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BTK
15-11-2005, 08:48 AM
Anyone here familiar with JB town?

I'll be in JB town next week for business & plan to bring my family along. Just want to know what are JB main attractions? I'll be staying at Mutiara Hotel.

penangkia
15-11-2005, 02:19 PM
Anyone here familiar with JB town?

I'll be in JB town next week for business & plan to bring my family along. Just want to know what are JB main attractions? I'll be staying at Mutiara Hotel.

Singapore. ;)

bslee
15-11-2005, 02:35 PM
Holiday Plaza shopping center, Setulang laut mee rebus, Jalan Storey otak otak & nasi lemak! Ask around for directions..everyone there knows!

Ski
15-11-2005, 02:49 PM
There is nothing extraordinary in JB just like any towns overcrowded and traffic jams..why not take to a drive to Kota Tinggi for the waterfalls or Mersing for the sea food your family might enjoy it.

Have fun.

PJS
15-11-2005, 03:01 PM
Paper Wrapped Chicken!!! Yummy!

wAISEKMAo
15-11-2005, 03:27 PM
Anyone here familiar with JB town?

I'll be in JB town next week for business & plan to bring my family along. Just want to know what are JB main attractions? I'll be staying at Mutiara Hotel.

First time I hear people bring family jalan jalan to Johor Bahru.

Frankly speaking there are nothing at all in Johor Bahru unless u like to go to pubs. And the road makes me dizzy lar.

My advice to you really...is to bring passport...cross over to singapore and have a good time there. u can go to zoo, museum, shopping, makan at kallang, sentosa...all sorts of things.

BTK
15-11-2005, 04:58 PM
OK, will spend most of the time at the hotel swimming pool the whole afternoon & shopping at nite, then head for home the next day.

EdRoZeN
15-11-2005, 05:08 PM
OK, will spend most of the time at the hotel swimming pool the whole afternoon & shopping at nite, then head for home the next day.

LOL solid lah. Your reply sort of wasted everyone's views. :D LOL

wAISEKMAo
15-11-2005, 10:36 PM
LOL solid lah. Your reply sort of wasted everyone's views. :D LOL

Aiyo ya lar....wasted everyone's time. darn!

PJS
15-11-2005, 11:19 PM
No lah, BTK. Don't mind them, no wasted time at all lah...

I don't mind bringing family while visting JB or any other places while on business if it is convenient and doesn't intefere with business meetings. There's always some good food to be found in JB, and it's always an adventure to try new food at new places right? Though I'm not sure how nice is the hotel ur staying, it is still nice for the family to relax at pool side and do nothing. :D

Believe me, paper wrapped chicken is nice(at least it used to be, some yrs back), just ask your local business associates to point u in the right direction.

lonewolf8
15-11-2005, 11:40 PM
Since you are staying in Mutiara Hotel, holiday plaza shopping center is just next door. You can try the JB type of bak kut teh which is different from what we having in KL. Also must try the famous "Kueh teow kiah" in JB. The best one is located at a three storey flat somewhere near the Eden Hotel and it only opens at night from 9.00pm to 12.00pm. There are also lots of food at Danga Bay too.

fRaNkY
16-11-2005, 02:06 PM
Got Sultan palace by the seaside, got dataran sumthing... got Lido beach.... visit the more than 1000 years chinese temple (near Pan Pac), visit the hill... Bukit Timbalan... Makan2 at Jln Meldrum "Segget Walk?" :D ... there is a zoo, Kota Tinggi waterfall, famous fish head curry (infront of broadway cinema, below floor of some chinese association), famous duck king at Jln Segget, heritage walk (Jln Ah Fook, Siu Nam, Jln Terus, others... Have fun...

BTK
16-11-2005, 04:15 PM
Many apologies. Your feedback are all good, no views are wasted. I was hoping to find out something that I really want to do with my family.

;)

lbn
16-11-2005, 04:16 PM
The Royal Museum, the Palace at Lido Beach is worth visiting. They have a good collection of mostly Ming vases and potteries and many collections of Sultan Ibrahim. Much better than the Selangor museum. Outside the Palace is a nice park and garden. Eventhough my wife is from JB and had benn staying in Taman Pelangi, each time we go down we go to the park in Air Molek Hutan Rekreasi. You should go the TDC to find out more.

Have a wonderful stay! :)

Ski
16-11-2005, 04:19 PM
Franky these views are good information for all its not wasted, so go ahead.

cannondale
16-11-2005, 08:39 PM
Hotel Mutiara is next to Holiday Plaza.You will be shocked by the number of pirated DVD shops there.If you interested in buying, let them know.,they will bring you into a secret room where you can choose your selection of movies without having to squeeze outside the shop with other people who are just 'look look see see'.Anyway, it's not the nicest mall to shop around as it does not have much variety.This place is a favourite haunt for ahbengs n ahlians.

City Square is a good place to shop located at the heart of the JB.Avoid walking along Jln Wong Ah Fook and Jalan Dhoby at night if you're travelling with ur kids.Those pondans openly gyrate their hips on the street and sometimes even chase after people!! GAAHH..Plaza Pelangi is not bad too.

Do not visit Johor Zoo.You'll be horrified by the state of the animals well being there. :eek:

For late night kuew tiao kia..as mentioned above..go to the shops there near Hotel Eden/Duty Free Zone Complex.During the day, the best kuew tiao kia is the one outside Plaza Pelangi.It'a a corner shop located along Jalan Maju.

Lido Beach is a no no~~ It's extremely polluted because from what I heard JB general hospital discard their wastes into a drain and the drain flows into the sea!! Not sure how true but I do not there is really a drain flowing straight from the hospital to the sea.

Kota Tinggi is a bit far and the place lack signboard cause it's still only a small town.Unless you really know the way, I dont recommmend goin there as it will at least take up a whole day.

If you want some cheap n good food..go to the hawker centre beside the Tebrau wet market.Mainly Chinese stalls.Or you can head to the stalls outside Duty Free complex..there is this Malay stall selling yummylicious bbq quail.Or go to this hawker centre beside the Sultanah Aminah Hospital.THe ikan bakar n deep fried baby crabs will blow you away.It's a chinese apek at one end of the place.

You might have heard of Danga Bay which is about 5km from the city.It's great place for family chill out.There's food court,explanade, mini fun fair(ferris wheel etc) and park to basically walk around.

I couldnt agree more when other members suggest you bring a passport and crossover to singapore :D This is the best time to go there!! Go Orchard Road at night and see those beautiful lightings and decorated streets..Christmas comes early in Sg heh..heh..Bring a camera too.

Jb-ians usually speak mandarin n hokkien.Unlike here..where majority speaks cantonese.Of course, there are also ppl speaking canto in jb lar.And one more thing..do drive your own car wherever you go.Those taxi fellas will ketuk you like hell..

Happy Roadtrip ;)

Ski
16-11-2005, 08:53 PM
Hi Cannondale.

What an excellent write up on JB, you have made this sleepy town look so interesting to visit.

Are there any other towns you know as much and their secret eating haunts?

Cheerz

GreenBug
16-11-2005, 09:01 PM
Many apologies. Your feedback are all good, no views are wasted. I was hoping to find out something that I really want to do with my family. ;)My first job BTK, was based in JB. The office was in a building known as Bangunan Pelangi along Jln Biru, now replaced by some private condominium. So, you can guess how long that has been.... :rolleyes:

I still go to JB once a while for some of their specialties esp. food. Their fried kuey teow is different, with an uncooked egg in the centre and you need to stir it into the kuey teow, cooks itself and makes the fried kuey teow a wee bit sticky.

Then there is the 'bak kut teh' which is different. Its really good stuff as it is cooked in dark sauce and the gravy is dark and thick. Even the cut red chilli comes with dark soya sauce... There is also the "consomme" type of bak kut teh ie clear soup type with cili padi inside.... just don't bite the cili padi or else steam comes out from your ears and nostrils in big gushes.... :eek:

The mee rebus is really good. There was a coffeeshop in front of the church in Taman Sri Tebrau, don't know if its still there. Try the soto ayam there too, really good....

The most popular fish in JB esp along Lido Beach is the Kim Bak Lor fish deep-fried in ginger and soya sauce.... crispy, fresh and yummy....

Oh should you pass by Taman Sentosa, there is a shop that sells 19 types of 'chang' including the 'bak chang', the 'ki chang' the 'tau sar chang' and what have you..... :D

Even the simple goreng pisang in JB along the roadside is special, they used a type of pisang awak which is slightly bitter and unripe and it can taste nice too.... :)

Go JB, go enjoy yourself and not listen to the naysayers. Just watch out just in case the Sultan's Black Panther don't escape from the zoo again.... :D

orchipalar
17-11-2005, 12:11 AM
Oh should you pass by Taman Sentosa, there is a shop that sells 19 types of 'chang' including the 'bak chang', the 'ki chang' the 'tau sar chang' and what have you.....

Err...where they got...some would say...the BEST bak kut teh...in the whole of JB City...n some would also say...better than most in Klang...

It's called..."Ah Soon Kor Bak Kut Teh" :D

GreenBug
17-11-2005, 05:45 PM
Err...where they got...some would say...the BEST bak kut teh...in the whole of JB City...n some would also say...better than most in Klang...

It's called..."Ah Soon Kor Bak Kut Teh" :DAh Soon's other name is KUDA. Many years back, he used to run a Bak Kut Teh shop along Jalan Tebrau itself, a cornershop called Captain's Cabin. True, best Bak Kut Teh around, but Ah Soon (or KUDA) "got kicked by a horse's hind legs" :eek: (i.e. he lost big time in horse-racing bets) and was not around for some time. This shop is his new start in life..... :rolleyes:

Kena tendang kuda, naik sekali lagi.... :D

orchipalar
17-11-2005, 06:48 PM
Ah Soon's other name is KUDA. Many years back, he used to run a Bak Kut Teh shop along Jalan Tebrau itself, a cornershop called Captain's Cabin. True, best Bak Kut Teh around, but Ah Soon (or KUDA) "got kicked by a horse's hind legs" :eek: (i.e. he lost big time in horse-racing bets) and was not around for some time. This shop is his new start in life..... :rolleyes:

Kena tendang kuda, naik sekali lagi.... :D
Err...true...very true GreenBug:)...heard also if kena tendang kuda...wasn't bad enough...he was known to be quite a generous n charming man at Genting too...:D

Err...last saw him sitting by the tables...chit-chatting with his clients...while his long n devoted wife of many years...n his daughters(known them since they were kiddies) were running the show...:p

Err...it ain't easy for the the ladies being close n behind those fierce burning stoves...boiling pots n pots of the BKT brew n serving them to the packed house clients...:rolleyes:

Err...can you still remember seeing his misai?:D

Back to the BEST BKT in JB...they ONLY serve ribs...:)

GreenBug
17-11-2005, 09:43 PM
Err...can you still remember seeing his misai?:DYou too think he also look like a horse, eh? :eek:


Back to the BEST BKT in JB...they ONLY serve ribs...:)The best bowl is the one at the end of the pot... be the last few customers..... :D

fRaNkY
18-11-2005, 09:35 AM
If u buy VCD in JB and rosak how? drive all the way back to exchange?

Low yat is much nearer lar :D

Hmmmm... there is a famous Kari Laksa in Jalan water works... cant remember wats the restaurant name...

Yellow Roses
18-11-2005, 11:32 AM
The famous laksa is known as Waterworks Laksa lor.. run by a lady with many daughters ( and also... all got big boobs one...( i used to refer to the stall as the Tai-Neen Phor Laksa hehehe)... They used to occupy an open space next to the shoplot but has since upgraded to the shoplot itself. It is located opposite Taman Nong Chik.
Also the Hawker Centre (Tepian Tebrau) next to the Sultanah Aminah Hospital has also been relocated to this open space next to the Dataran Merdeka , exactly infront of Hyatt Hotel actually.

GreenBug
18-11-2005, 11:44 AM
The famous laksa is known as Waterworks Laksa lor.. run by a lady with many daughters ( and also... all got big boobs one...( i used to refer to the stall as the Tai-Neen Phor Laksa hehehe)... They used to occupy an open space next to the shoplot but has since upgraded to the shoplot itself. It is located opposite Taman Nong Chik.Ha Ha Ha I remember this Laksa stall.... strange that the lady boss doesn't have the same assets as the 4 daughters.... where the DNA connection come from? :confused: Anyway Laksa there was the best, just watch the see ham as I was told its from Lido Beach lah where Hospital Tun Aminah discharged their affluents straight into the sea there :eek:

Yellow Roses
18-11-2005, 12:07 PM
Wei Greenbug...I thot the lady boss also got big nehneh wat...only thing not like her daughters' lah.. (hehehe... boleh kena banana ka ini topik??)
U better be kidding about the `seeham' from Lido beach leh..me quite a regular there leh..
Btw.. when you have been to KLCC, 1-Utama, Mid-Valley, Sunway Pyramid, etc in KL & PJ, you wouldn't want to waste your time in Holiday Plaza or Plaza Pelangi or City-Square in JB lah unless you really got nothing better to do lah..
Plza Pelangi & City Square not too bad to hang around but H Plaza (next to Mutiara not really a good place - lots of rowdy character around)
For makan-makan, still not too bad - as recommended by some of the forumers earlier on. When I have frens coming over, either we go to the islands near Mersing, or seafood at Telok Sengat (Near Desaru) or in some parts of JB itself. JB oso got teruk punya traffic jam in town..

GreenBug
18-11-2005, 01:04 PM
For makan-makan, still not too bad - as recommended by some of the forumers earlier on. When I have frens coming over, either we go to the islands near Mersing, or seafood at Telok Sengat (Near Desaru) or in some parts of JB itself. JB oso got teruk punya traffic jam in town..Tell me something Yellow Roses, there used to be a place we 'discovered' back in the early 80s called Kong Kong where the bay is a "graveyard" for mothballed ocean-plying vessels, is it still there for seafood? It was good, like Kukup on the west coast of Johor, until the Singaporeans found out about it! :p

Pengerang was another place, about 15 minutes after Telok Ramunia, there was a "HILTON" hotel there, RM8 a night with the salesmen then, wahlau very good time we had playing mahjong everytime we were there.... 3-leg type of mahjong :D

Lobster Thermidor at Mersing Rest House was just RM6 each... but then it was 1982! :p

BTW if you bring your friends to the islands off Mersing (Pulau Babi Besar, Pulau Babi Tengah, Pulau Babi Kecil, Pulau Sibu, Pulau Tinggi) its okay. For Pulau Rawa, make sure you bring your own golf clubs in case the host :eek: crash your party with golf clubs again???? :eek:

Yellow Roses
18-11-2005, 02:26 PM
Tell me something Yellow Roses, there used to be a place we 'discovered' back in the early 80s called Kong Kong where the bay is a "graveyard" for mothballed ocean-plying vessels, is it still there for seafood? It was good, like Kukup on the west coast of Johor, until the Singaporeans found out about it! :p

Pengerang was another place, about 15 minutes after Telok Ramunia, there was a "HILTON" hotel there, RM8 a night with the salesmen then, wahlau very good time we had playing mahjong everytime we were there.... 3-leg type of mahjong :D

Lobster Thermidor at Mersing Rest House was just RM6 each... but then it was 1982! :p

BTW if you bring your friends to the islands off Mersing (Pulau Babi Besar, Pulau Babi Tengah, Pulau Babi Kecil, Pulau Sibu, Pulau Tinggi) its okay. For Pulau Rawa, make sure you bring your own golf clubs in case the host :eek: crash your party with golf clubs again???? :eek:


Sorry...just balik from lunch...today's Friday mah...lunchtime lama sikit. Anyway...many years back heard abt KongKong but now I oso not sure if the seafood restaurant still exists. There are others seafood haven mostly so-called run by Orang Asli (but I usually see Chinese Towkays) at Tanjung Puteri and Telok Jawa both at the Pasir Gudang end, and you'll also find seafood restaurants (I think at least 4 of them) at Perling side - very popular with Singaporeans. Nearer to town, there are also a couple of pretty good seafood restaurants in Permas Jaya, near the Straits View Condo, these restaurants face Singapore's Senoko if I'm not wrong.
For Chinese food , esp. Chilli Crabs or Spareribs, head for the Pekin Restaurant in Tmn Sentosa..or their branch at Tmn Molek.
Ooops...now have I gone off-topic pulak... sounds like Jalan-Jalan cari makan in JB..

GreenBug
18-11-2005, 08:04 PM
Is the Glutton Square in Kluang still there? Do they still serve the coffee from "butter-fried" beans at Kluang Railway Station or their famous Toasted Yellow Bun with Margarine & Kaya? :D Hmmmm... still remember Batu Pahat was once called "The Paris of the East".... and the famous Asia Hotel was burned to the ground too.... :eek:

Knight1993
20-11-2005, 04:20 PM
I also agree with the others,bring ur passport and cross over to singapore,you will be amazed at how clean the beach is,i just went to singapore 2 weeks ago,but i never had a chance to swin in the beach,the damn school won't let us swin in it,anyway,have a nice trip!

GreenBug
21-11-2005, 10:26 AM
I also agree with the others,bring ur passport and cross over to singapore,you will be amazed at how clean the beach is,i just went to singapore 2 weeks ago,but i never had a chance to swin in the beach,the damn school won't let us swin in it,anyway,have a nice trip!And who dirty the beaches in Malaysia? :rolleyes:

humbble
21-11-2005, 12:02 PM
Hi BTK,

There is a place near Johor specialist where it is famous for its Tree top cafe. The place is special because you can dine or drink teh tarik on top of trees! Very special place indeed especially with your kids around.

Try to visit Sebana Cove if you go to Pengerang or Sg Renggit for Lobster (New Lucky Restaurant). Sebana cove is a very romantic place for you to hold hands with your wife and watch the sun-set.Do not forget to visit the swimming pools where those foreigners who visit Sebana in their yacth usually bring bunch of Ang moh babes with g-strings swim wear(even my one year old son oggled like his dad did).

Danga Bay is really a nice place for family entertainment. Very successful in drawing crowds daily.

The third floor Kuey Tiao kia opens at 10.30pm, another aternative is Boon Keong, more herbal just along the same road and opens earlier with Aircon too.

There is a best kept secret which I would like to share over here in USJ forum.For those who say Kolam Ayer's Tah nee laksa is best, you can try it's nearest contenders,You Shui restaurant at Tmn Century, along Jln Seri Tebrau opposite Plaza pelangi. a few shops away from Pizza hut. You can add lime to the laksa to have the special distinctional taste.

The best BKT i tried is Shi Hua BKT originally from Kulai. They got branches all over JB, good try, many love it.Another one is at Johor Jaya, Ah lek, quite famous.

One of the best noodle shop is Ah Hwa kuey tiao, at Plentong.The soup base is fantastic. A must try for all.

:)

These shop owners used to be Johor Sultan's chef.
a)At tmn Perling, you can try Mana Lagi nasi lemak, one of the best in JB.Popular among Singaporeans when they pass by Perling when going back via Tuas checkpoint.

b)At Kg Pasir Puteh, there is a Malay shop by the Kelong selling fried Siakap (whole even with scales)

c)My auntie who is always invited by Johor Sultan to cook Indonesian curry prawns for the Sultan. No sun tan is used and I know the brand of the evaporated milk is Flag brand.Very difficult to find, only Xtra is selling.


I agree that shopping malls are nothing compared to KL ones, a waste of time unless you got nothing better to do.

Kota tinggi waterfalls, erm....ok lar, still can visit and dun forget to try their famous Basir nasi ayam near a shopping mall.You can also try to hitch up Firefly trips in Kota tinggi.

Other nice food in JB would be Pandan beef balls(Pandan & johor jaya)
Bittergourd soup (Johor Jaya & Senai)

onion leaf fish slices and Pi Pa Ya (senai Kim Loong)

Swee Kee Chicken rice along airport road

roti bakar & chee cheong fan at Tmn Puteri wangsa/Ulu tiram

scs butter roti bakar at Hwa muey in JB town.

famous wantan mee near mutiara hotel ho kee (if i am not wrong)

Jalan seelong sup cendawan, very run down place but the soup is fantastic, a malay shop. During lunch time, you have to wait for seats under hot sun.Their goreng cendawan is a bit hit(memorable)

there is a nice fish head curry at Perling,opposite perling mall, ah seng restaurant.The gravvy is perfect at least for me.

Orang asli seafood restaurant at Pasir gudang/Perling ask for directions from locals. Todak seafood restaurant at Rinting(they have all the exotic seafood imported from Sabah with fishes costing thousands of ringgits)

There is a mobile stall near Skudai opposite lee Pineapple factory selling chay tao kuey and fried noodles. The old man had been selling for donkey years with his cousin always topless.The old man cook plate by plate, do not ask to cut queue, he won't entertain. He will say" If you can wait, then wait.If not, come some other days" Sort of cocky but he wants to maintain his quality to ensure each and every plate is his best. :eek:

Around the corner, there is a duck meat stall which opens during noon, they serve one of the best in JB. Even better than the Skudai duck meat. :rolleyes:

Mee rebus, the one at stulang laut is nice but there is a wooden shop near Xtra at Kg melayu selling better mee rebus in the morning.I love it and there is some beef in it which provide it the aromatic taste.

At tmn molek,there is a yong tau foo shop by the name Jiang kee, not bad, but still Ampang is the best in Malaysia

At Taman Daya, you have the claypot catfish cooked with lots of dried chillies. Near the old market (corner lot)

At tmn sentosa, there is two famous mien fen kuey.There is one in the shop and one outside the shop.Most ppl said the one outside is the best.I would like you guys to feedback to me.

Ah koon fish ball is not bad too. Dun forget to try their specialty, fish cake.Very crispy and go perfect with their chilli.

At pelangi, the Ah kow san low fried mee hoon is famous. They are the pioneers, so it is up to you whether you want to go for the pioneers or (replicas).

Enjoy your jalan jalan in JB.

The crime rate is high over here, try not to go around with handbags for ladies. Do not go to bank to draw too much cash in JB.You will be marked.(for jb and non jb citizens).In the even if you notice you have flat tires and have alot of cash in your car, very high chances, your tire had been punstured with umbrella spook.
First, lock your cars.
Second,ignore anybody who is "trying" to alert you
Third, drive your car to the nearest tyre shop/police station to have your money safeguarded.
fourth, you have to sacrifice your rims (be it Sparco or non sparco)
Get your tyre fixed and put the money back into your bank (you r marked)

GreenBug
21-11-2005, 07:27 PM
The crime rate is high over here, try not to go around with handbags for ladies. Do not go to bank to draw too much cash in JB.You will be marked.(for jb and non jb citizens).So I was told by my JB friends, so I was told. But humbble, why is the crime rate still so high after the "wide publicity" of the lady who was killed during a snatch-theft early this year? Aren't there enough cops or they are all watching Astro in their Jln Tebrau HQ? :mad:

humbble
22-11-2005, 11:03 AM
Hi Green Bug,

Indeed it is high over here.Especially when near to festive seasons. Snatch thieves with accomplice in motorbike will go around and search for vistimes.My mum was robbed not less than ten times for the past few years coming out from the bank.

Once,after drawing 20k, she was surrounded by one wira and few motorbikes following her home. She noticed and raced with them to the police stations. Outside the Police station, they gave up.

I personally witness a few snatch cases myself,right in front of my eyes.Singaporeans are always the most targetted ones. Those smart ones will wear like a Jiu Hoo kia and they will be safer.

sirgalahad2010
22-11-2005, 03:00 PM
Best thing about JB is that it is next to Singapore!

Good for all those kiasu parents in JB who send their children to schools in Singapore (the daily Causeway trek) to benefit from a world-class education system, taught in ENGLISH no less! Never mind that they have to pay "non resident" school fees. This is what makes the nationalistic types in M'sia go all cross-eyed.

And the shopping centres in S'pore - major branded goods heaven, mah. And genuine stuff, no less.

And now with the Crazy Horse cabaret coming to a permanent home in S'pore's Clarke Quay (tastefully topless women in artistic poses), it will be a good place for our bored royalty and tycoons to let their hair down....Sigh...I wish that we had the Crazy Horse show in Bangsar, KL - wouldn't that be something??? :D

Ski
22-11-2005, 03:14 PM
Imo I rather spend my RM in Johore Baru and have a good time instead of getting ripped off by the kiasu ppl of Singapore, and afterall most of the stuff comes from the Asean countries. You can buy all the same stuff at the half the price in JB

Reading all the posts here, JB is also a haven for good food unlike Singapore's bland tasteless food and pricey.

I do go to Singapore just to visit my brother often and stay indoors.

sirgalahad2010
22-11-2005, 03:51 PM
Ski

Don't miss the Crazy Horse shows when they open in Singapore - if nothing, at least to see our M'sian VIPs on a bit of R&R. To appreciate a bit of foreign culture, u see.

And, yup, they would be the last people to be worried about the S$1=RM2.2+ exchange rates, right?

Whereas we tikus have to content ourselves with roti canai and teh tarik in JB. Not that I am complaining. U never know whose beady, little eyes are focused on this forum! ;)