident from the authorities before passing any judgment.

Its secretary-general Datuk M. Ramalingam said the public should wait before passing judgment on the entire police force.

“In a uniformed force exceeding 100,000, there will be some rotten apples who would no doubt face the severity of the law,” he said in a statement.

The Malaysian Society for Transparency and Integrity has urged the deputy Inspector-General of Police to publicly apologise for his comments that the police would charge the person who filmed the naked Chinese woman doing ear squats.

Its president Datuk Param Cumaraswamy, describing the comments as “insensitive” and “inexcusable”, said: “This is yet another clear illustration of the prevailing mindset of the police in this country targeting whistleblowers instead of addressing the allegations.

Last week, a controversial video clip showing a woman in police uniform instructing a Chinese woman to strip and do ear squats drew public uproar over the way the woman was humiliated and treated by the authorities.

“A people-friendly police and not a force feared by the people is what Malaysians need today,” Param added.

Err...well...when "Transparency and Integrity" within the Police force...is in question with the recent spats of human rights abuses...ahem...how would the rakyat jelata be expected of having enough patience to wait n see..."The True Picture First"...:rolleyes:

More news here... (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/29/nation/12719471&sec=nation)

orchipalar
29-11-2005, 04:14 PM
Chinese ambassador: Don’t blow issue out of proportion

KUALA LUMPUR: China's Ambassador to Malaysia, Wang Chungui, has asked the Malaysian and international media, including those in China and Taiwan, to not blow out of proportion the case of a woman Chinese national forced to do ear squats in the nude in a police station.

He said the issue could be resolved amicably by the embassy and the Malaysian government.

“Cool down, solve it through diplomatic channel,” he told reporters after attending a luncheon held to introduce Gao Wenkuan as the embassy's economic and commercial counsellor.

The woman Chinese national was shown in a video clip doing ear squats in front of a policewoman in uniform.

The video, recorded with a handphone camera and distributed widely via Multimedia Messaging Service, was made public in Parliament last Thursday and the exposure caused a public outcry, prompting Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi to order an investigation.

“The Chinese government hopes this case will be solved in a fair and appropriate manner. The most important thing now is to restore the confidence of Chinese tourists in Malaysia,” Wang added.

However, he said, the case was an isolated incident which would not affect the bilateral relations between the two countries.

Err...dear Mr. Wang ChunGui(Ambassador of China to Malaysia)...True enough that THIS could be VERY ISOLATED...arising from the exposure of only ONE Vigilante's discovery...???

Ahem...how about them countless of the other Chinese women...detained or arrested by the Police or Immigration...prior to this...???

More here... (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/29/nation/12721305&sec=nation)

saml
29-11-2005, 04:27 PM
With just one statement, the DIGP has managed to instill the fear of the police in all Malaysians and all those who choose to come to Malaysia for whatever reasons. I think that at the immigration counters we should have big posters declaring the fact that in Malaysia we have laws that permits the authorities to force anyone to strip, pull their ears and squat as long as they have reasonable doubt that an offence has been committed, be it if they are trying to smuggle drugs, razors, cigars or ak47s!!. For a long time the police have not been given the respect and its high time they are given some, if not.........! Next time think before you speed, jump a traffic light, or even sell vcd!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMei
29-11-2005, 05:16 PM
pcyeoh, good one !

We should ask whoever advocates this type of method to go to china and receive the same treatment because they may be suspected of carrying some dangerous materials in their private parts. :mad:

If that situation is in suspect... why bother removing the top clothes? Why not just the pants? Anyway, does this treatment apply to males?

I read today... sorry didn't remember the link... not just chinese women in target here la.... one malaysian woman came forward to witness the same experience.

Voter
29-11-2005, 06:53 PM
Just watched CCTV4 in China. Spokesman of China Foreign Ministry came in strongly to urge Malaysian authority to severely punish those responsible for the ill-treatment of ther nationals, and that they (China) is monitoring the situation seroiusly.

I am in China. I dread the day I need to go through their Immigration and be treated the same as we have treated their citizens. As a Malaysian, I cannot hold my head high to face my Chinese friends, who, like other Chinese, surf the internet extensively. I won't even dare to log on to their sina.com and other websites. What an international shame and even more shame the Nor something came in to defend the wrongdoers like that!

ng
29-11-2005, 07:03 PM
For those who can read chinese.

http://zaobao.com.sg/special/realtime/2005/11/051129_37.html

The deputy chief says

If 'foreigners' think that malaysia is violent, they don't have to stay in malaysia. They can go back to their own country. :(

ng
29-11-2005, 07:06 PM
If that situation is in suspect... why bother removing the top clothes? Why not just the pants? Anyway, does this treatment apply to males?

I read today... sorry didn't remember the link... not just chinese women in target here la.... one malaysian woman came forward to witness the same experience.

It also applies to males but they are watched by male officers.
Unless you have female officers secretly video them, i don't think you will ever see the video. :D

Teeque
30-11-2005, 02:04 AM
http://teresakok.blogsome.com/2005/11/28/62/

Reformasi kaki abused during remand
Posted: 13:15 Nov-28-2005 In Categories: General

We held another press conference on police abuse scandal this morning.

Reformasi activisit Nora, a Muslim woman, was asked to strip in front of police woman and squat ten times at the women's police lock-up at Kapar Police Station.

She was arrested by police on 4 November 2000 while looking for a place
to set up her stall to hawk food to those attending a Keadilan-organisd
event.. Not long after she arrived, she saw Klang Municipal Council officers
arrive with FRU, police and General Operations Force Officers in tow.

She and others who were arrested were brought to the Kapar Police
Station. Nora was released on November 10 and no charges without charges being laid.

Nora has complaint to that joke named Suhakam but nothing came out
after the report. This is another incident which proves cops do not discriminate as they abuse and bullly citizens and tourists from every community

Before we have our press conference, Wan Azizah and I brought Nora to
meet with Noh Omar at the Parliament lobby.

Noh Omar was not very friendly, he asked why did the police only
mistreated Nora in that manner but not to all her other friends? Kak Wan refuted him by saying that he should not ask this question that implied Nora was doing something very wrong.

Noh Omar also questioned me about the Chinese girls who were mistreated
in the Squatgate scandal.

He said some 500,000 Chinese nationals came in as tourists and went
missing in Malaysia. He was trying to defend the abuses that are happening in the police station. When he was meeting us, the journalists and TV crew
came surrounding us, Noh Omar then told us that he prepared to answer all
our allegations in the Dewan Rakyat tomorrow if the Speaker allows my
emergency motion to be debated tomorrow.

Judge from the way he answered and his attitude which seemed a bit
unfriendly, and from the racial tone that he expressed, I was thinking
in my heart, if this is the attitude and line he is going to take, then all
the statements and efforts made by Pak Lah and the cabinet ministers that
pressurising the police will be spoilt by his statement tomorrow.

I have told the media that I welcomed the statement made by Pak Lah to
establish an independent committee to investigate the allegations by
the 4 Chinese nationals earlier, but the issue now is, it should not end
here, the Cabinet should form the independent commission that handle the
complaints and misconduct of police as a long term solution.

When i was about to end my writing on the blog, I received a call from
the Malay Mail reporter who asked me to comment on the statement made by
Noh Omar on the allegation of Nora. He said Nora can sue the government if
she is unhappy with the government.

I told the reporter that this is a very unfriendly attitude. He as the
Deputy Minister of Internal Security, he should express concern and
deal with various allegations made by members of public. His attitude is
entirely against the stand of cabinet ministers and Pak Lah himself who are
looking into the complaints seriously.

I said I appreciate the stand taken by Pak Lah on the allegations made
by the 4 Chinese nationals, when he came back from overseas, he
immediately ordered an investigation to be carried out and said no over-up over the case. This is what wanted by the people and international community, and not the attitude that shown by Noh Omar.

USJ27Resident
30-11-2005, 02:24 AM
excuse me for being cowed into submission for a while... :mad: but isn't it the truth painful for all...

see a cop in uniform... :eek: get stopped by one, and half of us here would piss in our pants; probably not knowing why...

and yet... we all yapp-away as though as we are gonna make a change for the better BY tomorrow...

the PM can say all he wants la... but by judging the manner the top cops and the internal security minister arrogant responses - nothing is gonna change anytime soon... the only thing that IS happening now, is the number of politicians SHOUTING about this and that - to gain political mileage and exposure..

Crap! :rolleyes:

oh by the way... did i mention in an earlier post (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=98705&postcount=89) about what if the girl in the video was a local... well... I guess I was right... Woman in video is local drug suspect (http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=12105)

ps. one of the positive things I get posting here is learning the value of self restraint and self censorship... or sheeeeesh... i'll be having bananas evrytime i get upset over an issue

Teeque
30-11-2005, 02:42 AM
There was never any doubt that the woman featured in the video is local, as the policewoman had spoken to her in BM. The media just couldnt report it without hard evidence. Now, as evidence starts trickling in, another 'strip - ear squat' incident and an expected Parliament debate tomorrow on this issue, lets see how 'outraged' the Malaysian lawmakers and public are...

Naruhodo
30-11-2005, 02:56 AM
But funny think is even Indon oso come here and being given MyKad.....yet some of our very own ppl here up to now still unable to become a citizen........ :confused: NIPPON PAINT TELLS IT ALL - one tone color [ Monochromatic ]... color makes it different...what color are you ? :)

layman
30-11-2005, 12:16 PM
There was never any doubt that the woman featured in the video is local, as the policewoman had spoken to her in BM. The media just couldnt report it without hard evidence. Now, as evidence starts trickling in, another 'strip - ear squat' incident and an expected Parliament debate tomorrow on this issue, lets see how 'outraged' the Malaysian lawmakers and public are...

the issue is not about nationality

its about humiliation and utter disregard of human dignity.if indeed this is a procedure within the laws of this land as alleged by our deputy IGP-a sad reflection of our record as a model among developing countries

an even shocking statement from the deputy minister of internal affairs -if we dont like the stripping and squatting 'exercise' all and sundry can leave this land!!!

is he suggesting that we dont want your money,go elsewhere??well the internet room discussion in china says it all-yes indeed we will protest with our feet

bugbear
30-11-2005, 01:39 PM
It is indeed a black eye for the government especially when we want to show to the world about our Islam hadhari way. When we accused the US of not treating their prisoner well in the Abu Ghraib and now presto we have our own Abu Ghraib. Malaysia Boleh. :D

USJ27Resident
30-11-2005, 01:55 PM
It is indeed a black eye for the government especially when we want to show to the world about our Islam hadhari way. When we accused the US of not treating their prisoner well in the Abu Ghraib and now presto we have our own Abu Ghraib. Malaysia Boleh. :D

And I always thought that the police and armed forces are answerable to the KING, PM and parliament (government!) ... looks like now the police and their ketua is snubbing everyone including the PM and Parliament. :mad:

Wei... hallo... cannot resign ka... find a scapegoat and buat kenduri korban la... wanna vomit with all the rebuttals and excuses...

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN the same - nobody on top never takes the blame for the fark-ups in POLICIES implemented... :mad: Always excuses, excuses, and more excuses... till all the hallaballoo dies down...

USJ27Resident
30-11-2005, 02:12 PM
Malay Mail... (http://www.mmail.com.my/Current_News/MM/Wednesday/Frontpage/20051130111848/Article/index_html) “If the orang asing (foreigners) think we are zalim (cruel), ask them to go back to their own country,” Deputy Internal Security Minister Datuk Noh Omar declared during a Press conference in the Parliament lobby yesterday.

Is this becoming a trend for ministers to tell people if they don't like things here... they can get the **** out of the country and go back where they ( or their ancestors came from.... ) :mad:

Seems this VIP ( VERY IRRITATED PERSON ) just gave Malaysia another black eye in full view of the local and foreign press.. :eek: :o

gtl
30-11-2005, 02:47 PM
Seems this VIP ( VERY IRRITATED PERSON ) just gave Malaysia another black eye in full view of the local and foreign press.. :eek: :o

i think he is being "Very Irresponsible Person" to say such a thing. he shd resign since he cannot take the heat........

keith
30-11-2005, 03:12 PM
He made Malaysia headline news in BBC yet again! Malaysia betul betul BOLEH!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4483840.stm

saml
30-11-2005, 04:06 PM
These asses are not used to taking heat. All these while they can just ride rough shod over anything and it will be covered up. They are caught in a very uncomfortable position whereby they are actually held accountable for what they said and that is something that is alien to them.

Teeque
30-11-2005, 07:24 PM
Oh man...I can see a Cabinet reshuffle in the very very near future for these 'VIP' asses. Pak Lah must blowing his top now. And he has to attend another world summit next mth and having a lot of world leaders breathing down his neck!

kwwong99
30-11-2005, 08:24 PM
Just heard over TV3 news that the PM has reprimanded Noh Omar over his statement on telling the foreigners to go home if they don't like Malaysia. He said that this moron's statement was inappropriate.

Looks like our PM has had enough nonsense from some clowns in his cabinet. Maybe a few heads will roll soon in his next cabinet reshuffle.

orchipalar
30-11-2005, 08:36 PM
Hmmm...they would say in much later stages...that the Chinese detanee is a local Chinese gal...n she was reportedly held on drug abuse suspicion?

Ahem...Orchi may consider the possiblity that...the current case report by the Police may be spinned n doctored also...? :rolleyes:

Err...any doubts???...of it would be as if...IT NEVER happened before in our apapunbolehland...??? :rolleyes:

kwwong99
30-11-2005, 08:48 PM
November 30, 2005 20:54 PM

Nude Ear-Squat: Noh's Remark Not Appropriate, Says PM


KUALA LUMPUR, Nov 30 (Bernama) -- The Prime Minister has described as inappropriate a remark by Deputy Internal Security Minister Datuk Noh Omar who asked foreigners to go back to their own country if they find the Malaysian police cruel.

Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi told Bernama Wednesday that Noh had touched on the government's policy on tourism which really welcomed foreigners whether to visit, study, receive medical treatment or conduct their business operation here.

"Government servants should be more sensitive and careful when issuing statements on the issue.

"I have advised Datuk Noh Omar on the matter," said the premier.

Noh was reported to have made the remark at a press conference at the Parliament lobby yesterday when asked on the video clip featuring a woman, believed to be a Chinese national, doing ear squats in the nude while in police custody.

-- BERNAMA

Our PM should not "advised" rather he should sack this moron.

kwwong99
30-11-2005, 08:54 PM
Interesting, this Noh Omar is such a recalcitrant. He is, unfortunately, still in denial mode and said that he has been misquoted???

Thus, he said all the local and most foreign newspapers have misinterpreted him, and he apologised for that??? What nonsense!

kkshi
30-11-2005, 11:05 PM
now he blamed the media misinterpreted?WTF! :mad:
DISM Mr is time for you to ear-squat 10x!!!

Teeque
01-12-2005, 02:32 AM
Surely this a$$ of a 'VIP' cant expect that the many dozens of ears and eyes at the press conference to hv heard and saw wrongly or otherwise, to hv all of them simultaneously 'misquoting or misinterpreted' him?

I'm sorry Mr Noh, but i think the general Malaysian public has just lost confidence in your ministry and the security forces under your ministry's charge to serve and protect its rakyat. If you dont like the 'heat' on you now, you can resign, get out of the Malaysian civil service, and stay the h#ll out!

gnehkgnep
01-12-2005, 10:30 AM
Woman in video clip could be a non-Chinese (http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/12/1/nation/12739977&sec=nation)

Wauuu :eek: .....like this oso can......sure or not?? :confused:

hudson chia
01-12-2005, 10:55 AM
What cannot, we always get used with everything from "semuanya o.k., to
keris welding ,to calling people kerling,to ap and to changing white to black and if you cannot take it you can go elsewhere. Fortunately, it is only a few bad apples and the majority are good.

Let us hope the new generation will be better and what has happened will be history.

pcyeoh
01-12-2005, 12:16 PM
There is a hot debate on which is the leading newspaper in Malaysia based on circulation regardless of the language, no one could answer that. Then Datuk Noh Omar came along and the reporters swarmed on him hoping to get an answer. Datuk Noh replied, "I don't know which is the leading newspaper in Malaysia but what I know since yesterday, they are all misleading."

USJ27Resident
01-12-2005, 12:23 PM
There is a hot debate on which is the leading newspaper in Malaysia based on circulation regardless of the language, no one could answer that. Then Datuk Noh Omar came along and the reporters swarmed on him hoping to get an answer. Datuk Noh replied, "I don't know which is the leading newspaper in Malaysia but what I know since yesterday, they are all misleading."

kekekekekeh! :D

FINALLY ! After all the baloney and crap he has been saying/dishing out all this while, he finally said something that actually made some sense...

Sheeeeesh! I wonder if he is trying out to be a stand up comic or what...

orchipalar
01-12-2005, 12:31 PM
There is a hot debate on which is the leading newspaper in Malaysia based on circulation regardless of the language, no one could answer that. Then Datuk Noh Omar came along and the reporters swarmed on him hoping to get an answer. Datuk Noh replied, "I don't know which is the leading newspaper in Malaysia but what I know since yesterday, they are all misleading."Err...dear PC:)...that's why Orchi says...the Press people are goons at times...though they may have constraints...why don't they ask the Dato instead to tell the whole truth...n nothing but the truth..."what the fork went down?...what are the rules on the matter?....what steps are taken to avoid any re-occurrence like this by the police?...etc...etc..." :rolleyes:

kwchang
01-12-2005, 12:36 PM
If you guys read Jeff's Screenshots, you will see that Noh's comments were recorded on TV3. No way he can deny being misquoted because whatever he said was recorded !

I think the only honourable way out for him is to resign.

orchipalar
01-12-2005, 12:43 PM
If you guys read Jeff's Screenshots, you will see that Noh's comments were recorded on TV3. No way he can deny being misquoted because whatever he said was recorded !

I think the only honourable way out for him is to resign.Err...dear Chang:)...should that be possible...Orchi ponders whether or not...there would be a better replacement...:rolleyes:

bugbear
01-12-2005, 12:48 PM
Time to go Noh. It is a Noh noh to just denied what the hold world can see.

CS Chua
01-12-2005, 01:14 PM
Mahathir had said it before and let me remind you, in case you have forgotten: "It is not our culture to resign."

So stop dreaming.

bslee
01-12-2005, 02:26 PM
Mahathir had said it before and let me remind you, in case you have forgotten: "It is not our culture to resign."

So stop dreaming.

I may tend to agree with that!..
Yep, keep sacking, keep taunting them to resign,,and what makes one think the next person is any better?..Its unlike a one arm bandit slot machine..keep pulling till you strike jackpot!

Sometime I harbor the thought of that individual who keeps harping on resignation for every mistake others do should him or herself go!..before making a fool of oneself.

saml
01-12-2005, 02:49 PM
Malaysians must be the most gullible people on earth. Every time an election comes around, they tend to forget all the bull ****e and crap that had occured and blisfully re elect the same asses and rubbish to be their representatives and they jump each time these asses make some stupid comments. It is thier own doing. You vote in an ass, what do you expect ? It will act and behave like an ass cause it is an ass!!!! As someone was saying all these new asses are making the old asses look good., especially the two wig wearing asses.

bslee
01-12-2005, 03:21 PM
Saml: You, I and 20 million others are like in a cage facing a hungry crocodile and a lion. You got a viable solution? I'm all ears... :)

saml
01-12-2005, 04:14 PM
When power is vested in the hands of a few who have time and again proven that they will abuse their powers and authority, it is time that we the rakyat take affirmative action to erode their powers so that they will think before they act or talk. If they know that they will be hauled up for their transgressions they will be more responsible. We may not see a change in government or may not even want to see a change in government but a strong message needs to be sent to those in power that they cannot whitewash the bull ****e that they have been forcing down our throats forever. There has to be a check and balance. If the government and opposition are more evenly distributed, whoever is in power will be very careful not to incur the wrath of the voters cos they can be very well voted out of power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

What we have is a situation whereby the Executive does not seem to be in control of its officers. We have ministers/deputy ministers and the deputy igp making conflicting statements, statements that do not make very much sense and which does not inspite confidence that the issue at hand is under control. The country as a whole will lose and there are many of us whose livelihood depends on tourists/investors from abroad. we are made to look like asses in front of the world and for that we have to be thankful?? Thankful that we are not driven back to our 'motherland??"

Someone has to take charge of the situation and institute damage control. Do not think for one second that all this will blow away like what will happen if this was done to a local. Even if it is proven that the person is a malaysian or an indonesia(as it is being suggested now) it is irrelevant as the government has to make a stand as to what is our government's stance on issues like this.

Ski
01-12-2005, 04:24 PM
You got a viable solution? I'm all ears... :)
Hi,
I have a solution but not sure if its viable.. get somebody intelligent and sincere from this forum to stand as an Independent in our constituency..maybe he can be our represantive and solve all our woes and problems god willing. :)

fedup
01-12-2005, 04:24 PM
hi this may not be the right forum but since it involves students , may i ask if anyone of you out there may know this. How does garden school in d'sara operates? is it a place for foreigners children or it is also open to children of the elite from M'sia? just read in jeff ooi's column about the uncaring hospital, though i sympathise with the family of the victim's family but i can't help noticing that our DPM's children is not in our Sekolah Kebangsaan but in Garden School. The victim can't even speak malay though both his parents are malay & working in the PM's dept. how strange that it's happening in Malaysia. :p :p :p :p

shali
01-12-2005, 05:11 PM
The STAR

"Police have classified the case under Section 509 of the Penal Code as insulting the modesty of a person or intruding into the privacy of a woman, which carries a fine or a jail term of up to five years or both upon conviction"

The Question:

How can the police force charge the person who took the video for 'instrusion of privacy but YET maintain an SOP that says IT IS NOT AN INVASION OF PRIVACY to stip naked that woman until all her bits open up before selected eyes at the lock up.... That's outright bloody stupid :mad:

USJ27Resident
01-12-2005, 05:15 PM
The STAR

"Police have classified the case under Section 509 of the Penal Code as insulting the modesty of a person or intruding into the privacy of a woman, which carries a fine or a jail term of up to five years or both upon conviction"

The Question:

How can the police force charge the person who took the video for 'instrusion of privacy but YET maintain an SOP that says IT IS NOT AN INVASION OF PRIVACY to strip naked that woman until all her bits open up before selected eyes at the lock up.... That's outright bloody stupid :mad:


Another classic case of saying something clever and stupid in the same breath. Reminds me of that TV series... "kids says the darnest thing!"

orchipalar
01-12-2005, 08:23 PM
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/12/1/nation/12742606&sec=nation

PETALING JAYA: A fourth Chinese national, who had been in hiding since she and three others lodged a report about being mistreated while in police custody, has come forward to give her statement.

Liu Jing, 34, and her 43-year-old Malaysian husband arrived at the district police headquarters yesterday, accompanied by Seputeh DAP deputy chairman Rickie Low Ah Kuan.

The couple spent over three hours at the police headquarters. On Tuesday, housewives Yu Xuezhen, 35, and Gu Xiuhua, 40, and student Wu Xiaohua, 34, gave their statements and re-enacted what had happened to them to the task force, headed by Deputy Supt Ten Kok Chew.

Low said the women were happy that the task force had carried out its duties professionally.

However, he said they hoped police would arrange another identification parade of the police personnel alleged to have asked for bribes from the women at a roadblock in Sungai Buloh on Nov 3.

“In an ID parade conducted earlier, the women identified four police personnel who had mistreated them during their four-day detention.

“They also want to point out those involved at the roadblock,” he told reporters waiting outside the district police headquarters.

The women were picked up separately at a roadblock in Sungai Buloh on Nov 3 on suspicion of using invalid travel documents.

Ten days later, they lodged a joint police report accusing at least six police personnel of assault, corruption and sexual harassment.

Err...for the life of Orchi...it takes 4 BRAVE Chinese national women(initially NOT many even believed them)...to come forward n lodge formal complaints against the Police's abuses of power n human rights...that ROCK THE NATION...!!!...n SHOCKED THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD...!!!

Another Independent Commission... (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/12/1/nation/12743481&sec=nation) (after the recent 'dormant' Royal Commission)...has been appointed by our PM Pak Lah to take up the task of further investigation...to ensure transparency n to come out with comprehensive reports of the MOST RECENT controversial video clip where a Chinese-looking woman was ordered to do ear squats in the nude while in police custody.

Orchi believes prior to this also...there could be other Malaysians whom may have lodged prior complaints about far worst cases of Police brutality n abuse of power...which could be reported to have possibly even led to death of detainees...whilst in the Police's or Prison's custody...

Err...does anyone knows of any outcome?...n whatever happened to those unknown numbers of cases...????????:confused:

Ahem...does anyone think...it would be wise for Orchi to suggest or ask that...whether or NOT... the government should also now...appoint the same Independent Commission to re-open the cases of ALL the prior complaints lodged against the Police force...for further investigation into MORE possible human rights abuses by the Police authority...??? :confused:

More in here... (http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2002/287/)...Here... (http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2003/458/) n...Here... (http://www.aliran.com/monthly/2003/4l.html)

Amnesty International report...2003 (http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/mys-summary-eng) n...2005... (http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/mys-summary-eng)

CS Chua
01-12-2005, 11:23 PM
Malaysians must be the most gullible people on earth. Every time an election comes around, they tend to forget all the bull ****e and crap that had occured and blisfully re elect the same asses and rubbish to be their representatives and they jump each time these asses make some stupid comments. It is thier own doing. You vote in an ass, what do you expect ? It will act and behave like an ass cause it is an ass!!!! As someone was saying all these new asses are making the old asses look good., especially the two wig wearing asses.

We must deny BN the two-third majority. Only then will they sit up and listen to the rakyat. Go for a two party system in Malaysia. I believe we are ready for it.

kwchang
02-12-2005, 01:52 AM
...in Garden School. The victim can't even speak malay though both his parents are malay & working in the PM's dept....
Just to clear things up a bit, the victim's father is posted to a Malaysian embassy in another country. It is quite normal for children of Malaysian embassy staff to be schooled in international schools overseas since there aren't any Malaysian schools. On returning, they can't continue in the Kebagsaan school for obvious reasons, hence they are allowed to be admitted to the international schools in Malaysia.

fedup
02-12-2005, 04:42 AM
Hi Kwchang, with due respect I thought all embassy staffs will be under the foreign ministry & not under PM's dept by the way is Datin Rosmah (wife of DPM) also under the foreign ministry since her children are also in Garden School? :o :p :eek:

TheEdge
02-12-2005, 09:56 AM
We must deny BN the two-third majority. Only then will they sit up and listen to the rakyat. Go for a two party system in Malaysia. I believe we are ready for it.

Hmm... From most of the post here, I could have guess it could be between a Bumi and non-Bumi party? Yugoslavia here we come...

p/s: why don't we change the title here: Police against Chinese

hudson chia
02-12-2005, 10:59 AM
I think we should refrain from racial remarks over this episode, an idependant inquiry will conducted and we must give the PM a chance.The public uproar have created international news not to our "Malaysia Truly Asia " advertisement. If read some letters from Malaysiakini , some of our malay brothers are shameful of the episode as well.
Take it this way, when I was in school 35 years back the Christian Catholic School impose strict discipline and authority that no one dares to seek redress even if abuses and rights are encroached. We have lived to accepted it as the best doctrine to educate a school children. That was the generation then when majority of our parents have 7to 8 offsprings and have to work hard to survive us let alone discipline us.

Today, if a teacher cane or slapp your child you hear of parents suing the teacher. The IT and gobal age have open a new spectrum. We can see instantly what happened in the world. So my view is that we are lucky that we can post our comments and views and pre-empt the episode. So meantime be rational and be happy and wait for the inquiry and do not post racial issues .

tupai
02-12-2005, 11:21 AM
'malaysia truly asia' campaign went down the drain...i was in bkk and this news made it big time in all international TV channels, BKK Post and a few other english & chinese papers as well...there were editorials from china, taiwan, Hkong being translated for the english & chinese speaking...yes, expats in bkk.

Maybe our friendly northern neighbour is now awaiting for the foreign fruits to fall on their ground...and we have our own nationalist saboteurs asssisting them.

yang amat Bodoh lato tupai

p/s 2 months ago, Thaksin made a major decision to pump big time $$$$ into Mandarin schools, training of mandarin teachers, incentives to learn mandarin (in Beijing U, Xiamen U etctetc...)..and us? waht we do???

orchipalar
02-12-2005, 11:46 AM
'malaysia truly asia' campaign went down the drain...i was in bkk and this news made it big time in all international TV channels, BKK Post and a few other english & chinese papers as well...there were editorials from china, taiwan, Hkong being translated for the english & chinese speaking...yes, expats in bkk.

Maybe our friendly northern neighbour is now awaiting for the foreign fruits to fall on their ground...and we have our own nationalist saboteurs asssisting them.

yang amat Bodoh lato tupai

p/s 2 months ago, Thaksin made a major decision to pump big time $$$$ into Mandarin schools, training of mandarin teachers, incentives to learn mandarin (in Beijing U, Xiamen U etctetc...)..and us? waht we do???Err...dear Tupai:)...as if Malaysia hasn't done enough on damage controls in the past freaking numbers of years...n now this sorta thingy has been happening again...n again...

Err...by the way...they have just recently included 'Mandarin'...n are now announcing it verbally...in the KLIA niah...

Ahem...nothing seen done yet ...to EVERY signs or notice boards there...OR...anywhere in the PUBLIC places...like major streets n places of interests...complexes...public transport systems...etc etc etc...

BUT NOT all is lost yet...perhaps some cronies could be working closely with the relevant 'information' ministries already as we speak...to get the 'right tenders' OUT...in time for the matter of damage controls too...???:rolleyes:

TheEdge
02-12-2005, 03:25 PM
2 months ago, Thaksin made a major decision to pump big time $$$$ into Mandarin schools, training of mandarin teachers, incentives to learn mandarin (in Beijing U, Xiamen U etctetc...)..and us? waht we do???

Thaksin is a Hakka Thai Chinese. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra) Isn't it natural for him to do that, compounded with the fact that trading with China would be easier of course.

Anyone here wonder's why his name doesn't sound very Hakka like all Hakkas that are found all over the world? And here we are bickering over the lack of Chinese schools, Garden Schools, Pondok schools etc...

Intergration is the KEY... Only then can we have a Malaysian Malaysia, a non-Bumi as a head of GLC or even a Chinese PM... But first, we have to be a Malaysian before we are a Chinese, Malay, Indian atau pun dan lain-lain...

Count your friends of other races, if it is more than the fingers that you are tapping on the keyboard in front of you, we could very well see a Malaysian Malaysia in our lifetime.

On our way to being a Yugoslavia??? I think not with these two around...

Kudos to Mr. Chia and Orchi for being very level-headed.

`

kwchang
02-12-2005, 04:01 PM
Let us not deviate from the topic of Police action and divert to race issues.

By the way, I type with 3 fingers ....
Nonetheless, thank you for reminding the rest that we ARE Malaysians.

USJ27Resident
02-12-2005, 05:42 PM
....Count your friends of other races, if it is more than the fingers that you are tapping on the keyboard in front of you, we could very well see a Malaysian Malaysia in our lifetime.....

Can I include toes as well... :p b'cause I don't have enough fingers to count my friends of other races...

Then again, I think I have it on the easy side though - what'd you expect... a Malaysian with a full chinese name, looks like a melayu ( ramadhan month blues! every year!! :o ) and can speak/understand Tamil (no kidding!! ) - I guess thats probably why I have friends from various patches of malaysia :)

Teeque
02-12-2005, 07:10 PM
Let us not deviate from the topic of Police action and divert to race issues....

Inevitably, any discussions on national interest here would wound its way down the racial lines. Its because since day 1, our gomen has found this 'divide and conquer' rule to be their 'effective' method of govt. Over the years, its not surprising that the rakyats now bears a certain 'distrust' over national issues and racial politics keeps rearing its ugly head. It will be the day we will see this issues as Malaysians, and not as a race....

silver_bird
04-12-2005, 07:41 PM
Irrespectable of the finding of Independent Inquiry, who will you approach for help if you are a victim of Police abuse :-

1. Police / Bkt Aman
2. Govt Complain Bureau
3. Michael Chong Legal Aid Centre
4. BN's MP / ADUN
5. Opposition MP / ADUN
6. MP Theresa Kok
7. Letter to PM

Thank you

layman
04-12-2005, 10:19 PM
Irrespectable of the finding of Independent Inquiry, who will you approach for help if you are a victim of Police abuse :-

1. Police / Bkt Aman
2. Govt Complain Bureau
3. Michael Chong Legal Aid Centre
4. BN's MP / ADUN
5. Opposition MP / ADUN
6. MP Theresa Kok
7. Letter to PM

Thank you


none of the above-either sue the government or vote with my feet

penangkia
05-12-2005, 06:24 PM
Irrespectable of the finding of Independent Inquiry, who will you approach for help if you are a victim of Police abuse :-

1. Police / Bkt Aman
2. Govt Complain Bureau
3. Michael Chong Legal Aid Centre
4. BN's MP / ADUN
5. Opposition MP / ADUN
6. MP Theresa Kok
7. Letter to PM

Thank you


I think it would make a difference for one to keep the telephone nos. of at least 1 lawyer ( preferably a friend) in the mobile. If need be, contact the lawyer immediately and inform him of your whereabouts the moment you suspect or feel threaten by the polis.
In the presense of a lawyer, polis behave differently...ie at least by the books. Don't wait till you are abused then only look for help...prevent it if possible.

bslee
05-12-2005, 07:07 PM
I think it would make a difference for one to keep the telephone nos. of at least 1 lawyer.

I hope to God these lawyers don't have the same ideas as the current private hospital fiasco = deposit 1st..talk later!.. :D

saml
06-12-2005, 10:51 AM
If you have done something wrong, then be prepared to face the punishment. If you have done nothing wrong then you should not give them the light of day even if they threaten you. Stand your ground. If you are stopped for speeding, all they can do is to give you a summons, unless you have killed someone along the way, they really can't do anything to you.Again if they try to be funny, they can by saying that they suspect you were on drugs or trying to smuggle razor blades in your anus and that is when they have the right to take you back to the station where you will be asked to do the world famous squat!!