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kudat
15-11-2005, 08:39 AM
Not sure how to react to the news yesterday on the 'transexual marriage'..

Not sure how friends who knew Jessie and Jeffrey would react...

How would you respond?

Ski
15-11-2005, 08:41 AM
They must be really in love to spend RM1 million for the wedding :p
I am shocked how this Church sanctioned this marriage mine wont.

mon
15-11-2005, 08:48 AM
Not sure how friends who knew Jessie and Jeffrey would react...

How would you respond?

I think they deserve each other. After all the pain and money spent on the sex-change operation on Jessie' part and countless proposals from Jeffrey, I really feel everyone should just let them be. It doesn't matter what we think. Of all ppl, their friends should be the most supportive. One thing that suprised me was the 3 pastors who solemnised the marriage..they must know this couple very well.

JackRyan1975
15-11-2005, 09:28 AM
One thing that suprised me was the 3 pastors who solemnised the marriage..they must know this couple very well.

I'm puzzled and appalled that the pastors solemnised the marriage. It goes against the grain of Christianity. I think they should check themselves before stumbling everyone.

kokomo
15-11-2005, 09:30 AM
If me not mistaken, tis couple known each other for around 8yrs or more ... and Jessie undergo operation was around 3 yrs ago .. so they must've been ermm .. gay partners already ... :confused: :eek:

cherry
15-11-2005, 09:44 AM
I am really surprise why the church would have allowed such wedding in the first place and I agree with Jack. This would create or lead to something or changes in the community. I think all the gays, transvestites and their partners would be queuing up to get married outside that church.

DatinLawa
15-11-2005, 10:04 AM
I think they deserve each other. After all the pain and money spent on the sex-change operation on Jessie' part and countless proposals from Jeffrey, I really feel everyone should just let them be.
Jessie was previously known as "Jeffrey', Joshua was the one proposed several times.

kudat
15-11-2005, 10:18 AM
Not sure how friends who knew Jessie and Jeffrey would react.

should have been... 'not sure how friends who knew Jessie as Jeffrey would react'...

unfortunately today's news is that 'marriage not legal by law since Jessie is still legally Jeffrey'....

in sight of God, surely would not be holy as well.....

morningmist
15-11-2005, 12:03 PM
By solemnising the marriage, the 3 pastors are setting a dangerous precedent...surely they know the bible well enough to prevent this from happening or do they?

I stick with NECF's stand on the issue in The Star today, the bride is still a MAN!

Ski
15-11-2005, 12:23 PM
As far as i see it the marriage wasnt solemnised at all, thats why I prefer to use the sanctioned... by a certain "Church".

Tq

morningmist
15-11-2005, 12:48 PM
Sanctioned, solemnised, what's the difference? By being present, the 3 pastors are giving the impression that they are "supporting" this couple.

newbies
15-11-2005, 12:56 PM
what is going to happen to the world today...

forget about what friends say, i pity the parents...

jasonbhlee
15-11-2005, 01:54 PM
what is going to happen to the world today...

forget about what friends say, i pity the parents...

Pity the parents? C'mon..we should full of admiration for them. Despite the fact that they would be laughed at, they have given their support to the couple. these are what parents are for....to be with the children through thick and thin. Having a 'lady' trapped within a male body is pitiful. It's not their fault. Do you know that there are many churches that sloemnised marriages for people who remarries (although their ex partners are still very much alive). We should give them a chance. I can tell you that a alrge portion of the public has full of admiration for the groom. let us not play God.

SunwayKid
15-11-2005, 02:04 PM
Knowing that this will be controversial, what do the couple hope to achieve by having the ceremony with all the fanfare, publicity and donations. It could have been done with just family and close friends, wthout all the papparazi - there is nothing to prove with this union.

isarahim
15-11-2005, 02:07 PM
It goes against the grain of Christianity.

I think this is a matter of definition. One could argue that the whole Catholic Church is going against the grain of Christianity as it was first defined by the legendary 13. And it has done so ever since it killed off all original Christians and burnt all the original gospels.

JackRyan1975
15-11-2005, 02:11 PM
I think this is a matter of definition. One could argue that the whole Catholic Church is going against the grain of Christianity as it was first defined by the legendary 13. And it has done so ever since it killed off all original Christians and burnt all the original gospels.

I'm purely interpreting the Bible in the matter of same-sex marriage, and not on any other issues relating to Christianity.

isarahim
15-11-2005, 02:11 PM
C'mon..we should full of admiration for them.

Well, I think it's quite difficult to *admire* them. But on the other hand, I totally disagree with those who claim this shouldn't be allowed by this or that religion.

If that's how they wanna live their lives, who are we to tell them?

bslee
15-11-2005, 02:14 PM
If I recall right, sometime in the mid 70's, there was an feature article in a Singapore magazine where a marriage of the same kind happened and moreover they're Malay Muslims living in S'pore. The kadi solemnized the marriage for a reason all are living in a time where current medical practice create possible for sex change and "he" has been officially regarded as a woman. One has got to go with the times.

isarahim
15-11-2005, 02:17 PM
I'm purely interpreting the Bible in the matter of same-sex marriage, and not on any other issues relating to Christianity.

That's OK. But the sexual prejudices in the Christian context were introduced with Paul which is the starting point for the Roman-Catholic variant.

Before that I think we have to go back to the verses about Sodom and Gomorrha...but those were the dark era in the old book where even incest was condoned...

JackRyan1975
15-11-2005, 02:23 PM
Before that I think we have to go back to the verses about Sodom and Gomorrha...but those were the dark era in the old book where even incest was condoned...

I beg to differ. Sodomy and group sex that happened there were abhorred by God. He sent balls of fire to decimate the city. So your definition of 'condoned' has to be clearly stated, whether it is by the society or by God.

On the issue of same-sex marriage, it has generated debate not only on what is socially acceptable, but also what is spiritually acceptable as the Christian church was implicated. It would have been on a purely social dimension should it be a civil ceremony without the participation of church officials.

pcyeoh
15-11-2005, 02:54 PM
They must be really in love to spend RM1 million for the wedding :p
I am shocked how this Church sanctioned this marriage mine wont.

I have a feeling that all this might turn out to be a charade. They know very well that their 'wedding' will not be recognised both the church and the state. The million spent can be recovered like the house and the car. Also their guests will give them ang pows. In fact there is a possibility that they may even make good money when they syndicate out their story now that all the newspapers have given them free publicity. Just wait and see.

cherry
15-11-2005, 03:22 PM
Do you know that there are many churches that sloemnised marriages for people who remarries (although their ex partners are still very much alive). We should give them a chance. I can tell you that a alrge portion of the public has full of admiration for the groom. let us not play God.

I think that question is meant for 'Jessie" aka Jeffrey because he changed what God has given him in the first place. As you claim a 'lady trapped in man's body' is just a mere excuses by scientists who don't believe God in the first place. In directly, it shows that God has made a mistake by creating him. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be together if they want to be in union they should just lay low and I strongly agree with SunwayKid.

Ski
15-11-2005, 03:31 PM
I have a feeling that all this might turn out to be a charade. They know very well that their 'wedding' will not be recognised both the church and the state. The million spent can be recovered like the house and the car. Also their guests will give them ang pows. In fact there is a possibility that they may even make good money when they syndicate out their story now that all the newspapers have given them free publicity. Just wait and see.


You have a made me wondering..why the big publicity there could be a hidden agenda.
But what i cant understand why a Church Wedding, knowing very well God does not recoginse this wedding. :confused:

bslee
15-11-2005, 03:45 PM
I'm in the opinion that one should strive for own happiness as long as it not broadly an evil or destructive. I don't see this kind of marraige as an evil. Its all to often folks here are saying God says this & that, the holy book states this & that! Well..that's man's interpretation of the scriptures!... Heck!..can't people make their own decisions if they're confident on their own happiness?.
Life is short and I've lived long enough to realize that my own wisdom or decisions are priority..and not necessarily influenced because the holy books and God sayz or laid rules for this & that!. Should I reap the whirlwind..so be it!..perhaps its current circumstances and possibly I was not intelligent enough!
In reality its survival of the fittest on most cases I wouldn't give a damn what how others like to lead THEIR lives, think or be sensitive of issues at hand.They are NOT the ones putting food on my table!. I feel that the world and governments are getting too sensitive on how one should govern their own existence on this earth.
I've had my fair share of religion and parents telling me what 100 cannot and only 1 or 2 can!..enough is enough!..

EricK
15-11-2005, 03:46 PM
this matter is between the couple and god.. if they are going down to hell for doing this then what are you people ranting on about? they are going to get their 'just deserts' right? if they want to spend the money let them lar.. not as if they rob bank...

Wolfhound
15-11-2005, 04:02 PM
:confused: Well, I really don't know what to say, but frankly, I can't understand why is it that people like to criticise things that bend away from the norm. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but ponder this.

The groom, Joshua, has accepted her, and has even proposed to her so many times. Even her family members accept her decision. So I'd say, give them a break and let them be! If they are going to be punished for this, its their choice! Its not like they're affecting other people in any way. Its their life, and their happiness. If they find that they can live happily in such a situation, then so be it! I'm sure the couple already has enough issues to settle, without people stirring up controversy wherever they go.

gtl
15-11-2005, 04:04 PM
bslee and erick, i wud agree with you. say what you want, if they go to the USA, some states wud marry them legally, eventhough you are of same sex (changed or unchanged). this thing abt right and wrong is tough to define. for a christian majority country like USA, they have accept this. maybe it is deviant behaviour but IMHO they made the choice and shd be respected.

as for the publicity, i think they have a motive, hoping the publicity will help them get recognition and acceptance by the society, govt and the church. i guess they have succeeded somewhat..........

JackRyan1975
15-11-2005, 04:10 PM
If there are people that criticise this couple, so be it. It's their own choice, their own money and their own faith.

My bone of contention, and that of a few other forummers, is on the action of the Christian Church in solemnising the marriage. Please do not paint all criticism with the same stroke of brush.

orchipalar
15-11-2005, 04:21 PM
Err...happiness?...Orchi doesn't think so...ahem...so we may just have to live a wee bit longer...while we wait n see...:o

Err...publicity?...Orchi does think so...cos the couple has been building it up for quite some time since...Jeffrey...err or shall we Jessie...has gotten the sex change done...:o

Err...legality issue?...oh come on!...we wouldn't get to live long enough to see any change in that aspect from our sorta freaking brains running the gomen...:o

Err...religious issue?...oh well...Orchi shall exercise the privilege to remain silent on this one...:)

kudat
15-11-2005, 04:35 PM
just googled 'Jessie Chung' and found this web link:

http://www.jessiechung.com/gallery.htm

.........

GreenBug
15-11-2005, 04:42 PM
Just leave them alone.... they chose it this way, its their lives.... :rolleyes:

DatinLawa
15-11-2005, 05:09 PM
http://www.jessiechung.com/index.htm

you can buy her book later, or her album...

Ski
15-11-2005, 05:13 PM
Phew!!!!He sure looks gorgeous..oops!! sorry i meant she...and hope they have a blissfull honeymoon and hope they find true happiness with each other for a very long long time.

bslee
15-11-2005, 05:14 PM
http://www.jessiechung.com/index.htm

you can buy her book later, or her album...

Great! that profits or gains from the book could hasten and finance a higher quality life elswhere, if they decide to do so!..kudos to her!..

syltel
15-11-2005, 05:24 PM
Just leave them alone.... they chose it this way, its their lives.... :rolleyes:

Yes...Who are we to point fingers and say what is deemed fit and not?Yes, this marriage goes against what is in the bible and It is purely between them and God now.Same goes to the pastors who solemnised the wedding.

DatinLawa
15-11-2005, 05:34 PM
i only pray that he truly loves "her" for who she is, and not for any other reasons...

if true love exists in them, why bother about what others think?

divorce aside, what has that piece of paper we signed done to help the happiness of our marriage?

bslee
15-11-2005, 05:46 PM
like what some of you said "Who are we to point fingers at them?".
Think about the things that will affect us people, not about whether this marriage is permitted or not.

Yeah!..who are we?...opinions not to be entirely heard or worth consideration!..
Local governance and religious authority is above all have power over life & death here!....so much for 21st century democracy!. :rolleyes:

Ski
15-11-2005, 06:06 PM
We are diverting to another topic..So far we have had a lively debate on this marriage and enough have been said and I think we should seriously leave this couple alone to enjoy their honeymoon in peace and move on.

Tq

orchipalar
15-11-2005, 10:39 PM
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Tuesday/National/NST40778120.txt/Article/indexb_html

Sex status stays in MyKad

PUTRAJAYA, Mon
The Government has no plans to amend the laws to allow change of sex status in the MyKad.

However, exceptions could be made if an applicant has been given the green light by the courts.

Home Affairs Minister Datuk Seri Azmi Khalid said existing laws also prohibited Muslims (except for medically-certified khunsa or hermaphrodites) from changing their sex status or name in their MyKad after undergoing a sex-change operation.

"It is the Government's decision that non-Muslims need not have their religion stated on their MyKad but their sex is stated, based on the records of the birth certificate.

"There has been no decision made to change that, unless the courts decide so."

To date, he said there has only been one case where a sex and name change was allowed in the MyKad, after a court ruling.

Azmi said it was up to the Parliament to amend the laws but there has been no such move towards it.

He was commenting on the "wedding party" thrown by transsexual Jessie Chung and Joshua Beh in Kuching yesterday which was attended by 800 people.

Err...even the home affair minister...is 'convinced' of the media's untiring efforts n attentions...:rolleyes:

mon
16-11-2005, 10:14 AM
Jessie was previously known as "Jeffrey', Joshua was the one proposed several times.

oops sorry, blunder..very confusing Jeffrey, Jessie & Joshua...all Js..:)

chin_wan
16-11-2005, 11:43 AM
amor vincit omnia. All you need is love. You don't need the government or the church. A marriage is about love and that's all that matters, being with the one you love, growing old together.

Why did they have such a high profile wedding? To me, a wedding is a way for me to celebrate my love for my life partner and I want to celebrate it with people that are important to me, i.e. family and friends. I want to have a celebration of my love and what best way to do that than having a grand party.

I am happy for the newly wed couple!

kwchang
16-11-2005, 02:55 PM
The discussions on HIV in this thread was moved to a new thread - "HIV ... misconceptions?"

balitan
16-11-2005, 03:28 PM
some people have extra types of hormones thus making them 'feel'
different
if one look at jessie's profile, this person has acheved much more than what
others can ....... the string of degrees etc and the contributions to
society in general
no wonder she was proposed so many times by .....
let's see the goodness in the person

wishing this couple the best ...........

JackRyan1975
17-11-2005, 09:28 AM
Jessie: Give our marriage a chance

BY LOONG MENG YEE

KLANG: Transsexual drama queen, sinful couple – these were among the taunts that Jessie Chung and her husband have had to put up with following their much publicised wedding.

Chung and her husband Joshua Beh spent nearly RM1mil on their wedding last Saturday, but since then have been holed up in their house in Kuching, biding their time until the unwanted attention caused by their union abates.

“I want nothing more than peace and quiet. I did not wish for this kind of attention. Who would?

“My marriage was supposed to be a happy occasion. It was, and I am thankful for it, but some post-marriage comments about us in the press were hurtful.

“We are especially worried about the effect these words may have on my parents, Joshua’s, and our loved ones,” said Chung yesterday.

Chung, who was born male more than 30 years ago, underwent three major operations to become a woman, having known from young that she was a woman trapped in a man’s body.

The media stories about her being “man enough to be a woman” sparked off comments and opinions about the legality of the marriage.

Chung said it was never her intention to challenge the laws of the land with her union, believed to be the first involving a man who had had a sex change.

She added that she understood the sensitivities of living in a Muslim country, and would not seek legal recourse to gain recognition for her marriage.

“My marriage is recognised by our parents. I am a woman married to a man. I have a healthy marriage. If there is any issue with God, it is the cross for Joshua and me to bear,” said Chung.

On allegations that she had courted attention by publicising her wedding, Chung said it was a Catch-22 situation.

If she had not invited the press to the wedding, the press would still have turned up to cover the event because of its unusual elements, she said.

More than anything, Chung wants a peaceful life after a turbulent journey and wishes for nothing more than some understanding from the media and society.

“Give my marriage a chance. Give me a chance,” she said.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/17/nation/12617130&sec=nation


Honestly, does this couple really want to be left alone? The hoo-ha will eventually die if they had persisted in keeping a low-profile as they said they wanted to, but they choose to invite reporters to offer more snippets into their life now as a married couple.

pcyeoh
17-11-2005, 09:44 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/pcyeoh/Thehappycouple.jpg

The Happy Couple

SunwayKid
17-11-2005, 10:01 AM
Striking while the iron is still hot - it would appear that they are just trying to milk as much publicity as they can. After all, "heshe" is an entertainer.

This union, holy or unholy, depending on from whose perspective, would be history if they have kept the low profile like JAckRyan1970 said.

DatinLawa
17-11-2005, 10:06 AM
[COLOR=Teal]
Honestly, does this couple really want to be left alone? The hoo-ha will eventually die if they had persisted in keeping a low-profile as they said they wanted to, but they choose to invite reporters to offer more snippets into their life now as a married couple.

totally agreed. yes, it has nothing to do with us about their marriage and we should leave them in "peace". but they are the one not leaving us in peace becoz they choose to "announce" to us about their marriage and thus inviting comments.

orchipalar
17-11-2005, 10:18 AM
“Give my marriage a chance. Give me a chance,” she said.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.as...7130&sec=nation

Honestly, does this couple really want to be left alone? The hoo-ha will eventually die if they had persisted in keeping a low-profile as they said they wanted to, but they choose to invite reporters to offer more snippets into their life now as a married couple.

totally agreed. yes, it has nothing to do with us about their marriage and we should leave them in "peace". but they are the one not leaving us in peace becoz they choose to "announce" to us about their marriage and thus inviting comments.
Err...in the words from a time tested n famous TV programme..."YOU ASKED FOR IT"...:D

cactuc1
17-11-2005, 02:05 PM
I think the couple is making a statement..After Years of shadowing or maybe living in doubt.Finally over.
They want to show that they are doing something that they want and desire.
I guess is they right to live and the right to earn a living and have a peacefull and joyful live...It is they way of confession to the world.

What to the Malaysia Law said about homosexual relationship ? Since technically these couple are 2 man...i know in the syariah court it unlawful..how about the Malaysia Law? ok ah?

Ski
17-11-2005, 02:38 PM
Imo they should disappear form the local eyes and media for some time and carry on life and enjoy their company as they intended and planned too.
Ques sera sera....

KelvC
17-11-2005, 04:06 PM
Whatever the verdict would be, it will create a precedent to the next event. I guess they are now facing the VOTE whether this can be an accepted norm in Malaysia.

The situation here today is similar to US last year where the country voted whether to accept this new societal norm.

The decision to go to the media would boost the success rate of this getting through.

jand
17-11-2005, 04:20 PM
one word: Harisu
:D

orchipalar
17-11-2005, 05:07 PM
one word: Harisu
:D
Err... YOU... (http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:omtTgTlshxIJ:www.cliphoto.com/social/harisuflower20-1.jpg)are such a sight for sored eyes:D

SunwayKid
17-11-2005, 05:28 PM
Err... YOU... (http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:omtTgTlshxIJ:www.cliphoto.com/social/harisuflower20-1.jpg)are such a sight for sored eyes:D

Orchi-san, 2nd image much better lah - sight for dreams... :D

orchipalar
17-11-2005, 06:25 PM
Orchi-san, 2nd image much better lah - sight for dreams... :D
Err...tell Orchi about it SunwayKid:)...Orchi had to exercise it within the limitations of censorship in this community forum...:p:D

SunwayKid
17-11-2005, 06:41 PM
Err...tell Orchi about it SunwayKid:)...Orchi had to exercise it within the limitations of censorship in this community forum...:p:D

Wah.......man in bikini also got censorship.. :D :p

sinleong
18-11-2005, 05:59 AM
I am really surprise why the church would have allowed such wedding in the first place and I agree with Jack. This would create or lead to something or changes in the community. I think all the gays, transvestites and their partners would be queuing up to get married outside that church.

this sort of comment just goes to show that:
1. religion divides
2. religion is not for the minority who are different
3. religion is not understanding...

i do not think it is GOD who defined rules.... GOD is loving.

lbn
18-11-2005, 06:16 AM
this sort of comment just goes to show that:
1. religion divides
2. religion is not for the minority who are different
3. religion is not understanding...

i do not think it is GOD who defined rules.... GOD is loving.

My friend, Man created God. What we have is the "Law of Nature". What have happened is not part of Nature. In the 1st place, I don't know their motives. Why make it so grand, so as to let the whole world knows! They should do it quietly and privately.

VeeJay
18-11-2005, 11:30 AM
KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysian authorities should seriously consider whether people have the right to describe their own gender so that no individual is denied his or her human or civil rights, said a panel comprising a doctor, a judge and an activist.

Dr Ravindran, in pointing out a medico-legal anomaly, said: “Although sex change operations and therapy for transsexuals are legal in Malaysia, there is no law that allows the sex on the identification documents of the individuals to be changed.

more here...
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/18/nation/12632415&sec=nation

kevin23
19-11-2005, 12:17 AM
who cares!!! let them b! if jessie's husband wants 2 change 2 a woman now,go ahead..i wouldnt give a damn!!

qbuster
20-11-2005, 02:21 PM
There is a bigger moral issue than just the issue of is same-sex marriage. It is about the deception of the public. Public safety and health may even be at risk.

I am an expat who visits Malaysia frequently on eco-runs with the Harriers. The wedding of a “Dr.” Jessie Chung to another man is quite an eye-opener to me, Malaysia being a conservative and traditional Asian-value country.

Curious about her million-dollar weddng and lavish spendings, I visited her web-sites, www.jessiechung.com (http://www.jessiechung.com ) and http://naturalhealthfarm.com/. Unfortunately I am unable to read most of the content nor could I understand the language spoken. However, there was one page in English, which were her credentials:

http://www.jessiechung.com/profile.htm

What immediately caught my attention was Lafayette University and her M.Sc. in Nutrition. In the US this school has been exposed as a Diploma Mill … for a few hundred dollars, you can buy a doctorate off the back of a book of matches. They grant credits based on “life experiences”, which are not verified - I could claimed to have performed research,published extensively and gain their PhD just by saying so. So could you. This school was closed down in 1992 by the FBI. There is a Lafayette COLLEGE (established in 1826 in Pennsylvania) and is accredited, but Lafayette UNIVERSITY is not and was a diploma mill. Often these fraudsters create similar sounding names. Lafayette COLLEGE - the legitimate university - only offers bachelor’s degrees (and primarily in the arts – no nutrition major nor minor).

The FBI investigation operation was code named “Dip Scam”, which was widely reported in The Economist magazine last year (http://www.economist.com/business/globalexecutive/education/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3079831) and Wired magazine 3 years ago (http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,54596,00.html), and as recently as this year was reported in the Michigan State Senate (http://www.michigan.gov/cis/0,1607,7-154-10573_11549-122672–,00.html). DipScam resulted in the discovery, exposure and closure of many diploma mills such as Lafayette University, where Jessie Chung clamed to have earned her M.Sc. in Nutrition. The closure of Lafayette University was reported in www.quackwatch.com (http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/dm0.html), which also reported on the legitimacy of American Nutritional Medical Association, which Jessie claims to have a professional membership in(http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/amna.html. Both Lafayette University and the American Nutritional Medical Association were the figment of Stephen R. Thomas’ imagination - who is now an “Archbishop” of the Romano Byzantine Orthodox Catholic Church (a new church group of his own creation, obviously to offer more bogus degrees in “christian-healing” and to scam folks for tithes).

I need to pause here: Firstly my personal objections to same-sex marriage are my own opinions. I have no issues with the couple, with Jessie Chung and certainly not with natural medicine. However, this field of alternative medicine is fraud with false credentials. I hope “DOCTOR” Jessie Chung has not held herself out as a medical practitioner … particular to those suffering from cancer who are desparate enough to try and spend anything to have a longer glimpse on life. Those monies are better spent on legitimate research (in both naturopathic medicine and western medicine) and in pain management and dignity of life.

Her website’s “credentials” seem dubious, not very credible and awfully misleading. Her degrees are questionable, as is her “professorship”. I would suggest that people consider the near impossibility of an early 30’s year old gaining all these credentials.

It takes 4 years to gain an honours bachelor (needed for graduate school), 2 years for a research-based Master (needed for doctoral work) and at least 5 years for a doctorate (most take 6 years). One would need at least 2 years in a post-doctoral program of research and teaching assistantship before one is even considered for a professorial appointment (at the Assistant Professor level). One needs a minimum of 3 years as an assistant professor, with an established research and publication track record before one qualifies for an Associate Professorship. A minimum of 5 years in this mid-career capacity before one is granted a professorship. By then, a professorship and a doctorate would have taken at least 21 years. Assuming most high school graduates are about 19, one would be likely in his early 40s to reach this career point. Jessie is 30 or 32 depending on which report you read. Do the math, and figure out how she managed to shave 10 years off, unless there are shortcuts she has taken.

“DOCTOR” Jessie Chung also claims to have degrees from or membership in:

* St.Andrew College (Doctorate in Natural Medicine) / Hawaii Oriental Medical College (B.Sc.) - an extensive search failed to yield any one of these universities. If the good “doctor” obtained degrees from these places, perhaps in the 4 to 6 years it takes to normally obtain a bachelor or a doctorate degree one would imagine she could at least remember the exact names of the universities and list them correctly. These universities (in the US) would surely have websites.

* International Therapy Examination Council (ITEC, UK) - found this place … basically accredits make-up related disciplines such as tanning, spa, facial, etc. So Jessie is a trained beautician? But they do not offer a Diploma in Nutrition.

* Beijing China Medical Institute - cannot locate this institution either. Being an old-boy of Chung Hua Chinese Middle School I can concede to a translation error from Chinese to English by Jessie.

* East West University of Holistic Health Sciences - I also cannot locate such a university. I was told that most health product sales agents are “conferred” dubious doctorates and professorships in such “health universities” to give them the creditability of a qualified health practitioner. I know of one who dropped out of high school, is (still) a coffee machine salesman, and has such a doctorate and professorship.

* Member of American Naturopathic Medical Association - for US$195 one can get a “supporting membership”

* Member of American Nutritional Medical Association - listed on the www.quackwatch.com website as a fake association and was founded by the same people that founded Lafayette University. Also closed in 1992. It was possible at one time to buy a professional membership for only US$100.

EdRoZeN
20-11-2005, 02:46 PM
There is a bigger moral issue than just the issue of is same-sex marriage. It is about the deception of the public. Public safety and health may even be at risk.

I am an expat who visits Malaysia frequently on eco-runs with the Harriers. The wedding of a “Dr.” Jessie Chung to another man is quite an eye-opener to me, Malaysia being a conservative and traditional Asian-value country.

Curious about her million-dollar weddng and lavish spendings, I visited her web-sites, www.jessiechung.com (http://www.jessiechung.com ) and http://naturalhealthfarm.com/. Unfortunately I am unable to read most of the content nor could I understand the language spoken. However, there was one page in English, which were her credentials:

http://www.jessiechung.com/profile.htm

What immediately caught my attention was Lafayette University and her M.Sc. in Nutrition. In the US this school has been exposed as a Diploma Mill … for a few hundred dollars, you can buy a doctorate off the back of a book of matches. They grant credits based on “life experiences”, which are not verified - I could claimed to have performed research,published extensively and gain their PhD just by saying so. So could you. This school was closed down in 1992 by the FBI. There is a Lafayette COLLEGE (established in 1826 in Pennsylvania) and is accredited, but Lafayette UNIVERSITY is not and was a diploma mill. Often these fraudsters create similar sounding names. Lafayette COLLEGE - the legitimate university - only offers bachelor’s degrees (and primarily in the arts – no nutrition major nor minor).

The FBI investigation operation was code named “Dip Scam”, which was widely reported in The Economist magazine last year (http://www.economist.com/business/globalexecutive/education/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3079831) and Wired magazine 3 years ago (http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,54596,00.html), and as recently as this year was reported in the Michigan State Senate (http://www.michigan.gov/cis/0,1607,7-154-10573_11549-122672–,00.html). DipScam resulted in the discovery, exposure and closure of many diploma mills such as Lafayette University, where Jessie Chung clamed to have earned her M.Sc. in Nutrition. The closure of Lafayette University was reported in www.quackwatch.com (http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/dm0.html), which also reported on the legitimacy of American Nutritional Medical Association, which Jessie claims to have a professional membership in(http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/amna.html. Both Lafayette University and the American Nutritional Medical Association were the figment of Stephen R. Thomas’ imagination - who is now an “Archbishop” of the Romano Byzantine Orthodox Catholic Church (a new church group of his own creation, obviously to offer more bogus degrees in “christian-healing” and to scam folks for tithes).

I need to pause here: Firstly my personal objections to same-sex marriage are my own opinions. I have no issues with the couple, with Jessie Chung and certainly not with natural medicine. However, this field of alternative medicine is fraud with false credentials. I hope “DOCTOR” Jessie Chung has not held herself out as a medical practitioner … particular to those suffering from cancer who are desparate enough to try and spend anything to have a longer glimpse on life. Those monies are better spent on legitimate research (in both naturopathic medicine and western medicine) and in pain management and dignity of life.

Her website’s “credentials” seem dubious, not very credible and awfully misleading. Her degrees are questionable, as is her “professorship”. I would suggest that people consider the near impossibility of an early 30’s year old gaining all these credentials.

It takes 4 years to gain an honours bachelor (needed for graduate school), 2 years for a research-based Master (needed for doctoral work) and at least 5 years for a doctorate (most take 6 years). One would need at least 2 years in a post-doctoral program of research and teaching assistantship before one is even considered for a professorial appointment (at the Assistant Professor level). One needs a minimum of 3 years as an assistant professor, with an established research and publication track record before one qualifies for an Associate Professorship. A minimum of 5 years in this mid-career capacity before one is granted a professorship. By then, a professorship and a doctorate would have taken at least 21 years. Assuming most high school graduates are about 19, one would be likely in his early 40s to reach this career point. Jessie is 30 or 32 depending on which report you read. Do the math, and figure out how she managed to shave 10 years off, unless there are shortcuts she has taken.

“DOCTOR” Jessie Chung also claims to have degrees from or membership in:

* St.Andrew College (Doctorate in Natural Medicine) / Hawaii Oriental Medical College (B.Sc.) - an extensive search failed to yield any one of these universities. If the good “doctor” obtained degrees from these places, perhaps in the 4 to 6 years it takes to normally obtain a bachelor or a doctorate degree one would imagine she could at least remember the exact names of the universities and list them correctly. These universities (in the US) would surely have websites.

* International Therapy Examination Council (ITEC, UK) - found this place … basically accredits make-up related disciplines such as tanning, spa, facial, etc. So Jessie is a trained beautician? But they do not offer a Diploma in Nutrition.

* Beijing China Medical Institute - cannot locate this institution either. Being an old-boy of Chung Hua Chinese Middle School I can concede to a translation error from Chinese to English by Jessie.

* East West University of Holistic Health Sciences - I also cannot locate such a university. I was told that most health product sales agents are “conferred” dubious doctorates and professorships in such “health universities” to give them the creditability of a qualified health practitioner. I know of one who dropped out of high school, is (still) a coffee machine salesman, and has such a doctorate and professorship.

* Member of American Naturopathic Medical Association - for US$195 one can get a “supporting membership”

* Member of American Nutritional Medical Association - listed on the www.quackwatch.com website as a fake association and was founded by the same people that founded Lafayette University. Also closed in 1992. It was possible at one time to buy a professional membership for only US$100.

Cool. That's why we said Internet Info are not always true.

Your name suits you man---> qBUSTER

Seems like Jessie Chung didn't, have any qualifications at all then?

orchipalar
20-11-2005, 07:18 PM
Err...seems to Orchi(from your IP address: Rogers Cable Inc.)...qBUSTER:)...ya could be posting from Ontario Canada(a familiar place for Orchi too:D)...welcome to Usj.com.my...the BEST community forum in this part of Malaysia...:)

* East West University of Holistic Health Sciences - I also cannot locate such a university.

Err...Orchi knows compass directions are commonly used to refer to places or establishments...such as North West Airlines etc etc...but who in heaven could figure out where East-West is...:o

Err...Orchi is also an old boy of Chung Hwa Chinese Middle School...East(as in Tung) n West(as in Ci)...ahem...combine the 2 Chinese characters together...could only mean the word..."Something" in English...:D

sly
20-11-2005, 07:53 PM
Cool. That's why we said Internet Info are not always true.

Your name suits you man---> qBUSTER

Seems like Jessie Chung didn't, have any qualifications at all then?


dear edrozen, i think it seems that jessie chung has something to hide or unclear but until it's proven and published in the paper, pls dont confuse the public. and it's kinda annoying that u quote the whole paragraph by qbuster just to add a few line of ur opinion. u can learn a few tricks from our sifu orchi how to quote a line using a link...

EdRoZeN
20-11-2005, 07:59 PM
dear edrozen, i think it seems that jessie chung has something to hide or unclear but until it's proven and published in the paper, pls dont confuse the public. and it's kinda annoying that u quote the whole paragraph by qbuster just to add a few line of ur opinion. u can learn a few tricks from our sifu orchi how to quote a line using a link...

By the way, not everything that publishes in the papers are true, mind you.

I'm just trying to find out qbuster's point, why would I want to confuse the public anyway? Like what you said, I'm just stating my opinion(ain't that what a forum is for?). I'm not trying to confuse, and I'm sure you guys will not be so confused by these my mere sentences above. Quoteing for that purpose of what he said(I'm quoteing for everything he said not towards only a particular thing like orchi did). Nevertheless, I will try to quote like orchi(he didn't use a link) for the benefit of everyone. LOL. You sounded hostile Sly. Chill out and peace :D

orchipalar
20-11-2005, 08:15 PM
* East West University of Holistic Health Sciences - I also cannot locate such a university.
The Link is now inserted... (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=97517&postcount=61):D

Err...then again...he could have meant it to be...err..."mixing alternative medicines between the East n West"...??? :confused:

EdRoZeN
20-11-2005, 09:33 PM
You didn't use link for this :D:D (http://www.usj.com.my/bulletin/upload/showpost.php?p=97551&postcount=63)

:rolleyes: :D

qbuster
21-11-2005, 03:22 AM
Seems like Jessie Chung didn't, have any qualifications at all then?

The only verifiable and legitimate credential is from ITEC, which accredits beauticians, etc.

Lafayette University is a definite bogus school, as confirmed by those sources I have listed. Some information on the Internet is reliable, some are not - one just have to tell **** from shine as the farmers say in Canada.

qbuster
21-11-2005, 03:30 AM
welcome to Usj.com.my...the BEST community forum in this part of Malaysia...:)

Orchi


Thanks for the welcome ... have never been to United Subang Jaya, and this is my first visit to your web-site (found it while trying to track down info on "Dr." Jessie Chung). I have been to most of the tourist traps in West Malaysia - like Penang, Kuala Lumpur (lived there for 6 months during my last sabbatical), Malacca, Johore. Penang has the best food IMHO, and Kuala Lumpur has the best sights. Malacca tries to be historical but most of what you have left is not quite the original. Johore was a bit chaotic and not a very friendly place. And of course I have done many eco-runs in East Malaysia .... simply the best place in the world for nature lovers!!!! Malaysia is very dear to my heart.

Sorry ... do not know "Orchi".

qbuster
21-11-2005, 03:55 AM
I have nothing against natural medicine. In fact the birth place of modern European medicine (Heilderberg, Germany) has a medical museum that prominently displayed herbal products from a historical pharmacy. Till this very day, European doctors are still trained as both allopaths (western medicine) and naturopaths (natural medicine) and they prescribe both chemical and herbal medication.

Aspirin started off as an herbal remedy until we learnt how to synthesize the product in the lab. I am facinated with herbal remedies (hence my interest in eco-runs, ecology, etc. ... I personally believe that Borneo Island contains hundreds of plants, herbs and flowers whose pharmaceutical properties are not even cateloged yet and I am most impressed with Malaysia's preservation program to protect these treasures).

I have nothing against natural medicine, nor Jessie Chung as a person. What I have serious issue is her fake credentials, and her misleading the public. When I was travelling in Asia, I had noticed a lot of Asians who earned a degree from the west and then returning to Asia to trump how much more superior they are as a result. Lots of diploma mills in the US prey on this. All of Jessie's degrees are purchased with cold cash rather than earned through actual studies. And her professionship is in a non-existent university.

That was my point.

BTW, all my allegations are backed up with external reliable references. They are not just my personal opinions but others as well. But don't take my word for it, check out the references yourself.

Cheers!!




he could have meant it to be...err..."mixing alternative medicines between the East n West"



I'm just trying to find out qbuster's point

orchipalar
21-11-2005, 09:42 AM
The only verifiable and legitimate credential is from ITEC, which accredits beauticians, etc.
Lafayette University is a definite bogus school, as confirmed by those sources I have listed. Some information on the Internet is reliable, some are not - one just have to tell **** from shine as the farmers say in Canada.
Err...Orchi could verify...err...what the Canadian farmers would say about it...coz Orchi worked the buttz-off! in Guelph(Ontario) during semester breaks...ahem...close to 3 decades ago...:)

Err...so qBUSTER:)...you were born n grew up in Malaysia...n now you(Chinese) are a Canadian resident in Ontario?:)

BTW...'Orchi' is just short of a nickname...'Orchipalar'

JackRyan1975
21-11-2005, 09:52 AM
Thanks, qbuster, for the insights into what a sham this Jessie Chung is. Quite likely she purchased all her degrees to give her legitimacy (to the less informed), throw a lavish wedding party to invite publicity, and then use her fame to sell her so-called expertise e.g. give 'professional' talks, sell products etc.

orchipalar
21-11-2005, 09:59 AM
Err...Orchi needs some parenting advice here...

Ahem...should little Orchis come telling Mommy or Daddy...that 'she' is very prrrretty...err...how is Mommy or Daddy supposed to respond...whilst knowing that 'she' is not a she...???

Err...in this particular case....would you as parents tell your Primary school going kiddies...about everything that ya know about 'her'...the whole truth...n nothing but the truth...??? :)

qbuster
21-11-2005, 10:12 AM
That would be my theory as well. However, my real issue is her fake degrees and her fake professorship. She is entitled to make a living like everyone else and sell whatever people are willing to buy. But not under fraudulent pretext.

This also happens here in North America, but the governments are more vigilant as consumers are more demanding.



Quite likely she purchased all her degrees to give her legitimacy (to the less informed), throw a lavish wedding party to invite publicity, and then use her fame to sell her so-called expertise e.g. give 'professional' talks, sell products etc.

qbuster
21-11-2005, 10:16 AM
No, I am not Malaysian although I have lived in KL, as you all call it, for 6 months during my last sabbatical; and have visited your region frequently.

There are quite a lot of Chinese here in Canada and the US, but mostly from China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Not many Malaysian expats that I am aware of.

BTW, if you are wondering why someone half the world over knows about Jessie ... simple, the news was carried by the AP newswire service. And as an academic, I am always vigilant about false credentials and degrees - and the notorious Lafayette "University" caught my attention. The rest, as they say, is history.



Err...so qBUSTER:)...you were born n grew up in Malaysia...n now you(Chinese) are a Canadian resident in Ontario?:

qbuster
21-11-2005, 10:30 AM
Tell the truth ... always work. Anything less is complicity in a lie. Won't be good lying to a kid (especially your own) ... in fact, kids are better at detecting the truth than we give them credit for.

Here is my TRUTH CAN(N)ON - The truth is a very devastating weapon.




Err...Orchi needs some parenting advice here...

VeeJay
21-11-2005, 02:07 PM
* East West University of Holistic Health Sciences - I also cannot locate such a university. I was told that most health product sales agents are “conferred” dubious doctorates and professorships in such “health universities” to give them the creditability of a qualified health practitioner. I know of one who dropped out of high school, is (still) a coffee machine salesman, and has such a doctorate and professorship.
.

Ain't sure if this is the same University, Jesse is refering to
http://www.uewm.edu/ - University of East-West Medicine.

qbuster
21-11-2005, 08:35 PM
Thank you ... this was previously investigated - along with other similarly sounding universities.

Firstly, if she has a real professorial appointment at a real university, she would have at the very least know the full and proper name of the university - and would have listed it correctly on her CV. If I worked at the University of Malaya, I would not say University of Malaysia by mistake.

Secondly, she claimed to be a "Professor" within the "department of Natural Medical". University of East-West Medicine is too small to have departments, and she is not listed on the faculty:

http://www.uewm.edu/aboutuewm/facuity.html

I still maintain that the large majority of her credentials are false.

Cheers.



Ain't sure if this is the same University, Jesse is refering to
http://www.uewm.edu/ - University of East-West Medicine.

uchangeng
21-11-2005, 09:17 PM
soon, we will see male who claims his right to be operated on so that he can open a hole somewhere in his torso, and married to another male. the opposite goes for the female, plant an erectiles somewhere convenient, may be half way up her back so that she can do the doggy.

Do the law makers consider all these? or, in their pea sized brain, they only think of simple operation of sex change?. In fact, all they cares for is popular votes. That's all, religion and moral correctness are never in their mind.

the day will come when the same sex marry each other and that spells the end of the world for the human kind!

dieseas and extinction are never a threat to human kind until the 21st century!

orchipalar
21-11-2005, 10:16 PM
Tell the truth ... always work. Anything less is complicity in a lie. Won't be good lying to a kid (especially your own) ... in fact, kids are better at detecting the truth than we give them credit for.

Here is my TRUTH CAN(N)ON - The truth is a very devastating weapon.
Err...qBUSTER:)...TQ for for your advice...BUT when asked...how do ya tell a seven year old boy...that instead a he...chose to be a 'she'...by having some kinds of operations done to his body...in his attempts to defy ALL the laws of nature...to become a 'real' woman...physically???

Err...n emotionally???...how do ya tell a 10 year old boy...that WHY?...'she' has done it...or IF he chooses too...that he could also one day...try to be as emotional...feel n live like a 'woman' instead...???

n ahem...how would ya tell your couple of 11 year old or 16 year old daughters...whether or NOT...when he becomes a 'she'...that 'she' could or NOT...be able to bear any child of 'her' own???...n how about when asked...whether or NOT...it's alright?...for any of your daughters to fall in love n be married with another 'she'...???

or err...how do ya tell...your love sicked 19 year old boy...that it would be alright?...in the eyes of GOD n all the religions or the laws known to...or practiced by mankind...that he could fall in love n marry a 'she' too...???

Oh dear...ahem...Orchi thought it is going to be tough n hard enough as it is...nurturing n bringing up 4 growing up childrens...to hopefully see the days...when they will become...someone of certain significance n substance...:o

Err...where is the freaking logical explanation or common sense to all of this...or perhaps...WE have NONE to begin with...??? :confused:

qbuster
21-11-2005, 10:48 PM
My kids are all grown up and they were all taught at a very young age that the truth is the only way to conduct one's life. As a result, we had some very difficult and embarrassing moments BUT since the truth is all we had to deal with (i.e. lies are multi-variant, the truth is more straight-forward) we managed very well. They all now lead fruitful and moral lives, and I feel that I have done my job well as a parent, and more importantly as a father (i.e. authority figure) and friend.

Yes, issues of sex and gender are difficult topics, but every family have to deal with them. You are no different ... and more importantly - you will survive. Good luck!!!

BTW, none of these gender-bender practices are acceptable to me personally. Even if Jessie wants to become an elephant through surgery, to sleep with a mouse (another Canadian farm saying) ... it is really her problem - as much as I may disagree. But as I have stated many times, my primary concern in this event with Jessie is her fake credentials.

Back to the issue of false credentials ... here's some questions:

Why wasn't her fake credentials raised earlier, perhaps by the authorities? Are people just willing to take what she claimed as face value so easily? Are there consumers' rights agencies in Malaysia?

orchipalar
22-11-2005, 02:24 AM
BTW, none of these gender-bender practices are acceptable to me personally. Even if Jessie wants to become an elephant through surgery, to sleep with a mouse (another Canadian farm saying) ... it is really her problem - as much as I may disagree. But as I have stated many times, my primary concern in this event with Jessie is her fake credentials.

Err...it's a fine line differentiating...between what's 'hers'...n what's the rest's problems...

But since...the days 'she' openly publicized 'her' sex change n recently having married a 'man' with the medias...it has been becoming...a general public knowledge for the wrong social reasons...n confusions for much of it...in contrary to...

fe·male Audio pronunciation of "female" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fml)
adj.

1. Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.
2. Characteristic of or appropriate to this sex; feminine.
3. Consisting of members of this sex. See Usage Note at Lady. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lady)

Ski
22-11-2005, 07:58 AM
Is she the only one with fake credentials, they must be many more around the globe holding top posts with fake certificates and have got away with it..any views on this? Alot have been discused on Jessie only.

Tq

qbuster
22-11-2005, 10:07 AM
Is she the only one with fake credentials, they must be many more around the globe

There are tons of cases of people with fake credentials. However that does not make it right. Most people look at it as a victimless crime, so people tend to be complacent about the whole issue.

There was a recent presentation by Prof. Goerge Gollin from the University of Illinois, who investigated how huge the diploma mills industry is, and how much it has permeated society, including the upper echelons. Here is a PowerPoint presentation of one of his findings:

http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/diploma_mills.pdf

Dr. Gollin (who is a physics professor with a real and earned Ph.D. from Princeton) demonstrated how much potential harm these fake degrees can be in the wrong hands, as some of these holders are acting as medical specialists, clinical professors of medicine, psychologists, counsellors, and are involved with the high-tech industry IN US AND UK COMPANIES. It is not victimless.

Your "Dr." Jessie Chung could actually prescribed two or three herbal medications (perhaps out of greed to sell as much products as possible, or plain ignorance since her knowledge of herbal pharmaceutics was unearned) which may have contradictory effects with each other and harm someones health. Herbal medications - due to advances in modern phamaceutical manufacturing process - can be as potent and effective as chemical medications. Herbal medications, because they are complex concoctions, may contain high concentrations of toxins as they are often consumed in a dried (and therefore concentrated) form. Those that are properly trained (unlike Jessie Chung) will ensure that these toxins are leached out of the preparation. Often resellers of bulk herbs would buy the cheapest available products without checking the sources and potencies of what they buy. Natural Health Farms, Jessie's company, is a reseller of bulk herbs which they repackage into smaller quantities to be sold at a high profit margin. What kind of pharmaceutical standards are they complying with? And at what standardized dosage should they be prescribed at if the potencies of the raw materials are unknown?? I doubt the good "doctor" knows, as no clinical trials were likely conducted since the company simply fills empty jars without any form of R+D. I know, as I did a nexus search of every possible combination of her name, her degrees, the universities and her company - and came up with nothing of clinical trial publications.

You will also note that legitimate doctors (at least in North America) never dispense their own prescriptions, and they must be filled by an independent pharmacist (who also check for contradictory medications). This is to prevent economic conflict of interest - a hallmark of a professional.

Dr. Gollin's conclusions: It is dishonest and it does matter. My conclusions: It is not just about dishonesty, it is about public safety.

qbuster
22-11-2005, 10:42 AM
Err...Orchi is also an old boy of Chung Hwa Chinese Middle School

It just occured to me that Asian schools are streamed into the Arts and the Sciences.

Do you remember which stream (Arts or Sciences) that Jeffrey/Jessie graduated from?

Ski
22-11-2005, 11:18 AM
It just occured to me that Asian schools are streamed into the Arts and the Sciences.

Do you remember which stream (Arts or Sciences) that Jeffrey/Jessie graduated from?
Hi
I see you are still around and very eager about this case and still harping on it, i dont know why? I have left this case to rest there are more important things to do dwell on rather than this isolated case.
Btw what time is at your place?
Cheerz mate.

qbuster
22-11-2005, 11:22 AM
You asked the question and I provided the answer.

It is 10:26 PM at the moment.


Btw what time is at your place?

Mason
22-11-2005, 01:05 PM
Since we are at this topic.

Wondering anyone heard of the following institutions that offer MBA and DBA? They seem to have a local rep here in P.J known as Kaselfield Education & Training Services Sdn. Bhd. (578373-M).
1. Cambridge National University based in California, USA
2. Cambridge Management Institute, U.K (www.cmiedu.org)

By the way I don't see any profile on http://www.jessiechung.com/profile.htm has it been removed.!!

qbuster
22-11-2005, 01:24 PM
Cambridge National University based in California, USA

I did a search on:
https://app.dca.ca.gov/bppve/school-search/default.htm

The BPPVE list all accredited private schools and universities in California.


This is the search result:

Effective Date: 11/16/2005
Search School Name: CAMBRIDGE NATIONAL UNIVERSITY
Institutions identified by an asterisk (*) may not have had all of their programs reviewed and approved by the Bureau due to a change in law. Effective January 1, 2004, schools that are accredited by specified regional accrediting agencies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education may offer new degree, diploma or certificate programs without further "review and investigation" by the Bureau.

No records found matching your search criteria...



Cambridge Management Institute, , U.K (www.cmiedu.org)

Same for CAMBRIDGE MANAGEMENT INSTITUTE, which claimed BPPVE "recognition" on their webpage (http://www.cmiedu.org/recog.html). Seems like their entire website is under construction!!!! Not a good sign.



By the way I don't see any profile on http://www.jessiechung.com/profile.htm has it been removed.!!
Still there ....

QUACK!!

lord
22-11-2005, 01:46 PM
My reaction to the issue of tranversites, tansgenders and everything trans has been the same since my schooling days, get a hand-grenade into their underwear and assure them it is all for the sake of family-planning, PERIOD!!!

Jessie, as far as I am concerned, was just plain itchy. You want to publicise your bloody wedding and at the same time don't want to hear ppl's comments. This is like an Indian saying, you pinch the baby and rock the craddle at the same time.

I am thankfull that our much critised gormen at least did one good thing in its lifetime, refused to acknowledge Jessie's marriage. GOOD. VERY GOOD!! You condone this and you get some more Mumtazs and Minahs coming along with their husbands out of their closets.

ANd for you folks who are lost how to refer to Jessie, it's not a HE or a SHE. Just refer to them as IT! IT slept. IT got married. IT went shopping. IT cried when IT read Lord's posting. IT ran away.

ANd for the mind readers in this forum, yeah, you got it loud and clear, I am one hundred and 99% against these ppl and GOD help me. You can cry and pity them for all that I care, I don't give a hoot!!

(ahh.. finally, got it out of my system, man... it's a wonder what this forum does to you... phew...)

qbuster
22-11-2005, 02:13 PM
Cambridge Management Institute, U.K (www.cmiedu.org)

Here is more info., from their "other" website:

http://www.csuedu.org/index.html

This is what their webpage have to say:


Cambridge Management Institute is incorporated as a non-profit educational corporation in the state of Delaware, USA to provide onsite courses at Learning Centres around the world, and study by distance learning. IT AWARDS ITS OWN DEGREES. IT DOES NOT AWARD UNITED KINGDOM DEGREES.

CAMBRIDGE MANAGEMENT INSTITUTE IS NOT ACCREDITED BY ANY ACCREDITING AGENCY RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION.

and

How to Contact Us

European Gateway
Cambridge Management Institute - Main Learning Centre
180-186 King's Cross Road
London WC1X 9DE
Tel: +44 (0) 207 689 1615
Fax: +44 (0) 207 504 3664
Email: admin@cmiedu.org

North America Gateway
Cambridge Management Institute - Center for Distance Learning
800 Delaware Avenue
Wilmington, DE19801
Email: open@cmiedu.org

Asian Gateway
Putra College - Asian Learning Centre
1-8 Menara KLH
Bandar Puchong Jaya
47100 Selangor, Malaysia
Tel: 603 8070 7480
Fax: 603 8070 7479

Mason
22-11-2005, 03:30 PM
qbuster thx. Guess they are scam too.

Lord I totally agree with you. Let me feed this topic with some scientific points to Lord's argument. We have to accept that human is creation varies drastically even though they are divided into two main sexes there could exist the so labeled trans.. and is explained well medically and their characters recognized.

This explanation may sound French! But as you read on you will understand my reasoning. As we all know, genetics play an important role in determining ones identity. Having said this, the rule of “natural selection” and “survival of the fittest” determines the composition in the vital selection process of our DNAs to create the best human being out of your parents DNAs. Even though the genetics determines the individual characteristics of a person, external factors may contribute to the changes genetically through a period of evolution.

In Jessie’s case, it’s pure a pure genetics problem known as mutation which is a slight variation within the DNA strand from the parentage DNAs. So we have to accept that he/she will face personality complex. We can’t ignore this complexity completely. Nevertheless, it’s a defect within our society or better said as a genetic defect which will be corrected naturally by our body in the absence of any external interference (environment/society or surgery). For example, a blind couple would most likely have a perfectly normal child.

Thus, like in Jessie’s case she has corrected her defects surgically; this eliminates the natural process mentioned above to take place. By correcting the human defects through external interference such as surgical, we are discouraging genetic modification and alteration to occur and correct these defects. Such simple example to prove this point is the corrective spectacles that we wear today. If you realize it has been a norm that a portion of the society would use it to correct their eye sight. If we would let the body to correct this defect over the years we would see fever amount of us require eye aids. Since it has been a practice within the society that our eye has to be corrected through instruments then we are not giving the body a chance to correct this defect and thus the body accepts these defects as normal and carries it within its DNA to the next generation. Worrying isn’t it? But we don’t have a choice as we need good eye sight in our daily life so we immediately correct it via any means. So medical advances doesn’t necessarily provide a better life.

Now, looking at Jessie’s, if we correct it surgically then the chances are these sought of defects will forever be within our society as our gene pool is getting defected and reducing the selection process. Recognizing their existence within the society is an external environmental factor that eliminates natural correction to occur . The best way to deal with such society defects is letting the rule of natural selection and survival of the fittest to take place in determining the next best human being to be created with the help of pressure from the society to object such existence within the society. The remark sounds cruel but if were we to maintain the existence of male and female as the only sexes and not wanting any new trans.. birth then this is the only choice.

An example of society failure in playing an important role in correcting the defects within our human society is the gay phenomenon which is now recognized as a community by our society. If this is to go on the desire to be intimate with the same (homo) sex will be as common as the opposite (hetero). Recognizing them in our community is an environmental factor that encourages this unnatural desire (defect) of human to exist and not providing the avenue for correction to occur. The society will be in the losing end if in the selection of human existence, emotions and sentiments were considered.

In the basic rule of evolution the weakest species will be extinct. We should not break this rule which determines our survival. Imagine a man-man world or a woman-woman world.!!

Nic_of_Time
22-11-2005, 06:29 PM
Now, looking at Jessie’s, if we correct it surgically then the chances are these sought of defects will forever be within our society as our gene pool is getting defected and reducing the selection process.

I don't think Jessie will be contributing to the gene pool as 'she' will not have any reproductive capabilities, i.e. eggs, to contaminate humanity. Unless some maniac decide to clone her for eternity.

Nature never operate on a purely black or white basis. One fundamental principle of nature is that, every of it's variable is in a continuum. Most of nature's variables are normally distributed (note Bell Curve) with some skewed exceptions. I have not come across any variables that are perfectly distributed on a 50-50 basis. There is always shades of grey.

Let's take the 6+ billions of human on earth and try to divide them in terms of male or female. For a start, we will encounter a problem with hermaphrodites. Even with counting chromosomes it will be difficult to differentiate them physically and mentally.

For the rest, we could differentiate them physically in terms of male or female. But, we will not have a 100% male per_se. Every male or female is a composition of the male-female sex in degrees. We therefore have those who are 100% physical males but in terms of other variables ranges from "99% male-1% female" males to "1% male -99% female" males. These other variables are level of testosterone, mental brain circuitry(leading to emotional states), chromosomes, etc.

Why the variations? Every human is born female first and the DNA programmed the changes to male or female as the fetus grows. Due to various reasons, defects occur.

In addition, the maleness or femaleness in each human will change with age as the hormone levels changes.


Variations fortunately occurs in only a small percentage. Out of 6+ billions, how many are gays, tranvestites or hermaphrodites of varying degrees. 60 millions is only 1% of the population. 300 millions is 5%.

Jessie is significantly male in the physical sense but probably is a "10% male-95% female" male in terms of other sex variables. From the principle of continuum in nature, such occurence is expected to occur, and we should have some empathy for him/her. It is only natural that he/she will manifest the mental and emotional states of a female and that would include wanting to marry, perhaps maternity instincts. etc..

Whether society will accept the exceptions of his/her kind and their expectations will depend the evolutionary forces of society. Once upon a time, physically deformed babies were probably fed to the dogs, mental unstable humans were banished, cannibalism & slavery was the norm. But our current societies have been accomodating over these issues since.

Taking into account the best nature can offer as above, I am not too bothered about what Jessie is doing. Maybe, i feel that his/her actions are no threat to humanity (small %) and that we should evolve towards being more compassionate to ensure the specie is preserved by the majority.

orchipalar
22-11-2005, 08:49 PM
Err...here is how Orchi tries to deduce the sex change issue...by first looking up for some reading materials available from the internet...who knows?...perhaps the answer(s) may lies within...HERE... (http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0411/articles/mchugh.htm)

Ahem...as per whether the article is credible or not...perhaps qBUSTER:)...may wanna add a comment or 2 about the Writer of the Article about...err...Surgical Sex Change...(Paul McHugh is University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University.)... TQ

Err...then after reading it...perhaps each of you could come to some of your own conclusions... :)

DatinLawa
23-11-2005, 10:21 AM
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2005&dt=1123&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Muka_Hadapan&pg=mh_01.htm

Kecelaruan seks serius -- Lelaki mahu jadi wanita banyak berlaku di asrama sekolah, IPT
Oleh: ABDUL MUIN SAPIDIN dan RUBIAH NORDIN

PETALING JAYA 22 Nov. - Masalah kecelaruan seks - fenomena mahu menjadi perempuan - didapati semakin serius berlaku di kalangan pelajar lelaki khususnya yang tinggal di asrama sekolah dan institusi pengajian tinggi (IPT).

Kajian Institut Kajian Liberal, Universiti Tenaga Nasional (Uniten) di beberapa sekolah berasrama dan IPT sekitar Lembah Klang mendapati, bilangan kumpulan tersebut semakin bertambah seiring perkembangan manusia.

Analisis data hasil kajian itu mendapati, terdapat lima hingga 10 peratus golongan homoseksual wujud di sekolah dan IPT - rata-ratanya beragama Islam.

Ketua pasukan kajian itu, Mohd. Ariff Ahmad Tarmizi menegaskan, walaupun perangkaan itu agak sedikit bilangannya, tetapi jumlahnya semakin bertambah saban hari dan ia berlaku hampir di semua sekolah berasrama dan IPT.

``Kebanjiran laman web khas dan kelab-kelab gay di Internet telah mendorong `pembiakan' ahli-ahli golongan tersebut dan membolehkan mereka berinteraksi dan melakukan aktiviti songsang mereka.

``Golongan ini juga semakin berani mewujudkan kumpulan-kumpulan sendiri dan menonjolkan diri dalam program-program di universiti,'' katanya ketika diminta mengulas hasil kajian tersebut yang dibentangkan pada Persidangan Antarabangsa Dunia Dalam Wacana: Representasi Realiti anjuran Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM) di sini hari ini.

Menurut beliau, kajian tersebut menekankan persoalan tabiat yang dicerakinkan kepada penyilangan tiga dimensi iaitu ilmu, kemahiran dan keinginan.

``Misalnya, kebiasaan menonton video lucah yang menampilkan pelbagai adegan termasuk seks songsang, seseorang itu akan memperoleh ilmu atau pemahaman baru kemudian diterjemah dengan kemahiran yang akhirnya menimbulkan keinginan.

``Prinsipnya mudah, apabila seseorang membentuk tabiat diri sama ada baik atau buruk, mereka pasti akan melalui proses ketiga-tiga dimensi tersebut,'' jelasnya.

Hasil kajian bertajuk Fenomena Kecelaruan Seks Pelajar Lelaki dan Masyarakat Masa kini: Kajian Kes Bekas Pelajar Asrama dan IPT itu menggariskan, gaya hidup songsang itu juga didorong oleh faktor:

* Kebebasan melayari laman web atau video lucah sejak kecil termasuk dalam makmal komputer sekolah.

* Memenuhi keinginan mencari kumpulan atau `pasangan' sejiwa bagi memenuhi rasa sunyi atau mengisi kekosongan jiwa yang bermasalah.

* `Pembiakan' kecelaruan seksual oleh mangsa kepada rakan-rakan sebaya sama ada di sekolah atau di universiti.

* Prasarana hiburan tidak terbatas yang memberi ruang kepada percambahan tingkah laku songsang.

* Masalah ikatan kekeluargaan yang lemah, terbiar dan didikan agama yang longgar.

``Dalam isu kekeluargaan misalnya, keluarga sekarang terlalu menekankan penjagaan anak perempuan sehingga mengabaikan anak lelaki, kononnya mereka boleh jaga diri, prinsip ini mesti diubah,'' jelasnya.

Mohd. Ariff yang juga perunding psikologi berkata, pengukuran yang dibuat dalam kajian tersebut dibuat melalui analisis secara pemerhatian, penggunaan data dan juga perangkaan yang dibuat secara umum persampelannya.

Selain itu katanya, hasil kajian diperoleh melalui pemerhatian dan rekod perbualan kes-kes tertentu bagi pelajar atau bekas pelajar yang terlibat secara langsung dan tidak langsung.

``Pendekatan dalam isu ini mudah, golongan ini dikatakan tidak normal, jadi kecelaruan seks ini lebih menjurus seksual yang tidak normal dan mempengaruhi nilai-nilai manusia itu sendiri.

Mohd. Arif turut menampilkan empat kajian kes untuk mengukuhkan kajian tersebut iaitu:

Kajian Kes 1

Seramai 15 daripada 18 pelajar asrama yang dipilih secara rambang mengakui pernah atau menjadi kebiasaan melayari laman web lucah termasuk di makmal komputer sekolah.

Lima daripada mereka mengaku menonton cakera padat lucah sejak berumur 10 tahun.

Kajian Kes 2

Pendedahan bekas pelajar asrama yang kini menuntut di IPT `meluaskan' pengaruh dengan mencari rakan-rakan yang mempunyai jiwa yang sama melalui program-program universiti seperti aktiviti mentor atau abang angkat.

Kajian Kes 3

Bekas pelajar asrama mengembangkan lagi pengalaman sebaik sahaja menuntut di IPT melalui prasarana di sekitar Lembah Klang yang menjanjikan aktiviti sosial secara berleluasa tanpa sekatan.

Kajian Kes 4

Pelajar yang mengalami masalah keluarga, terbiar, didikan agama yang cetek sehingga memilih permulaan tabiat berhibur yang negatif bagi mengisi kekosongan jiwa yang bermasalah.

It has seriously become a social problem...

kudat
23-11-2005, 11:26 AM
In talking to friends who graduated from school with Asrama Penuh, I am not exactly suprised by the social malice that is just showing up now.

Talked to one prominent Dato once who studied at a rather prominent Malay College up north, and he said even in the 60s' 'abang angkat' and the likes were the norm.....

With internet and what not, the social probelm will only escalate...

qbuster
23-11-2005, 12:30 PM
Is there such a thing as an online Malaysian/Indonesian-English translator?

Need help with translating the last post.

qbuster
23-11-2005, 12:35 PM
John Hopkins University has one of the premiere medical schools in the US.


Paul McHugh is University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University

However I do not have any comments to make about why people become gay or wish to change their gender. All I can offer is I have my own theory (I do not think it is genetically coded) and I disagree with that kind of deviant lifestyle (I attribute this to a promiscious lifestyle).

VeeJay
23-11-2005, 01:53 PM
Is there such a thing as an online Malaysian/Indonesian-English translator?

Need help with translating the last post.

You could try it either here http://dictionary.bhanot.net/
or
http://www.toggletext.com/kataku_trial.php

I must warn you that when you translate phrases online...it may sound funny :D :D

orchipalar
23-11-2005, 03:53 PM
Err...found more materials to read...

"the Vatican pronounced in 2000 that transsexualism "does not exist" - claiming that it is a form of insanity instead....More HERE... (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/CatholicTSDecision.html)n HERE... (http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=599) :)

Ski
23-11-2005, 03:58 PM
So much to read ah!l chukup lah sangat boringlah.. can get all on internet lah.

Thanks all for your explicit detailed information on these "beings."

lord
23-11-2005, 05:26 PM
I believe in my religion when it says human beings were created in the image of GOD himself. And GOD is flawless. And for this simple reason, I look at people, whether normal or challenged physically or mentally, fat or short, black or white as beautiful things created in HIS own image. This lesson goes for my kids as well. And I try my best to remind myself of this everyday.

So, GOD, for the life of a curry-cooking monkey, couldn't have possibly made a mistake. HE can't. Just couldn't have. HE is flawless. If you are a believer of any particular religion and condone sex change, you are indirectly saying that GOD has made a mistake. And HE is not perfect as what your religion claims HIM to be.

It makes me sick to the core to read stories on transversites. Worrying still is the fact that when our children grow up, will they also be arguing on matters like these. If my son was to walk up to me when he is in his 20's and says that he wants a sex change and points to a man who wants to marry him, I'll shoot my son first and then the other guy!!

Don't mess around with mother nature. Everything was created and put in place for a purpose, not by chance!!

Nic_of_Time
24-11-2005, 01:54 PM
Great stuffs Orchi, especially the inside links on alternative views. Since we are endowed with a learning brain I am inclined towards knowledge and wide-ranging opposing views. With our critical thinking faculties, we should not be too clingy or dogmatic on certain fixed views.
However i do respect others who want to be dogmatic if they must or have to, but not to the extend of fundamentalistic terrorism in killing the innocents.

Whilst the Vatican is entitled to their own views for their own reasons, i am glad to learn of the following alternative views..


Misguided by Money's theories for many decades, the medical profession has caused the irreversible physical maiming of thousands upon thousands of intersex babies. For compelling insights into the traumatic life experiences of an intersex person who was surgically "corrected" at birth, and who grew up without ever being told what had been done, see the recent interview of Cheryl Chase in Between the Lines: coming to terms with children born intersexed, by Victoria Tilney McDonough.

The theory that gender identity is socially constructed is finally shattered:
The breakaway from John Money's paradigm escalated rapidly after the scientific community learned that Money had suppressed for many years clear evidence that his theories were wrong. The final straw was the highly publicized case of "John/Joan", presented in the book As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl, by John Colapinto.

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html#anchor107763


We human beings are also given the capacity to exercise compassion and we should apply it whenever, especially in controversial issues, to reach a win-win situation for all.

JackRyan1975
24-11-2005, 02:57 PM
So, GOD, for the life of a curry-cooking monkey, couldn't have possibly made a mistake. HE can't. Just couldn't have. HE is flawless. If you are a believer of any particular religion and condone sex change, you are indirectly saying that GOD has made a mistake. And HE is not perfect as what your religion claims HIM to be.

Whilst I agree with your opinion at face value, I am somehow trying to reconcile the possibility that being a man trapped in a woman's body (and vice versa) is another form of sickness that should be treated medically. Something like being born with cleft lip or hole-in-heart that requires surgical procedures, which I'm sure is not against any decent religion. Should surgery on the nether region be viewed differently?

orchipalar
24-11-2005, 03:36 PM
We human beings are also given the capacity to exercise compassion and we should apply it whenever, especially in controversial issues, to reach a win-win situation for all.
Err...dear Nic_of_Time:)...Orchi agrees with the above...n would like to stress that...while Jessie should be left on her or his own...to deal with the life that she or he chooses...but somehow Orchi feels she or he should do it diligently...especially when the laws of this nation wouldn't recognize hers or his sex change n marriage...irrespective of what interpretations that the various religions may have about the same issues...

Err...Orchi also believes that while she or he is 'free' to do what she or he feels right about great many things...ahem...she or he should exercise n or at the least try...to uphold hers or his moral obligations n duties...err...appropriately whilst in the co-existence with the greater society that everybody lives in...

Ahem...for one posibility...should the allegations that she or he is using false credentials...in hers or his 'professions' to 'misleading' the general public...were to be discovered to be true...err...then Orchi would strongly suggest that...the offending issue should be made known to the general public to safeguard the interests of which...from further aggravations of any 'unwanting' situations...n falling further preys to her 'unprofessional' practices...if any:o

qbuster
25-11-2005, 08:49 AM
Too funny ... those are not allegations, but statement of facts.

She openly posted those "credentials", and other reliable sources have confirmed that the degrees and membership she claimed are worth less than the paper they were printed on.

Is there like an official government authority in Malaysia like the Fake Credentials Bureau (Surat Kepercayaan Palsu Biro ... how's my Malaysian??) at the Ministry of Education that I am unaware of, that declares what is fake and what's real?? It always amazes me how reliant Asians are on their governments for their own thoughts and opinions.



should the allegations that she or he is using false credentials...








First snow flake of the season is here!! Let it snow, let it snow!!!

orchipalar
25-11-2005, 03:21 PM
Too funny ... those are not allegations, but statement of facts.

She openly posted those "credentials", and other reliable sources have confirmed that the degrees and membership she claimed are worth less than the paper they were printed on.

Is there like an official government authority in Malaysia like the Fake Credentials Bureau (Surat Kepercayaan Palsu Biro ... how's my Malaysian??) at the Ministry of Education that I am unaware of, that declares what is fake and what's real?? It always amazes me how reliant Asians are on their governments for their own thoughts and opinions.

First snow flake of the season is here!! Let it snow, let it snow!!!
Err...qBUSTER:)...with hard facts n concrete evidences...perhaps you may wanna contact...The Public Service n Complaint Bureau of MCA(the Malaysian Chinese Association)... (http://www.mca.org.my/contact/enquiry.asp) please do the right thing:)

qbuster
26-11-2005, 11:47 AM
.... done.


The Public Service n Complaint Bureau of MCA(the Malaysian Chinese Association)

.... but it requires a Malaysian ID and I am not a citizen. Doubt anything will be acted upon since I am a foreigner.

I had also alerted some of your media outlets, but nothing was reported on. I was told the media is government controlled and nothing contraversial gets reported and Jessie is seen as a local success story because of her company Natural Health Farm.

Incidentally, I have visited Natural Health Farm's website, and all that NHF is is a reseller/repackager of unverified/uncertified bulk herbs and supplements, and a retailer of a Japanese line of herbal supplements made by Akira Sun-O Group of Companies. NHF is not exactly a research-based company ... despite the "doctorate" and "professorship".

orchipalar
26-11-2005, 01:05 PM
Err...qBUSTER:)...Orchi heard that...then what ya may need to do next...would be to lodge a formal complaint with...FOMCA...here (http://www.fomca.org.my/complaint.htm)...they are the Federation of Malaysian Consumers Associations...

Good Luck :)

orchipalar
26-11-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally quoted by qBUSTER:.... but it requires a Malaysian ID and I am not a citizen. Doubt anything will be acted upon since I am a foreigner.
Err...when it involves n relates to matters about Malaysian chinese...they could have a go at it...especially when it involves the chinese consumers as well...but remember to continue writing to them...n this time address your complaints to the head of public service and complaint bureau of MCA...DATO' Michael Chong(Dato' being a highly regarded title bestowed upon him)...

IF ya google his name...ya might find him to be a very popular person in Malaysia... :)

sinleong
26-11-2005, 10:29 PM
My friend, Man created God. What we have is the "Law of Nature". What have happened is not part of Nature. In the 1st place, I don't know their motives. Why make it so grand, so as to let the whole world knows! They should do it quietly and privately.

Who wrote this "law of Nature"? Is your "Law of Nature" the same as their "law of Nature"? Who is going to enforce this so called "law of Nature" of yours? What is wrong with the couple celebrating their wedding with a grand do? When you got married don't you have the right to celebrate it in any way you wanted? Do they have less rights than you as human beings? Just because they don't abide by your "Law"?

sinleong
26-11-2005, 10:33 PM
Don't mess around with mother nature. Everything was created and put in place for a purpose, not by chance!!


are you also suggesting that we should not try to treat children who are born with defects because YOUR GOD CREATED them with that special purpose?

Ski
28-11-2005, 02:32 PM
Hi
A few nights ago my wife and i had a memorable encounter with a transexual in an perfume outlet at Sogo.
If it wasnt for his voice he would have passed out as the most beautuful girl I ever set my eyes on.
He was gentle, patient, delicate and not pushy in the way he was promoting his perfume.
I wished I could have taken him home...just joking lah. :)

Its so sad that nature can be so unkind to some.

Tq

DatinLawa
28-11-2005, 05:16 PM
sometimes i am amazed how emotional people can get and how they get confused over different issues. there are 2 different issue here:
1) the transexual marriage
2) the fake credentials

don't get them mixed up! your special emotional empathy towards the transexual doesnt make the "faking of credentials" right! do you mean it's ok to fake your credentials because others are being "unkind" to you? do you condone to such act? does it mean it's ok if they kill someone too?

like i have also mentioned earlier, they had such a "grand" wedding and extended invitations to reporters, thus they loved publicity and are also inviting comments. They have the right to have a grand wedding and everyone who read the news too has the right to comment on it.

sinleong
28-11-2005, 06:56 PM
sometimes i am amazed how emotional people can get and how they get confused over different issues. there are 2 different issue here:
1) the transexual marriage
2) the fake credentials

don't get them mixed up! your special emotional empathy towards the transexual doesnt make the "faking of credentials" right! do you mean it's ok to fake your credentials because others are being "unkind" to you? do you condone to such act? does it mean it's ok if they kill someone too?

like i have also mentioned earlier, they had such a "grand" wedding and extended invitations to reporters, thus they loved publicity and are also inviting comments. They have the right to have a grand wedding and everyone who read the news too has the right to comment on it.

1) since when did i argue on whether the issue of faking credentials is right or wrong? this issue is irrelevant because we have been discussing about the morality of transexuals getting married, not about faking credentials - see the postings by lbn and lord about this matter

2) i agree with you that you have the right to comment on it. and you have agreed with me that they have the right to hold a grand wedding. so case closed.

syltel
28-11-2005, 07:36 PM
Speaking of transexuals, The other day when I was at carrefour, I saw (from the back) two tall ladies in tight fitting jeans and one of them had this incredible long silky black hair...I was mesmerised.....thinking geez, how did she manage to have that beautiful long black shiny sunsilk kind of hair...I conjured up an image of beautiful models, since they were tall...mind you, I was still trailing them from behind.Then I lost sight of them...as I was about to leave, I saw one of them again infront of me...and I thought...hmmmmm she is actually a he...then, I saw the other one with the prize winning hair.... :eek: I almost dropped my basket!! "She" had on this white really transparent (net or lace like) fitting tee-shirt on....without any bra!!!!!!!Though "she" had a short jacket on but still, the way "she "had it on, "her" chest was visible for all to see clearly. And "she" had these humongous "boobies" that would put pamela Anderson to shame!!! Alamak!!! My eyes almost popped out and rolled onto the floor!!!!!!

orchipalar
28-11-2005, 09:12 PM
Err...is keeping long hair...wearing 'see thru' low cut tops...tight jeans...NOT wearing a bra...having silicon or breast implants...or taking estrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen) shots...etc be construed...as being transexuals...? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual) or transgenders...? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender) or transvestite...? (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Transvestite) :o

transexual

n 1: a person who has undergone a sex change operation [syn: transsexual] 2: a person whose sexual identification is entirely with the opposite sex [syn: transsexual]

http://dictionary.reference.com/

qbuster
08-12-2005, 08:15 AM
I first found out about "DR" Jessie Chung through an AP newswire and then subsequently on a blog at this URL: http://blog.kuchingfest.com/

I posted the same posts about "Dr" Chung's questionable credentials on that blog as I did over here. The blog owner "Pierce" immediately came to her defence and immediately attacked me, and then claimed that I am a local pretending to be someone else through a proxy IP ... apparently to discredit me.

In his latest post today ... he called me a name "Tom Yam" (whatever it means, but I am sure it is derogatory):


Who upset Dr Jessie?
December 7th, 2005 by pierce
While having buffet lunch with Jireh Seow, Martin Yeo, his son Kevin and not to forget, my wife, I got a call from Dr. Jessie who sounded distressed (should be angry, dishearted and "TOM YAM" boiling in the brain). However, the news is about this diploma mills issue.

Anyway, got to know that may be some times people think that she is being trying to deceif them (not), but I could only say, "nay"! The Dr. is doing what she is supposed to do, that is healing (fact of life, function of Doctor is not to make money, their function is to heal). May be for those like TOM (from now on, I think I will start calling him Tom yam) and the rest that is stressing up the Dr., I could only say this, "Come face to face, (Even Video Conferencing can be arranged) and put everything on the table. Let everything out so that it is not just the mindful thoughts of one person on one party but the mutual recognition of each other to resolve the problem on this issue on quacks claimed.

One point of thoughts, maybe it is true that Lafayette Uni is a mill, could it be that the Dr. is a victim and not an accomplice? I would think that the Some outfit which major line of business is products certifications may have some training centre (I know because I used to study in one) but they are not qualify to issue diplomas. However, these outfit does conduct the courses as perscribed and needed for the certification. Now come the part on the big word "CERTIFICATION". Since their main line of business is just training, they may not be qualified for the cerification process. Hence the affiliations comes in; and in good faith, some may ended up affiliating with a mill instead of a real school. They may pretend to be running legit school but come to the end, they are actually a beast in disguise.

Well, some news on Dr. Jessie Chung, coming up will be her autobio which she is now concentrating now. Though I have yet to met up with her since the wedding. For Tom, this will be like listening through the mouth of the tiger. For the others, this is the story of a person, from a life time worth of experiences, since conception, through the pounding, the twisting, the boiling, the pain, the pine, the ups and downs, the flying and the crying, the shaping and transformations, the rightful findings, the pick it up and the letting go of the the whole deal in the life of a being, born as Jeffrey Chung and consumate as Mrs Joshua Ma nee Dr. Jessie Chung, a fairy tale in the making and a story of Dr. who has touched the well being of many and improved the quality of life for many more.

Now listen to a song I hope the Dr. will like.




Initially Pierce claimed that every degree earned by "Dr" Chung is legitimate. Now he is offering the defence that "Dr" Chung was a victim of a diploma mill, in his words a victim and not an accomplice. Unfortunately, that argument that does not hold up. Having spent a sabbatical at one of your country's universities, I am certain that most Malaysians are aware that in order to earn a degree, one most attend classes, complete all the assignments and undertake a battery of tests and exams before one is granted a degree. And this is accomplished through a sustained period over 2 to 5 years depending on the degree.

I am certain that Malaysian society would understand that if one pays a large amount of money and can receive a degree in a very short period of time (measured in weeks), the value of that degree is questionable. Particularly one that does not have a campus or faculty. More like a willing accomplice than a victim, don't you think??

Is that a fair assumption to make?

chrisbachang
08-12-2005, 08:22 AM
Enough is enough. What is your beef? Are you on a personal crusade? It is beginning to sound like a broken record.

qbuster
08-12-2005, 08:35 AM
Whatever happened to freedom of speech and opinions??


Enough is enough. What is your beef? Are you on a personal crusade? It is beginning to sound like a broken record.

My beef is false credentials. And yes, it is a personal crusade. I am surprised you have not noticed. People who falsify credentials do not like the limelight, and wish that things will go unnoticed.

Records? Don't play it if you do not want to hear it.

Why are people so rude here?? As we often say here, who pissed on your cornflakes this morning??

chrisbachang
08-12-2005, 12:10 PM
It is a very thin line between making a statement on 'false' credentials and carrying on a personal vendetta against a person under the disguise of pursuing a noble cause. Please do not use cliques on me. I do not know anything about pissing in cornflakes but I know of one universal golden rule of "Do as you desire goodness for yourself, as you cannot expect tasty fruits if you sow thorny trees" (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Slok 23, p. 1379).

qbuster
08-12-2005, 12:16 PM
You mean cliches??


Please do not use cliques on me.

This is not a noble cause ....


noble cause

Too heavy man ... philosophical. I like "pissing in the cornflakes" better. More accessible to the common man.



"Do as you desire goodness for yourself, as you cannot expect tasty fruits if you sow thorny trees"


Pissing conflakes (Canadian farmer; no book, no page references).


(Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Slok 23, p. 1379).

billy
08-12-2005, 12:24 PM
Please visit this site for better undertstanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexual

Few months back, Astro's Discovery Channel also run a program on the X & Y Chromosomes, gene, and DNA discovery...

The Y Chromosome is geting smaller overtime, about 78 genes now and the X Chromosome is getting bigger, about 2048 genes. According to the research and projection, over 100 thousands years from now, the Y will reducing to nothing, only left X with increasing number of genes.

Present day, some fog species are all female, they reproduce off spring by mimit sexual activity with each other.

Jessie and other guys might be some of the "man" far infront of the evolution time and the nature way of saying ..... more will be coming ???????

chrisbachang
08-12-2005, 12:52 PM
Indeed. Why talk about pissing in cornflakes when we can talk about "This is the essence of morality: Do not do to others which if done to you would cause you pain" (Mahabharata, Xlll, 114.8, V, 1517) or "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" (Confucius Analects, 15.24).

:D

qbuster
08-12-2005, 01:04 PM
"Pissing in cornflakes" has a more relevant ontological syntext to the premises at hand, in comparison to the broad stroke context-less musings of the dead men you are quoting. They might as well apply to the metaphysical presence of snowflakes and still be universally true till eternity.

Meaning, these dead men are speaking gibberish that sounds profound to the uninspired mass who is just trying to get a head - and nothing more - over the rest.






Quickly as you can, snatch the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper (Kwai Chang Caine, every episode).



Indeed. Why talk about pissing in cornflakes when we can talk about "This is the essence of morality: Do not do to others which if done to you would cause you pain" (Mahabharata, Xlll, 114.8, V, 1517) or "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" (Confucius Analects, 15.24).

:D

chrisbachang
08-12-2005, 01:23 PM
Oops. Dead men speaking gibberish to the uninspired mass? You have just wiped away one of the most important tenets of Hinduism and Confucianism. Now. Either one of us is too free or both of us are. I rather let it be you. You have a good life, you hear, and don't be too hard on Dr Jessie Chung. She has the right to exist in this vast world of ours. You have made your point about her credentials. There is no need to hound her. Goodbye.

:)

qbuster
08-12-2005, 01:27 PM
Actually I was refering to you, not those dead men.

Why don't you come up with you own actual thoughts instead of spewing others?? Was that to impress me?



Oops. Dead men speaking gibberish to the uninspired mass? You have just wiped away one of the most important tenets of Hinduism and Confucianism. Now. Either one of us is too free or both of us are. I rather let it be you. You have a good life, you hear, and don't be too hard on Dr Jessie Chung. She has the right to exist in this vast world of ours. You have made your point about her credentials. There is no need to hound her. Goodbye.

:)

You are correct, "Dr" Chung does have a right to lie about her credentials, just like I have the right to expose them.

chrisbachang
08-12-2005, 01:31 PM
Peace be with You. Goodbye.

:)

trifecta
08-12-2005, 02:39 PM
Actually I was refering to you, not those dead men.

Why don't you come up with you own actual thoughts instead of spewing others?? Was that to impress me?




You are correct, "Dr" Chung does have a right to lie about her credentials, just like I have the right to expose them.

Hey Q then you must have heard of Derek Smart then.... and how flamers exposed his lack of credentials and forced him to remove his PHD and Dr titles from his signatures.

In case any of you are wondering who is Derek Smart, take a deep deep breath and dive in here. (warning: quite highly critical) http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/

trifecta
08-12-2005, 03:00 PM
Please visit this site for better undertstanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexual

Few months back, Astro's Discovery Channel also run a program on the X & Y Chromosomes, gene, and DNA discovery...

The Y Chromosome is geting smaller overtime, about 78 genes now and the X Chromosome is getting bigger, about 2048 genes. According to the research and projection, over 100 thousands years from now, the Y will reducing to nothing, only left X with increasing number of genes.

Present day, some fog species are all female, they reproduce off spring by mimit sexual activity with each other.

Jessie and other guys might be some of the "man" far infront of the evolution time and the nature way of saying ..... more will be coming ???????

Please no no no dont let this be true

orchipalar
08-12-2005, 03:38 PM
You are correct, "Dr" Chung does have a right to lie about her credentials, just like I have the right to expose them.Err...qBUSTER:)...Orchi inclines towards where you are coming from...n the following has somewhat impressed Orchi...n ahem...perhaps more so to others...:)

"Do not do unto others as you expect they should do unto you. Their tastes may NOT be the same." ~ George Bernard Shaw.

BTW...Orchi likes the Canadian farmers' quotes...better:D

guozi
08-12-2005, 08:29 PM
Actually I was refering to you, not those dead men.


You are correct, "Dr" Chung does have a right to lie about her credentials, just like I have the right to expose them.

Hey! you stupid little %^&*(#@, pls be very careful!!! You know who am I?!!
I obtained ITEC- Dip in Nutrition. Wanna see my certs??? Dont act clever over your little stupid comments. I WIL FINd U... :confused: :cool: :mad:

I-BUST-U
08-12-2005, 09:06 PM
Actually I was refering to you, not those dead men.

Why don't you come up with you own actual thoughts instead of spewing others?? Was that to impress me?




You are correct, "Dr" Chung does have a right to lie about her credentials, just like I have the right to expose them.
:eek: HEY. I AM FROM NORTH AMERICA ALSO.. JUZ LIK YOU! HA! BUT I M ACTUALLY STAYING IN USJ SS15. DONT TRY TO B FOREIGN OK? LOVE UR COUNTRY!!! CAN U TRUST EVERYTHING A LIAR TELLS US? :mad:

I WIL BUST U WIT MY EVERY MIGHT. COZ U R BIG LIAR N BIG SCAM AND :D
LUV U BABY...
SEE U 2NITE. AT UR PLACE. WE'LL HAVE GREAT TIME. :o :o LIAR

qbuster
08-12-2005, 09:11 PM
Of course I have heard of "Dr" Smart, and the likes like him. The list is long and I was simply adding another good "Dr" to it.

Thanks for citing the reference.



Hey Q then you must have heard of Derek Smart then.... and how flamers exposed his lack of credentials and forced him to remove his PHD and Dr titles from his signatures.

In case any of you are wondering who is Derek Smart, take a deep deep breath and dive in here. (warning: quite highly critical) http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/

qbuster
08-12-2005, 09:16 PM
Err ... I am not the one with a creditabilty problem:

I-BUST-U
Kawan Baru
IP: 60.48.102.250

guozi
Kawan Baru
IP: 60.48.102.250

And the threats and foul language ... please get a grip.



SEE U 2NITE. AT UR PLACE. WE'LL HAVE GREAT TIME. :o :o LIAR

Better hop on a plane now, it is a long flight if you want to get here by night fall.

trifecta
08-12-2005, 09:21 PM
:eek: HEY. I AM FROM NORTH AMERICA ALSO.. JUZ LIK YOU! HA! BUT I M ACTUALLY STAYING IN USJ SS15. DONT TRY TO B FOREIGN OK? LOVE UR COUNTRY!!! CAN U TRUST EVERYTHING A LIAR TELLS US? :mad:

I WIL BUST U WIT MY EVERY MIGHT. COZ U R BIG LIAR N BIG SCAM AND :D
LUV U BABY...
SEE U 2NITE. AT UR PLACE. WE'LL HAVE GREAT TIME. :o :o LIAR

Hey he didnt spam your blog (or your friends for that matter) so no need to spam this forum. Besides if he's bluffing call his bluff cos kwchang is gonna ban your sorry a**es for this kind of crap so why dont you post a rebuttal instead for all here to see and judge for themselves ...... unless of course you have nothing to offer besides this sort of crap..... then it's time to take out the sign

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/DoNotFeedTroll.jpg



Also on another note the foremost expert on this matter is Dr John Bear who also consults for the FBI on this matter, a simple email to him could actually clarify this matter once and for all.

qbuster
08-12-2005, 09:32 PM
Thanks for pointing this out.

Dr. Bear was the one that closed down Lafayette, and I believe I have provided some links to his page in one of my earlier post.

As I have said earlier the ITEC credit is partly correct, but they do not offer a Dipl. in Nutrition as far as I can tell. ITEC is mostly a beauty school. All this individual needs to do is quote an URL or provide an address. But most of these fraudsters like to create a smoke screen diversion ...

That has been the modus operandi with everyone who took a dislike to my posts. Almost predictable, unfortunately.

Cheers.


Hey he didnt spam your blog (or your friends for that matter) so no need to spam this forum. Besides if he's bluffing call his bluff cos kwchang is gonna ban your sorry a**es for this kind of crap so why dont you post a rebuttal instead for all here to see and judge for themselves ...... unless of course you have nothing to offer besides this sort of crap......

Also on another note the foremost expert on this matter is Dr John Bear who also consults for the FBI on this matter, a simple email to him could actually clarify this matter once and for all.

qbuster
08-12-2005, 09:35 PM
Only someone who spent some time on a farm can appreciate such wisdom ....


BTW...Orchi likes the Canadian farmers' quotes...better:D

qbuster
08-12-2005, 09:38 PM
And prosperity with you. Nanoo, nanoo.


Peace be with You. Goodbye.

:)

trifecta
08-12-2005, 09:56 PM
Err ... I am not the one with a creditabilty problem:

I-BUST-U
Kawan Baru
IP: 60.48.102.250

guozi
Kawan Baru
IP: 60.48.102.250

And the threats and foul language ... please get a grip.




Better hop on a plane now, it is a long flight if you want to get here by night fall.

Easy way to find out, if he really is a true blue canadian he should know about the summit series and break it down (if he's old enough and a fan of the said sport).

I know this because i had a P.E. teacher in school who had too much free time on his hands and assigned us obscure (for us anyway) sporting assignments as punishment for wanting to play football

qbuster
08-12-2005, 10:04 PM
"Dr" Chung added a few more credentials to her new profile page ...

http://www.jessiechung.com/profile.htm

The bounds of fools know no limits (quoted by me; no pages, no books references)


St. Andrew College Doctorate Degree in Natural Medicine ( USA )
Lafayette University (M.Sc Nutrition), USA
Hawaii University of Health Science (M.Sc Psychology)USA
Hawaii Oriental Medical College ( B.Sc. ),USA
Diploma in Nutrition, International Therapy Examination Council(ITEC,UK)
Bachelor of Homoeopathic Medical Science, (B.Sc.Malaysia)
Beijing China Medical Institute ( Cancer and Internal Medicine )
East West University of Holistic Health Sciences ( USA )-Professor in Natural Medical Department
Certified Nutritional Consultants (USA) Member of American Naturopathic Medical Association
Professional Member of the American Association of Nutritional Consultants
Certified Nutritional Consultant(AANC)USA,Registration No.1430
University of Health Science Hawaii M.S.C. Pscychology
Dominiah College (Toronto, Canada)SSHGD
The Great Lakes Collefe (Toronto, Canada)SSGD
Diploma In Fitness and Nutrition (ICS) USA
The American Holistic College of Nutririon (Bsc in Nutrition)USA, Alabama.
Certificate in Obstetric & Gynaecology Ultrasound (Obsterics and Gynaecology Dept. of Hospital Alor Setar) Malaysia
Certificate in Iridology C college at Oriental Medicine)USA
Certificate in management(University of Hawaii) USA
Certificate in electone Organ (Grade 8) Yamaha, Japan.
B,Sc in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine (Oriental Medical Institute of Hawaii)
Member of American Nutritional Medical Association
Member of Malaysia Homoeopathic Doctor Association
Speaker for Malaysia at the 6th World Male Medical Conference
Host of Health-care programme at AIFM & RFM 98.8

She is now implying she healed breast cancer and Hep B, through the testimony pages. That's the danger with quacks .... there are tons of legitimate MDs and PhDs who have spent years and money researching these areas of medicine and none has claimed such a cure. But "Dr" Chung has 6-7 degrees in her young 30-something life who has now found a cure thorugh imported stock herbs and supplements.


More work to do, more quacks to bust ... there's no rest for the wicked.

SunwayKid
08-12-2005, 10:53 PM
Hey! you stupid little %^&*(#@, pls be very careful!!! You know who am I?!!
I obtained ITEC- Dip in Nutrition. Wanna see my certs??? Dont act clever over your little stupid comments. I WIL FINd U... :confused: :cool: :mad:


:eek: HEY. I AM FROM NORTH AMERICA ALSO.. JUZ LIK YOU! HA! BUT I M ACTUALLY STAYING IN USJ SS15. DONT TRY TO B FOREIGN OK? LOVE UR COUNTRY!!! CAN U TRUST EVERYTHING A LIAR TELLS US? :mad:

I WIL BUST U WIT MY EVERY MIGHT. COZ U R BIG LIAR N BIG SCAM AND :D
LUV U BABY...
SEE U 2NITE. AT UR PLACE. WE'LL HAVE GREAT TIME. :o :o LIAR

You could have use whatever limited IQ that you have to rebutt logically. Instead, you create mutiple identities and remove all doubts of your capability with such crab and deserve to be with the company of those banished. :mad:

trifecta
08-12-2005, 10:57 PM
You could have use whatever limited IQ that you have to rebutt logically. Instead, you create mutiple identities and remove all doubts of your capability with such crab and deserve to be with the company of those banished. :mad:

What you expect man, they particpate in the "http://blog.kuchingfest.com/2005/11/17/what-is-dr-jessie-chungs-age"
contest. The servers are down with all the answers flooding in. But these guys are definitely not friends of hers, or her employees or relatives yada yada because of the said contests rules. Yes, there are rules and regulations which strictly prevents any cheating. Come on we cant have cheating can we. its 5 euros man i'd kill for that amount of money.

"1. Not Surname Chung é?? and does not have a relative that carries that surname in the six degrees range.
2. Not a worker of any of the Chung’s family and does not have any relative working for the Chung’s family in any of their businesses. This includes Siong Lee, Lok Thian, Natural Health Farm, Chung’s reflexology and any one of the business partner.
3. Not customer of these companies listed in rule 2.
4. Not affiliated to the companies listed in rule 2.
5. Did not obtain any information from the people listed in rule 2.
6. Not a schoolmate of Dr. Jessie Chung or Jeffrey Chung, and the Chung’s siblings
7. Has no defacto relationship with any of the Chung’s family member or any of their relative.
8. Not a worker or relative of Financial Institution, Registrar of companies, Any Medical Board, National Registration Board, imigrations, Telcos, any courts and any associates with have the legal rights to hold and kept people’s personal informations including people who has a copy of Dr. Jessie Chung/Jeffrey Chung’s IC

There is only one prize. if more than two person guess it correctly, a ballot will be drawn.

There will not be any prize giving ceremony and the prize is not sponsorred by anyone. It is coming out of my own pocket."

And believe me i am not making this up these are REAL contest rules posted.

Good Gawd this is killing me

But seriously...... from my earlier post which i have deleted and inserted here so as not to spam .......

After some careful examination on this site http://blog.kuchingfest.com and the fact that the site master is actually having a contest with a prize attached for winners of a "guess Jessie Chung's age" contest, i think it best if Qbuster or anyone else for that matter not to post on that site again, cos it seems to be attracting the sort of people who look like genunie participants of said contest (ie fanatics) to "particpate" in this forum. Sorry guys but no 5 euros prize for spamming this place but you'll get a banana or two.

qbuster
08-12-2005, 11:06 PM
Actually the blog is sparsely visited, and I was the only "contestant" in the contest - just to prove that there is no way a 32-year old can earn all the 6-7 degrees unless she bought them.

I think I-Bust-U/guozi is simply a flammer here.




What you expect man, they particpate in the "http://blog.kuchingfest.com/2005/11/17/what-is-dr-jessie-chungs-age"
contest. The servers are down with all the answers flooding in. But these guys are definitely not friends of hers, or her employees or relatives yada yada because of the said contests rules

"1. Not Surname Chung é?? and does not have a relative that carries that surname in the six degrees range.
2. Not a worker of any of the Chung’s family and does not have any relative working for the Chung’s family in any of their businesses. This includes Siong Lee, Lok Thian, Natural Health Farm, Chung’s reflexology and any one of the business partner.
3. Not customer of these companies listed in rule 2.
4. Not affiliated to the companies listed in rule 2.
5. Did not obtain any information from the people listed in rule 2.
6. Not a schoolmate of Dr. Jessie Chung or Jeffrey Chung, and the Chung’s siblings
7. Has no defacto relationship with any of the Chung’s family member or any of their relative.
8. Not a worker or relative of Financial Institution, Registrar of companies, Any Medical Board, National Registration Board, imigrations, Telcos, any courts and any associates with have the legal rights to hold and kept people’s personal informations including people who has a copy of Dr. Jessie Chung/Jeffrey Chung’s IC

There is only one prize. if more than two person guess it correctly, a ballot will be drawn.

There will not be any prize giving ceremony and the prize is not sponsorred by anyone. It is coming out of my own pocket."

And believe me i am not making this up these are REAL contest rules posted.

Good Gawd this is killing me

guozi
09-12-2005, 12:26 AM
I think qbuster ......

kwchang
09-12-2005, 12:38 AM
quozi and I-bust-U have been banned for obvious reasons. We have no room for flame wars here. Please settle any disagreements by PM or email with the party concerned and keep the arguements off the public forum. We do not need the heat.

And qbuster, please lay off the detective work. Frankly we are getting a bit tired of the revelations. This is a community forum to share information, not a witch-hunt.

orchipalar
09-12-2005, 12:45 AM
Err...dear qBUSTER:)...believe that the good would always towers above n over all evils...:)

"Evil exists to glorify the good. Evil is negative good. It is a relative term. Evil can be transmuted into good. What is evil to one at one time, becomes good at another time to somebody else." ~ Mencius.

Ahem...as another forumer would put it amply..."stick to your gun n do what ya feel is right" ~ Anonymous forumer Usj.com.my. :)

qbuster
09-12-2005, 01:24 PM
I apologize.

I am aware that I have overstayed my welcome here. That is not my original intention.


And qbuster, please lay off the detective work. Frankly we are getting a bit tired of the revelations. This is a community forum to share information, not a witch-hunt.

This is not a witch hunt ... in fact it was meant to be informative. I am sure your readers would be interested to hear about the false credentials of a "doctor" in your midst, and her ability to heal sick people.

But I will end my tenure here and right now, with one last informative missive on the latest credentials posted on her website:

*University of Health Science Hawaii M.S.C. Pscychology - no such university exists under such a name.

*Dominiah College (Toronto, Canada)SSHGD - Dominion College is a high school for foreign students, affectionately known as "Visa Schools", which was recently closed for granting credits for money.

*The Great Lakes Collefe (Toronto, Canada)SSGD - another "Visa School" but with a neutral reputation.

*Diploma In Fitness and Nutrition (ICS) USA - ICS is International Correspondence School, famous for the annoying loose inserts in magazines where you can earn a diploma in pretty well anything (including dental hygiene) via home study. Dental hygiene via home study. - what do you do ... work on your own teeth?? ICS is now owned by Thomson.

*The American Holistic College of Nutririon (Bsc in Nutrition)USA, Alabama - read www.quackwatch.org or just do a Google search.


Thank you and good bye to the few friendly souls whom I befriended in the last few weeks. Please visit me at my own blog: http://qbuster.blogspot.com. Flamers are welcome. Free speech and thoughts are hallmarks of advanced civilization (me; no pages, no books).

chrisbachang
09-12-2005, 01:40 PM
"No one is born to hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite. Even in the grimmest times in prison... I would see a glimmer of humanity in one of the guards" (Nelson Mandela).

:)

SunwayKid
09-12-2005, 01:53 PM
...........................................
Thank you and good bye................

Many thanks to you too, for the informative revealations...............I believe by now, most of us would have form an opinion, whether public or private, on "heshe" credibility and anything more, would be unlikely to sway anyone's opinion. :)

DatinLawa
09-12-2005, 02:30 PM
qbuster, i will visit your blog. have enjoyed your postings and i can't agree with you more and i despise those who hold false credentials especially if it relates to treating critically ill people. we definitely shouldn't let them live in "peace". like orchi said, do what you think is right.

if this is a "witch-hunt" for a good cause, why not? dun you want to know who are the bad guys / witches in your community so that you know how to protect yourself and your family from being harmed / cheated by them? no one is talking about how she looks, how she behaves, or how she treats her mother-in-law... that's her private life until she decides to make it public as well... for those that she made public, expect the public to unfold the truth if it is not... there's no issue of invation of privacy because it was made public by choice...

information sharing is a "BIG" word, it covers almost everything in the world including when's the next warehouse sales, what was the plate no of the snatch thief, what's the tactic of the salesman who goes around cheating people, what was the fine print in the bank agreement that we should look out for, etc etc... and that's the reason why internet has become so powerful...

orchipalar
09-12-2005, 03:25 PM
qbuster, i will visit your blog. have enjoyed your postings and i can't agree with you more and i despise those who hold false credentials especially if it relates to treating critically ill people. we definitely shouldn't let them live in "peace". like orchi said, do what you think is right.

if this is a "witch-hunt" for a good cause, why not? dun you want to know who are the bad guys / witches in your community so that you know how to protect yourself and your family from being harmed / cheated by them? no one is talking about how she looks, how she behaves, or how she treats her mother-in-law... that's her private life until she decides to make it public as well... for those that she made public, expect the public to unfold the truth if it is not... there's no issue of invation of privacy because it was made public by choice...

information sharing is a "BIG" word, it covers almost everything in the world including when's the next warehouse sales, what was the plate no of the snatch thief, what's the tactic of the salesman who goes around cheating people, what was the fine print in the bank agreement that we should look out for, etc etc... and that's the reason why internet has become so powerful...Err...Ampon Puan/Tuan Ku...Beribu ribu Ampon...Sembah Orchi harap di ampon...ahem...Orchi feels like kneeling down to kiss your toes...so well said indeed...:)

EdRoZeN
09-12-2005, 03:36 PM
I hate to say this but, if 'Dr.' Jessie Chung is really legitimate, she would have posted all of her qualifications all at a go, why would she wait till a few days later then post more?

If it was me, I will NEVER EVER forget the school or university that i studied in.

And besides, she is trying very hard to defend herself. The Chinese has a saying "Qing Zhe Zi Qing", which means if you done nothing wrong, you will have a clear conscience.

And upon viewing her webpage, i realised something. Her graduating ceremonies' photos were in mini print. I am also very sure that one will have their photos taken when graduating. Given the time in which she graduated, she should be using negatives, and printed out. So i dont see the reason why its in such a small print.

DatinLawa
09-12-2005, 03:58 PM
...Orchi feels like kneeling down to kiss your toes...so well said indeed...:)

even if i have "hong kong foot"?? ;)

ooppss... that's "chit-chatting" and i might get busted for that...

orchipalar
09-12-2005, 04:00 PM
Err...dear qBUSTER:)...Orchi appreciates your cause n efforts...please enlighten Orchi more as you go along your right path to uncover more of his/hers unethical tactics n practices...

Nobody is denying his/hers rights to her own privacy n what she intended for her own personal life...ahem...but misleading the general malaysian public with her falsified credentials or weak practices for one is dead wrong...

n having learnt all these lately...Orchi believes that's way too much...n feels that he/she has been over the boundaries of any moral decency...without any genuine n due considerations for the general public...

TQ n keep up with what you think is right...err...as Orchi would repeat it again here..."stick to your gun...n do what ya feel is right"

Err...please keep in touch...n if ya need to reach out...ya know where to find Orchi...:)

trifecta
09-12-2005, 04:33 PM
It's a double edged sword, expose her and she gets more publicity and plenty more sob stories and we have jokers like the "organiser of the guess the year jessie chung made her sex change contest" coming out and writing to the papers (best case) or coming her (very very worst case, i mean guess her age contest???!! I'm still in disbelief after reading it). But first place has anybody know somebody who's actually been "treated" by her or is she just a figurehead and there is somebody competent behind the scenes.

D'Man
09-12-2005, 06:19 PM
I'm so sad to know the codemnation made on Dr. Jessie. I was her patient and treated by her in her homoepathic clinic. I suffered migraine for 20 years and couldn't get treated in all kind of ways. At last I met her and was treated with her homoepathic medicine and proper nutrition advice, therapy and supplement. Eventually, my problem was solved. I been with her for years, and I know she is such a good ,kind, delicate and caring doctor. I just wonder why people just want to have personal attack on such a nice person without knowing her!!!! Besides, who are we to judge? Just as what Bible says: don't judge so that you won't be judge. May God Bless You All!

trifecta
09-12-2005, 10:06 PM
I'm so sad to know the codemnation made on Dr. Jessie. I was her patient and treated by her in her homoepathic clinic. I suffered migraine for 20 years and couldn't get treated in all kind of ways. At last I met her and was treated with her homoepathic medicine and proper nutrition advice, therapy and supplement. Eventually, my problem was solved. I been with her for years, and I know she is such a good ,kind, delicate and caring doctor. I just wonder why people just want to have personal attack on such a nice person without knowing her!!!! Besides, who are we to judge? Just as what Bible says: don't judge so that you won't be judge. May God Bless You All!

Wait wait, i thought everybody who knows her maintains that she isn't an MD but she was awarded a PHD hence the doctor thingy. Care to clarify da man. Also i was just wondering, since you have been to her treatment, is she the one doing the treatment or does she have qualifed medical staff on hand to dispense the treatment?

DatinLawa
10-12-2005, 09:38 AM
Eventually, my problem was solved. I been with her for years, and I know she is such a good ,kind, delicate and caring doctor. I just wonder why people just want to have personal attack on such a nice person without knowing her!!!! Besides, who are we to judge? Just as what Bible says: don't judge so that you won't be judge. May God Bless You All!

thanks for the god blessing. it was never a personal attack, it's all about her "false credentials"! good for you that whatever she gave you works for you BUT that doesn't make the misrepresenting right. just in case you dun understand, do you know the police who stripped the 4 chinese ladies for a body-check personally? you dun, but you might still condemn them and you want to know the "truth", because they have done something WRONG, i mean very WRONG. they might be good husbands or wifes or friends to whoever knows them but that doesn't make it OK for the wrong doings. dun confuse yourself with emotional attachment towards a person and the right/wrong about an issue. person aside, issue is the one we are talking about now. if it happens on another dr orchi, dr trifecta, dr chrisbachang, dr d'man or dr datinlawa, they will face the same music...

orchipalar
10-12-2005, 10:56 AM
I'm so sad to know the codemnation made on Dr. Jessie. I was her patient and treated by her in her homoepathic clinic. I suffered migraine for 20 years and couldn't get treated in all kind of ways. At last I met her and was treated with her homoepathic medicine and proper nutrition advice, therapy and supplement. Eventually, my problem was solved. I been with her for years, and I know she is such a good ,kind, delicate and caring doctor. I just wonder why people just want to have personal attack on such a nice person without knowing her!!!! Besides, who are we to judge? Just as what Bible says: don't judge so that you won't be judge. May God Bless You All!Err...D'Man:)...Orchi gathers from your response there...that you could be very close n attached to "him/her" in someway...

Homeopathic medicine or Homeopathy(not homoepathic)...is again controversial... (http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/health/homeopth/homeopth.htm) n whether or not.... it is a fake... (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html) ??...lies solely in your own conclusion... :)

qbuster
10-12-2005, 01:07 PM
.... read my rant on my blog (http://qbuster.blogspot.com/).

I just discovered a page on her Natural Health Farm web site claiming to provide a cure for cancer, brain tumour and hepatitis B.

My blood is really boiling ... these claims are dangerous. Why don't you people do something???? She is right in your neighbourhood, USJ (http://naturalhealthfarm.com/stockist.htm)!!!

EdRoZeN
10-12-2005, 02:41 PM
After reading qbuster's blog, my personal thoughts are of the following:

If she's legitimate, why won't she reveal the postal address of her schools?

Why she kept on adding the number of schools that she studied in?

Are the testimonials true? (Also in this case, is D'Man's words true?)

Why is the Graduating Ceremony photos in mini prints and of unclear shots?

Are you(D'Man) truely treated by Chung, as in she diagnosed your illness and gave you a prescription?



Thats all. I really hope that the public can think for themselves. What i think is that there are countless flaws with Chung.

trifecta
10-12-2005, 03:19 PM
My quick 2 cents. I just hope all this faking credentials stuff is just for the sake of suckering ppl in to her health farm where there are REAL professionals dispensing the treatment, hence my question to daman. So pls daman is there anybody else in her health farm???

CCY
10-12-2005, 03:29 PM
My quick 2 cents. I just hope all this faking credentials stuff is just for the sake of suckering ppl in to her health farm where there are REAL professionals dispensing the treatment, hence my question to daman. So pls daman is there anybody else in her health farm???

Come to think about it ,trifecta....what can stop you or the dumb me from dispensing those so call cures...? :confused:

trifecta
10-12-2005, 03:34 PM
Come to think about it ,trifecta....what can stop you or the dumb me from dispensing those so call cures...? :confused:

Nothing actually just our conscience. But if it was me starting a health farm i'd make sure that i'm employing ppl with real degrees to back up my sorry a** in case something goes wrong (especially if i'm not qualified that makes it almost every time)!

tan_r
10-12-2005, 04:24 PM
.... read my rant on my blog (http://qbuster.blogspot.com/).
qbuster, you are a revelation!

kwchang
11-12-2005, 12:17 AM
... these claims are dangerous. Why don't you people do something????
Thanks to qbuster, we have gotten a lot of info about Jessie.
I don't read the vernacular papers but I believe there would be a lot of such sensational stories available about miraculous healers. In these parts of the world where bomohs (shamans) are accepted, I guess people seldom bat an eyelid on hearing of such claims.

However, may I remind qbuster that we are not the authority on accreditation of such practitioners. I am sure there are laws to handle quacks. My stand on this issue is that qbuster is posting here for the benefit of the readers and we thank him for that. However, when he asks us why we are not doing something about this, I would like to say that this should be highlighted to the Malaysian Medical Association (MAA) if Jessie claims to be a qualified medical practitioner. It is not my job to do the notification. Perhaps someone of authority reading this should take the matter up but other than that I don't expect laymen like the members of this forum to carry the complaint through because we are just readers and do not have the relevant facts to bring up the case.

qbuster
11-12-2005, 02:35 AM
Sorry for stirring things up once again, and breaking my last promise to no longer post at your request.

I promise you I will stop posting now.

Those that wish to carry on this discussions, please post on my blog.



However, may I remind qbuster that we are not the authority on accreditation of such practitioners.

orchipalar
11-12-2005, 02:49 AM
Err...dear qBUSTER:)...in desperation...patients suffering from chronic n acute illnesses or their close relatives...would believe n pay anything n anyone to find a cure... :(

Ahem...few weeks ago recently...a relative of a Dato(person with a prominent title in Malaysia)...suffered ill effects from cosmetic surgery n treatment done by a couple whom were operating from a home n claiming to be 'experts' in that specific field...

Err...within a very short period of time upon the expose or 'tip off' to the relevant department of the health ministry...the couple's operation was 'busted'...surgical apparatus n 'unlicensed' drugs were seized...n the couple was also arrested...

Err...TV3 had reported the exclusive live media coverage of the bust...

Err...wonders whether you had thought of the option to go to the press about your findings...?

VeeJay
11-12-2005, 11:55 AM
Err...TV3 had reported the exclusive live media coverage of the bust...

Err...wonders whether you had thought of the option to go to the press about your findings...?

Normally TV3 and Malay Mail are eager to take up these kinda busting stories!

romeo
17-12-2005, 09:55 PM
And qbuster, please lay off the detective work. Frankly we are getting a bit tired of the revelations. This is a community forum to share information, not a witch-hunt.

Chang,

Sorry to say, but you are wrong here. You are doing our community a great disservice by asking him to stop.
qbuster's work is commendable and he is sharing information in a very transparent and professional manner.
Thousands of malaysians lose their life savings every month to quacks.
If qbusters' continued postings on this thread could help just 1 usj'rian avoid the NaturalHealthFarm outlet in Summit USJ, it would have been worth it. :mad:

qbuster
17-12-2005, 10:00 PM
Thank you Romeo, but I have to be respectful of the rules here and have stopped posting information about Jessie here.

I've been directing interested people over to my blog, http://qbuster.blogspot.com/, which has just been updated with a whole bunch of materials ... including a couple of retraction and apologies from me for either misinformation or inaccuracies.

I welcome all posters, supporters and distractors alike.

Cheers.



Chang,

Sorry to say, but you are wrong here. You are doing our community a great disservice by asking him to stop.
qbuster's work is commendable and he is sharing information in a very transparent and professional manner.
Thousands of malaysians lose their life savings every month to quacks.
If qbusters' continued postings on this thread could help just 1 usj'rian avoid the NaturalHealthFarm outlet in Summit USJ, it would have been worth it. :mad:

trifecta
17-12-2005, 11:26 PM
I agree with Qbuster, let all who are interested visit his blogspot (it's getting better by the day!), this is KW Chang's house and i dont mind respecting his wishes.

kwchang
19-12-2005, 12:04 AM
... this is KW Chang's house and i dont mind respecting his wishes.
Sorry, my neighbour, this is NOT my house. I am only the JANITOR here and that is the correct bill for my job. I clean up the mess and groundnut shells after the congregation goes to sleep most nights. And I do kick out any uninvited guests. But I don't own or have a share in this Forum. Heck, I don't even get paid !!

As for Jessie's case and a few others that had surfaced before, we stand by the decision to discourage defamation of character. My stand on this is simple - what if the accusations were wrong? We do not want to be an accessory to any character assasination. That is for the realm of rumours in emails and for the accusors to do in their own website or blogsite. Sorry, we are not a platform for this.

qbuster
19-12-2005, 04:38 AM
There has been no defamation of character and character assassinations - I only questioned, challenged and attacked her dubious and false credentials.

Have I ever made any unruly remarks about her sexual orientation, her sexual preference or her same-sex marriage, or her character? Chang, I've respected you enough, up until this point, but your accusations is unfounded.

Surely you can read for yourself what was posted. Clearly nothing that I have posted are just my opinions alone, and are always collaborated with third party references. Even a janitor should be able to know what is garbage and what's not.



As for Jessie's case and a few others that had surfaced before, we stand by the decision to discourage defamation of character. My stand on this is simple - what if the accusations were wrong? We do not want to be an accessory to any character assasination. That is for the realm of rumours in emails and for the accusors to do in their own website or blogsite. Sorry, we are not a platform for this.

EdRoZeN
20-12-2005, 10:25 AM
Guys, lets not get hot over this.