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uchangeng
31-10-2005, 11:43 AM
Today Utusan Malaysia, our academicians are now asking why our nation oldest Malaya University, MU, is dropped further down in the world 200 best unis.

No finger pointing here, but we all know the obvious answers, don't we? The quality of students admission is one, the criteria for admission is another and of course, our National Agenda is another deciding factor.

To the UMNO politicans, what is more important to them is the narrow minded so-called national agenda! In reality, it is the communal political agenda that matter.

Each year we see excellent high school graduates who do their school proud but yet are unable to gain admission into MU because of the so called National Agenda!

GreenBug
31-10-2005, 03:57 PM
UM is my alma mater. I got my first degree in economics & business administration from UM. I also obtained my MBA from the same university. Am I proud of UM now? I dunno, I used to point out the campus to friends and visitors to KL, each time I passed by Pantai Valley, I don't anymore. :mad:

I joined the alumni, I paid my dues, I made my donations, what else can I do as an alumnus, right?

Just look at their MBA Alumni Association website at www.ummbaa.com and you will understand why it has dropped to 169... :mad:

JackRyan1975
31-10-2005, 04:23 PM
UM is my alma mater. I got my first degree in economics & business administration from UM. I also obtained my MBA from the same university.

No matter what the ranking is, I'd always have respect for UM grads who got in the hard way i.e. via good results in STPM/HSC, and not other dubious ways. Well, i said it...it's all these dubious entry points, dubious people running the university, dubious staff selection/promotion criteria and dubious person running the higher ed ministry that is running this institution to the ground.

gtl
31-10-2005, 04:54 PM
National University Singapore is ranked 22 in the list, i think that's something our gomen shd be concern abt. while UM is an older uni but NUS have leapfrogged us many times over.

sometimes i feel our gomen likes to makes stupid excuses for our failure to be the best!

anyway, what to do...............maybe next year we be out of top 200, then how?

penangkia
31-10-2005, 05:55 PM
No matter what the ranking is, I'd always have respect for UM grads who got in the hard way i.e. via good results in STPM/HSC, and not other dubious ways. Well, i said it...it's all these dubious entry points, dubious people running the university, dubious staff selection/promotion criteria and dubious person running the higher ed ministry that is running this institution to the ground.


Jack, what you say is true.

If you go to a neighbourhood clinic and you see MBBS Mal. and the doc is a Chinese or Indian, you will probably still see him/her because he/she must be tops to be able to get into UM the quota way.

If the doc. with an MBBS Mal. is a Malay, you would probably say let's try some place else.

This is not racial discrimination...purely lost of faith in the NEP uni quota system.

I do feel sorry for some Malay docs. who are just as good as any.

JackRyan1975
31-10-2005, 06:23 PM
If you go to a neighbourhood clinic and you see MBBS Mal. and the doc is a Chinese or Indian, you will probably still see him/her because he/she must be tops to be able to get into UM the quota way.

If the doc. with an MBBS Mal. is a Malay, you would probably say let's try some place else.

It goes both ways actually. I'd be more comfy going to a Chinese MBBS (Malaya) compared to a Chinese MBBS (Otago) for instance. Not to say other uni is not good, but at least the quality is assured by the almost airtight admission criteria for Chinese.

No problem if it's a Malay MBBS (Otago) but will stay away from a Malay MBBS (Malaya) with similar reasoning.

kwchang
01-11-2005, 12:17 AM
...If the doc. with an MBBS Mal. is a Malay, you would probably say let's try some place else......
I do feel sorry for some Malay docs. who are just as good as any.
In one breadth you have just generalised and broadly suggested the racial association to quality of medical graduates. No matter if you tried to redeem yourself by saying the 2nd part. If I was a Malay grad who sweated and burnt midnight oil to pass MBBS Mal., I'd be very angry with that statement.

I have been watching this thread closely and have seen the liberties taken to type cast and categorise the abilities of students by race without substantial evidence. This shows some of you have not yet developed objectivity in your arguments.

If we feel the University management had failed to bring desired standards of foreign assessors, we have the right to say so. May I remind you that if the standards have been lowered as alleged, then ALL academically poor students, regardless of race have an equal opportunity of passing out despite their poor academic capabilities. I know... I am also a graduate of UM. I have met non-Malay students who are poor in their academic performances.

isarahim
01-11-2005, 12:29 AM
Race should be taken out of the educational equation entirely. As long as we allow race to play any sort of role in our education system, we will never improve.

This regards both the students and the selection of teachers. If a teacher has the right profile for a certain professorate (i.e. track record, academia, merits, international exposure, recognition etc) the teacher is the right person for the job regardless of race or nationality.

In fact, race should be taken out of every equation on the entire earth.

expat1609
01-11-2005, 12:47 AM
...but it is a fact, that wherever i go to polyclinic i come along 95% indian doctors. what does not mean i would reject a malay or chinese one !!!!
but why is that so ? are there certain domains still typical indian/chinese/malay and so on??
like moneychangers are indian, lawyers and the like are singh... :confused:
insurance met only chinese agents so far ???
p.s. have met malay lawyers as well, chinese doc's ...... not generalising and not rating any race or profession, o.k.? ;)

jasonbhlee
01-11-2005, 10:15 AM
quite a number of forummers on this thread are products of University Malaya.....so am I. At that time (in the early sixties...u can guess my age..)..everyone in my kampung will talk all the high about you being admitted to the premier university in our land. Whatmore I was from the engineering faculty which took in only 200 undergraduates each year. At that time there was already a matriculation for selected Bumis....but I must say there were good Bumi students too.
In the later years we have university after university sprouting out...and UM is no longer the premier university..it is also not the national University, being taken over by University Kebangsaan (as the name suggest). Within the academics..politicking is obvious....lecturers whom students have high regards were often not promoted..you can guess why. This resulted in brain drain and yet we do nothing. Talking about how to improve needs affirmative action. And with the always denial syndrome our government and vice chancellors is in...chances of improvement can be forgotten. I will try to send my kids to a foreign university!

tupai
01-11-2005, 10:53 AM
my company is for graduates from
1. UK (preferences to Univ of London :p
2. Oz (preferences to Mel U
3. US (highly selective cos lotsa rubbish U there)
4. Non graduate but with right attitude, initiative & Xfactor
5. Local U (highly suspicious :o except the pioneer smart cookies of <80s.

And it doesn't matter if his/her skin can be green colour, prays to Mighty Neebokaneezer. But must he/she speak any major world languages and 'trainable' in day-to-day :D

yang amat bias lato tupai BA, UK., I.D.K.N., B.T.O. Mal.

GreenBug
01-11-2005, 11:17 AM
In one breadth you have just generalised and broadly suggested the racial association to quality of medical graduates. No matter if you tried to redeem yourself by saying the 2nd part. If I was a Malay grad who sweated and burnt midnight oil to pass MBBS Mal., I'd be very angry with that statement.I tend to agree with what Expat1609 said. I was a student in UM in late 70s and I barely made in into the Faculty of Econs & Admin with four above average A-levels principals and a Subsid for G.Paper. My good friend, the late singer Sudirman Haji Arshad, was in law faculty with just 2 principals and 1 subsid. Hey........ :eek:

Some of my classmates from Sixth Form, whom I knew "thru and thru" were in Law or same faculty, while many with better results were left out in the cold. No money to go overseas, they queued to places like TAR College etc. Now, what does that tell you? :mad:

We are not trying to be racial here when we discuss this issue, no, this forum is very respectable. We are just laying down the facts as they are... now thats fair discussion for me, don't know about the rest. :rolleyes:


I have been watching this thread closely and have seen the liberties taken to type cast and categorise the abilities of students by race without substantial evidence. This shows some of you have not yet developed objectivity in your arguments.Sure, some of us got angry (perhaps from some old baggage) but we should still allow divergent views although being racial shouldn't be allowed. Then again, how can we ignore the list of faculty members of the Faculty of Engineering of UM, as posted by another forumer? Its spoke tons on the reality of things, without a single racial words being uttered! :mad:


If we feel the University management had failed to bring desired standards of foreign assessors, we have the right to say so. May I remind you that if the standards have been lowered as alleged, then ALL academically poor students, regardless of race have an equal opportunity of passing out despite their poor academic capabilities. I know... I am also a graduate of UM. I have met non-Malay students who are poor in their academic performances.Agreed with you on this point, Chang. :D

tupai
01-11-2005, 12:20 PM
...Some of my classmates from Sixth Form, whom I knew "thru and thru" were in Law or same faculty, while many with better results were left out in the cold. No money to go overseas, they queued to places like TAR College etc. Now, what does that tell you? :mad:
...

The above is a statement of Fact. I was one of the many not so-smart cookies than my Chinese mates with >4As, in fact The Blur me only... just 3As & 2Bs:o and I joined the Q for TAR college...Many of my malay classmates with 'poorer' results than The Blur one, got into UM with scholarship! :confused: What this say eh?? :confused: and :mad:

So, until and unless the field is REALLY level and meritocracy is TRULY practised in BOTH student AND lecturer intakes ...local U-these and U-thats and UM will continue to be lowly ranked and produce low-class graduates.

yang Amat Blur lato tupai D.U.H.Mal.

p/s. I personally know the surgeon/lecturer in UH, (now in NUS & Spore PR), who confided "...I can train a cow to be a GP/doctor in 5 years..all i have to do everyday, is teach the cow to operate on appendic...and thats what I had to do..." :eek: ...think of the shame that the smarter & truly dedicated UH medic grads have to face when confronted with this statement. :o

penangkia
01-11-2005, 01:27 PM
[QUOTE=kwchang]In one breadth you have just generalised and broadly suggested the racial association to quality of medical graduates. No matter if you tried to redeem yourself by saying the 2nd part. If I was a Malay grad who sweated and burnt midnight oil to pass MBBS Mal., I'd be very angry with that statement.

Firstly, let me say that I am responding to a post previous to mine on a particular point raised. And in a nut shell, it's about meritrocracy or lack of it at uni. entry level to UM.

I use the MBBS example because it is appropriately ( for me anyway) the best to demonstrate public perceptions to the quality of malay docs, vis a vis the highly competitive entry qualifications needed to study medicine for the non malays.

If you think that this public perception is non existent or unreal, then it;s up to you. If you think that public perception is generalising, so be it.
But I would like to ask you whether you would trust your health and that of your family to a doc. whos entry to study medicine was favoured over others more qualified than himself due to policies of racial quotas ? You don't need to answer that here, just honestly to yourself will do.

I do not need to redeem myself for posting what I posted. My "substantial evidence" are my neighbours, friends, collegues and the general public at large.
Please quote my short post in full and not pick up sentences and turn it up side down. Read it as a response to other post in context to this thread.Objective criticisms are welcome.

Yes, the good and angry malay doc. Of course, if he is really good and toiled to get his MBBS Mal., he must be angry. But should he blame this public perception on the public? What other logical reasons have the public ( some malays included) to gang up against UM malay docs. Dr. Mahathir also said that no one using a pencil to test a patient's pulse is fit to be a doctor. Was he also being racial ?

Lastly, I appreciate many forumers here are also graduates of MU and if I have offended anyone, my sincere apologies. The issue discussed here is MERITOCRACY OR THE LACK OF IT IN MU/BOLEHLAND.

JackRyan1975
01-11-2005, 06:35 PM
May I remind you that if the standards have been lowered as alleged, then ALL academically poor students, regardless of race have an equal opportunity of passing out despite their poor academic capabilities.

Chang, perhaps you've not heard of special tutorials prior to exams where only certain race(s) are priviledged to attend. Suffice to say that such tutorials would help substantially the weaker students of that particular race(s) to pass their exams. Is this a right thing to do? Maybe, maybe not. You be the judge.

expat1609
01-11-2005, 07:31 PM
btw. could anybody find the complete ranking, tried a bit but not too successful ... :D

wAISEKMAo
02-11-2005, 12:16 AM
Today Utusan Malaysia, our academicians are now asking why our nation oldest Malaya University, MU, is dropped further down in the world 200 best unis.

No finger pointing here, but we all know the obvious answers, don't we? The quality of students admission is one, the criteria for admission is another and of course, our National Agenda is another deciding factor.

To the UMNO politicans, what is more important to them is the narrow minded so-called national agenda! In reality, it is the communal political agenda that matter.

Each year we see excellent high school graduates who do their school proud but yet are unable to gain admission into MU because of the so called National Agenda!

I personally interviewed some bunch of recent UM graduates. I think they are totally childish and out of realities. Other than overseas grad, we still consider grads from USM.

RJBrown
02-11-2005, 09:26 AM
Deng Xiao Ping said

"Irrespective if it is a white or black cat, so long it can catch rats, it is a good cat"

This was uttered in China :eek:.

This wisdom if follow....will benefit Bangsa Malaysia...in the long run.

uchangeng
02-11-2005, 09:39 AM
What I am really trying to put forwards is a message that the current political system in our country has put a heavy toll on our tertiary education system. So much so that the original noble objective of the unis as a place where knowledge is acquired and decimated is now in jeapordy.

What has happened to our University Act? Do our Uni still have the autonomous right in governing their respected institution? or they already lost that to the politikus?

It appears to me that the yearly uni admission issue is now hold political ransom by some politikus as part of their "survival kits". Some UMNO ministers, as we know them, are there because of their view on uni admission. How many would dare to come out in the open to declare the independence of uni. in student admission and the right of the uni to do away with quotas even after the implementation of the so called "meritocracy" system? None.

In the end of the day, if we, the citizens, continue to see univeristy as part of our race-based political equation, the uni will remain in the decline. Gone were the days when Malaysian students were once highly regarded in the Western institutions like the Oxford and Cambridge. Gone in exhange of percieved communal political gain!

jack10dd
02-11-2005, 09:55 AM
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/2/nation/12480376&sec=nation

Wednesday November 2, 2005

UM among top 100 in three sectors

BY LEANNE GOH AND KAREN CHAPMAN

KUALA LUMPUR: Universiti Malaya's overall position in the World Universities Rankings 2005 may have dropped significantly but its performance in three categories and its improved marks are achievements to be proud of, said its Vice-Chancellor Prof Datuk Dr Hashim Yaacob.

He expressed “great happiness” that UM was placed among the top 100 universities in three out of five categories – Arts and Humanities (45th place), Biomedicine (82nd) and Social Science (83rd). The other two categories are Science and Technology.

“Last year, we did not make it to the top 100 in any of the five categories, but this year we made it to three,” he told a press conference at UM on Monday.

He was speaking in reference to UM's sharp plunge in the rankings from 89 last year to 169 this year, in a survey published by The Times Higher Education Supplement (THES) last week.

On Sunday, Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said he wanted UM to study why its ranking had dropped.

Prof Hashim said that “at first glance,” it looked like UM had done badly in this year's ranking but a more thorough study would show that its performance had improved.

“Last year, our overall score was 16.6% only, but this year it was 23.5%,” he said.

However, he could not explain why UM had dropped so much in the overall rankings when it seemed to have improved in some areas.

Britain's THES annual rankings are based on measures like peer review (40%), employer survey (10%), international faculty (5%), international students (5%), staff to student ratio (20%) and the number of times research is cited by other academics (20%).

The vice-chancellor noted that there were more than 30,000 universities worldwide and UM still managed to be in the top 200.

“I want to share my happiness with you that although there are so many universities in the world, we are number 169,” he said, citing other top universities which had dropped by many notches.

Seventy universities from last year's list are not in this year's.

Prof Hashim said that while he did not dispute the methodology used for the survey, not all the criteria used were of importance to, or in the interest of, UM.

Two examples are the marks given to the percentage of international faculty as well as international students of the university.

He said the university would be meeting QS Quacquarelli Symonds, which is responsible for the peer review data and employers' feedback, on Nov 21 to discuss the criteria used in the rankings

uchangeng
02-11-2005, 10:09 AM
If the "quota system" criterion is included, there will be a number 1 spot!

bugbear
02-11-2005, 11:10 AM
You can take a look at this site. http://www.socialcapitalgateway.org/eng-deprankings.htm
:)

saml
02-11-2005, 11:53 AM
By dropping down the list one is actually better!!! No wonder mu is falling out of the top 100 and next year i think it would be even better if they drop out of the list altogether!!!

GreenBug
02-11-2005, 12:54 PM
What did you all expect him to say, really? "Oh ya, we dropped from 89 to 169 placing now. Looks like we are not very gooood anymore.... okay, we will try and see what happened. But rest assured, semuanya okay..."???? :confused:

He said exactly what we have all have expected him to say, there's no other way. In self-denial mode lah. Its people like this that made the Malaysia we are in today.... :mad:

Look at the Fat Lady at MITI, what she said about the AP issue.... its the MENTALITY-LAH !

And see why they cannot afford to have people like Jomo and Gomez around, they would foul his work up!

xaviers
02-11-2005, 01:29 PM
the best part of all this ..is that the excuses they give for the decline.

heard what the minister said... whole lot off rubbish !

Seems like they short are saying.."hey everyone.. we are not the last.. there are other Uni worse than us. So that's not bad"

How in the world or universe are we going to improve !

BTW. Do you know that the culture here is ... comparing against Singaporeans is a big NO NO...

GreenBug
02-11-2005, 01:57 PM
The worse part of his entire statement is this one :

"We got a lower ranking because there are now 2,000 universities in the ranking survey"

What a load of bulls, Prof!

JackRyan1975
02-11-2005, 02:00 PM
“Last year, our overall score was 16.6% only, but this year it was 23.5%,” he said.

However, he could not explain why UM had dropped so much in the overall rankings when it seemed to have improved in some areas.

This can go down the annals of Malaysian history as the dumbest comment coming from a VC.

The explanation is plain and simple: the reason why it dropped so much is because other unis scored even better than UM. Who cares about the overall score in absolute terms as it doesn't serve much purpose on its own but to be used as a basis for comparison with others.

ng
02-11-2005, 02:01 PM
It goes both ways actually. I'd be more comfy going to a Chinese MBBS (Malaya) compared to a Chinese MBBS (Otago) for instance. Not to say other uni is not good, but at least the quality is assured by the almost airtight admission criteria for Chinese.


I think a lot of people here are missing the point here !

You need BOTH criteria to bring one's potential to the fullest.

1. Intelligence
2. Good education

A chinese MBBS (Otago) may have better education but a chinese MBBS (malaya) may have only better intelligence (however we cannot assume that all overseas graduates have lesser intelligence)

A degree from one university is NOT equivalent to another university.
It is ridiculous to assume that UM degree is equivalent to MIT degree in terms of contents and standard of difficulty.

Due to the generally lower standard of students admitted into local universities, the exams are of considerably lower standard than the foreign universities, or else most local students will fail. My point is that you may get a grade of A in UM but will fail in a renowned overseas university.

I studied in 2 foreign universities, so i know the differing standards.

JackRyan1975
02-11-2005, 02:18 PM
I think a lot of people here are missing the point here !

You need BOTH criteria to bring one's potential to the fullest.

1. Intelligence
2. Good education

A chinese MBBS (Otago) may have better education but a chinese MBBS (malaya) may have only better intelligence (however we cannot assume that all overseas graduates have lesser intelligence)

A degree from one university is NOT equivalent to another university.
It is ridiculous to assume that UM degree is equivalent to MIT degree in terms of contents and standard of difficulty.

Due to the generally lower standard of students admitted into local universities, the exams are of considerably lower standard than the foreign universities, or else most local students will fail. My point is that you may get a grade of A in UM but will fail in a renowned overseas university.

I studied in 2 foreign universities, so i know the differing standards.

With reference to your response to my comment, I did not say that unis other than UM are not good. I was commenting on the enrolment criteria while you're responding on the curriculum. So we're writing on different issues here as I don't see how me or others had missed the point which you mentioned. Erm...come to think of it, how do I miss your point when you only commenting after me? hmm...holiday mood la...comprehend things slower now. :D

expat1609
02-11-2005, 02:32 PM
86 (77) Vienna Technical University Austria 29.5

165 (164) Innsbruck University Austria 24

169 (89) Malaya University Malaysia 23.5

we also dropped :(

sitting in the same boat :D

found total ranking thx to bugbear

tupai
02-11-2005, 02:36 PM
.."hey everyone.. we are not the last.. there are other Uni worse than us. So that's not bad" [/B]

and if I may add: " lagi, apa tu?...ya, MU made the heaviest ketupat, longest lapcheong, biggest greeting card plus many more firsts. and also many of us already climbed mt kinabalu...Thats more than the other top 131 Unis can do. We are in Malaysia book of rekod. that should mean something? no?"

Yang Ada Book of rekod lato tupai

uchangeng
02-11-2005, 02:41 PM
I think we should ask the Higher Education Minister for help, see he has any idea or not? May be the YB will say : no non-bumi for MU also?

GreenBug
02-11-2005, 05:46 PM
I think we should ask the Higher Education Minister for help, see he has any idea or not?Please don't make such suggestions anymore, uchangeng! i have stummick-ache just laughing at your suggestion.... enuff, my stummick need to stay well for the ketupats and the rendang and the dodol and the..... :D

SELAMAT HARI RAYA PROFESSOR NAIB-CANSELOR! :D

Ski
03-11-2005, 05:35 PM
The best thing the VC can do is to step down and graciously pass the baton to someone with the calibre of Prof Khoo Kay Kim who has been in the education field and in the UM for more than 40 years,we need his expertise to reinvent our education system. Ya, its true quite a tall order!!

tupai
03-11-2005, 05:58 PM
The best thing the VC can do is to step down and graciously pass the baton to someone with the calibre of Prof Khoo Kay Kim who has been in the education field and in the UM for more than 40 years,we need his expertise to reinvent our education system. Ya, its true quite a tall order!!

muahahahahaha :D anuther meritocrazy & racist joke :D

We need fresh blood certainly. Not another old academician who hasn't done anything or spoken out against current standards... and for past 40years of samasama cari makan?!!! puhleeese :mad:

yang amat bodoh lato tupai

Bigjoe
04-11-2005, 11:39 AM
To those Malay students that are good and angry that they are prejudice into people thinking they are not, let me say this: My own experience tells me that in this country, if you are good and Malay that it does not matter what the prejudice is eventually because opportunities abound for you under government programs and eventually you will get more than your fair share unless you don't have the mettle for sticking with it.

Its those Malay students that are not good that are being victimized. Eventually they will have to wake up to the reality that government cannot get them that far unless they are willing to sell their soul in politics or moral. Khir Toyo could not make it as a dentist and turned to politics and is certaintly going to hell for it. There have been many mediocre Malay doctors and lawyers who were not politically savvy and end up in the private sector and breaking the law. At the very least there are many who found making a real living tough. The 60,000 unemployed graduates is just the tip of the iceberg of mediocrity that is being kept afloat by our budget deficit, exploitation of poor non-bumiputras and other public funds.

The truth is these people still don't have it bad. If the reality of the real world were to be realized today, they will realize that their padi-farmer and fisherman and rubber tapper parents were actually better off then they were.

saml
04-11-2005, 12:58 PM
I believe that the powers that be have a vested interest to see that the common rakyat and that includes everyone, impoverished so that they can control them. Most of the common people have mortgages that they have to pay until they retire or die which ever comes first. They are encouraged to buy national cars (the non national cars are made not affordable for them) and take 9 year loans to pay them. At the end of which the cars will not have any residual value. Basically the people are enslaved. One can say, you do not have to buy. True but what are the alternatives. The public transport is hopeless and there is not public housing policy to speak of.

uchangeng
04-11-2005, 01:21 PM
We all know that a degree remains a paper qualification, without any substance, if one is unable to apply or willing to put into good use the knowledge or skill acquired from the academic training given.

If the politikus look upon a univeristy degree as the only means to wealth or licene to a "crony" career for the multitude of the poor rural Malays, it is a colossal mistake! A big mistake as it is now evident that we have erred so much so that we are now saddled with another bigger problem, 60K head counts of unemployable young graduates. Not being unemployed due to an economic condition, rather, it is an issue of poor graduates that have questionable academic credentials. Have we achieved the nation noble education objectives after 35 years, even with the entire generation of the NEP kids now going into their middle age?

May be we need another 35 years to see if we really make a mistake? I wish I am wrong!

saml
04-11-2005, 02:40 PM
I have had the experience of working in Indonesia many years ago and my, they do have a lot of universities and all those universities basically churn out graduates with virtually zero employer usable skills. I am beginning to see the same situation here in our country. Where I am working now, I have quite a few graduates from the local universities who are employed as clerks. After 3 or 4 years they are still clerks and I think that they will remain as clerks. The problem is their attitude. I tried promoting some of them but the end result was that they still performed like clerks. Even with the promotion, there is no initiative and they skive off given the first opportunity. As a result of which I had to return them to a clerical position cos they simply had no drive in them to better themselves even if given the opportunity. Basic things in what they are supposed to have majored in their university is alien to them. Accountancy graduates who can't even do simple arithmetic. They stare at you with blank faces when you ask them something simple. It reminds me of Indonesia when I was there. I was working in a place that had 4000 staff where in another country there would be only 600 staff. I think this is already happening in the public sector and the quasi government companies where there are a lot of underemployed staff.

uchangeng
04-11-2005, 09:43 PM
The irony is that when the privilleged race knows they could not compete on an equal footing in the STPM or the HSC exam, their leaders created the Metriculation(metrikulasi) in the "Asasi" program, lower the standard to get the number so that the quota is filled up. Number matters, not quality. Year after year, they churn out questionable grads in the ever greater number.

Once the grads enter the real world, in a highly competitive private sector work place, where performance is everything, their inadequacy surface. They can have a degree, so ? we all know how the degree was given, it has now become highly questionable.

Of course they are exceptions, good and qualified privilleged students who don't really care much of the government "handout", many would be offended even when the word "hulur menghulur" is uttered by fellow forumers here. But this breed of real Malaysians are few and far in between!

jack10dd
05-11-2005, 03:43 PM
FYI

Pada minggu ini heboh diperkatakan mengenai kedudukan nombor 169 Universiti Malaya (UM) hasil kaji selidik The Times Higher Education (THE) berbanding dengan di tangga 89 tahun lepas.

Kedudukan nombor bukan ukuran prestasi. Yang penting jumlah markah yang diperoleh, bukan kedudukan nombor. Contohnya, kalau seorang murid pada peperiksaan penggal pertama mendapat nombor 10 dengan markah 50 peratus, adakah lebih tinggi prestasinya berbanding dengan peperiksaan yang didudukinya pada penggal kedua sekiranya dia mendapat nombor 30 tetapi markahnya ialah 70 peratus?

Dalam hal ini kedudukan nombor tidak bermakna. Kedudukan markahnya adalah utama.

John O'Leary, Editor The Times of London memperkukuhkan pendapat saya dengan katanya mengenai kaji selidik THE itu dengan menyatakan: ``Oleh kerana kepelbagaian kriteria dengan universiti-universiti mempunyai misi berlainan dan kekuatan yang berbeza, menyebabkan ia sukar untuk dibandingkan. Tidak ada petunjuk bahawa universiti di kedudukan tertinggi dalam jadual adalah lebih baik daripada yang paling di bawah.''

Terdapat kira-kira 30,000 buah universiti di dunia. Kedudukan UM pada nombor 169 adalah sangat terbilang.

Kaji selidik THE tahun 2005 memperuntukkan pemberian sebanyak lima anugerah seperti berikut:

1) Anugerah 200 universiti yang terbaik di dunia.

2) Anugerah 100 universiti terbaik di dunia dalam lima bidang iaitu: (a) Sastera dan Sains Kemanusiaan, (b) Sains Sosial, (c) Bioperubatan, (d) Sains, (e) Teknologi.

Keputusan kaji selidik THE ini adalah seperti berikut: UM telah memenangi anugerah sebagai salah satu daripada 200 universiti yang terbaik di dunia. UM juga telah memenangi tiga daripada lima anugerah yang tersebut di bahagian 2 iaitu dalam kategori (a), (b) dan (c).

Pada tahun lepas, UM tidak memenangi sebarang anugerah dalam mana-mana kategori di bahagian 2.

Dalam kategori Sastera dan Sains Kemasyarakatan, UM mendapat nombor 45 mengalahkan universiti besar seperti National University of Singapore, John Hopkins, Michigan State, Duke, Boston, Ilinois, Wisconsin, Manchester & UMIST, St. Andrews, Frankfurt, Erasmus University Rotterdam, Amsterdam, RMIT, Seoul, Hong Kong, Tsing Hua, dan banyak lagi.

Dalam kategori Sains Sosial, UM mendapat nombor 83 mengalahkan universiti besar seperti University California San Diego, Brown (Ivy League), School of Oriental & African Studies London University, Oslo, ETH Zurich, Nanjing, Keio, Shanghai Jiao Tong dan banyak lagi.

Dalam kategori Bioperubatan, UM mendapat nombor 82 mengalahkan universiti besar seperti Carnegie Mellon, Wisconsin-Madison, Vanderbilt, University California Davis, University Southern California, Leuven Catholic Flemish, Lund, Tel Aviv, Hokkaido dan banyak lagi.

Mengikut THE, tahun lepas UM mendapat nombor 89 dengan markah 16.6. Tahun 2005 UM mendapat nombor 169 dengan markah 23.5. Dalam pandangan pembaca, yang mana lebih berprestasi - Jumlah markah atau nombor kedudukan?

Sepanjang tahun 2004 saya menekankan kepentingan markah dalam menentukan prestasi, bukan pada kedudukan nombor. Saya sering menekankan betapa pentingnya untuk kita meningkatkan markah setiap tahun, kerana kerja ini boleh kita usahakan, tetapi kedudukan nombor tidak, kerana ia bergantung kepada kemampuan universiti-universiti lain yang dinilai.

Dengan peningkatan markah kepada 23.5 pada tahun 2005 berbanding dengan markah 16.6 pada tahun 2004, maka nyatalah UM telah meningkatkan prestasinya.

jack10dd
05-11-2005, 03:44 PM
FYI

Pada tahun 2004 ada lima kriteria yang digunakan oleh THE dalam penilaian mereka. Pada tahun 2005 lima kriteria yang sama digunakan dengan satu tambahan iaitu: Pendapat majikan-majikan mengenai graduan daripada universiti mana yang diutamakan untuk diambil sebagai pekerja.

Kriteria-kriteria tersebut adalah seperti berikut:

1) Penilaian Rakan Sejawatan

Seramai 2,375 ahli akademik dari seluruh dunia (tetapi tidak diketahui dari negara mana) diminta untuk menamakan 200 universiti yang mereka anggap terbaik di dunia. Dalam bancian ini UM ditempatkan di tangga 78 daripada 200 yang dinamakan, mengalahkan University California San Francisco, Washington, Northwestern, Brown, King's College, Bristol, Adelaide, Western Australia, Durham, Zurich, Geneva, Leuven Catholic, Ecole Polytechnic Federation De Lausanne, Erasmus Rotterdam, IEP PO Paris, Pierre & Marie Curie, dan banyak lagi .

Saya yakin ramai daripada penilai-penilai rakan sejawatan yang dipilih oleh THE datangnya dari negara-negara maju di Barat. Setahu saya tidak ada seorang pun profesor dari UM telah dipilih untuk menganggotai panel rakan sejawatan ini.

Oleh itu, sudah pastilah mereka mengutamakan universiti-universiti di negara mereka. Tetapi walaupun begitu, kejayaan UM berada di tahap 78 adalah petanda yang menunjukkan bahawa UM memang dihormati oleh rakan-rakan sejawat. Markah UM dalam kriteria ini meningkat pada tahun 2005 berbanding tahun 2004. Ini adalah satu peningkatan prestasi.

2) Nisbah Pensyarah kepada Pelajar

Markah UM dalam kriteria ini meningkat pada tahun 2005 berbanding tahun 2004. Ini adalah satu peningkatan prestasi.

3) Rujukan yang dibuat oleh penyelidik lain kepada penerbitan staf universiti yang dinilai

Didapati bahawa dalam kaji selidik THE, universiti-universiti yang menerbitkan makalah masing-masing dalam bahasa Inggeris selalunya dibaca dan dirujuk oleh banyak pihak. Semakin kerap rujukan dibuat lebih tinggilah markah yang diperoleh di dalam kriteria ini. Umpamanya, University of California San Francisco yang stafnya menerbitkan makalah dalam bahasa Inggeris memperoleh 44 markah pada kedudukan nombor 17 dalam senarai 200 universiti terbaik, sedangkan Beijing University yang jarang sekali menggunakan bahasa Inggeris memperoleh 0 markah, walaupun kedudukannya adalah lebih tinggi iaitu nombor 15.

Meskipun staf UM menerbitkan makalah mereka dalam pelbagai bahasa seperti Melayu, Arab, Cina dan Inggeris, tetapi markah yang diperolehnya adalah setanding dengan London School of Economics, RMIT University Australia, University of Technology Sydney, Curtin University of Technology Australia, University of South Australia.

Markah UM dalam kriteria ini meningkat pada tahun 2005 berbanding tahun 2004. Ini adalah satu peningkatan prestasi.

4) Bilangan Kakitangan Asing

Kriteria ini merujuk kepada jumlah staf akademik dari negara asing yang berkhidmat di universiti yang dinilai. Lebih banyak kakitangan asing ini, maka lebih tinggilah markah yang diperoleh. National University of Singapore memperoleh 94 markah (50 peratus tenaga akademiknya dan 75 peratus penyelidik adalah warga asing), UM, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cornell, Munich, Helsinki, Michigan State hanya memperoleh 11 hingga 12 markah sahaja kerana bilangan kakitangan dari negara asing tidak ramai.

Kriteria ini perlulah dikaji dan diteliti dengan baik demi memenuhi aspirasi nasional supaya tidak mengetepikan warga sendiri.

5) Bilangan Pelajar Asing

Kriteria ini merujuk kepada jumlah pelajar dari negara asing yang menuntut di universiti yang dinilai. Lebih banyak pelajar asing, maka lebih tinggilah markah yang diperoleh. Buat masa ini negara kita perlu membangunkan tenaga manusia melalui pemberian pelajaran di tahap universiti kepada rakyat kita sendiri seramai yang boleh, dan kerajaan mempunyai dasar yang mengutamakan pencapaian ini.

6). Pendapat Majikan-majikan

Kriteria ini adalah kriteria tambahan yang baru digunakan pada tahun 2005. Ia mengambil kira pendapat majikan-majikan mengenai graduan dari universiti mana yang diutamakan mereka untuk diambil sebagai pekerja.

Dalam kaji selidik THE 2005 didapati Universiti Harvard memperoleh 100 markah, sementara universiti terkemuka seperti Tokyo, Seoul, National Taiwan, Korea Institute Science & Technology, Osaka, Sorbonne, Frankfurt, Bologna, Lund, UM dan banyak lagi universiti memperoleh antara 0 hingga 2 markah sahaja.

Melihat pada hakikat ini, di manakah agaknya lokasi majikan-majikan ini? Adakah majikan-majikan ini akan memilih graduan UM sebagai pekerja mereka sekiranya mereka berlokasi di negara Barat?

Nah! terfikirkah sendiri sama ada kriteria-kriteria ini sesuai untuk dipakai bagi menilai universiti-universiti di negara kita. Tetapi walaupun kriteria-kriteria yang digunakan tidak sebegitu sesuai dengan keadaan kita, UM masih lagi berjaya ternobat di dalam senarai 200 universiti terbaik dunia.

Kita tidak perlu bimbang dengan penurunan kedudukan nombor UM daripada 89 tahun 2004 kepada 169 tahun 2005 kerana kedudukan pada nombor tidak bermakna sangat.

Markah yang diperoleh adalah lebih penting kerana ia mencerminkan kemajuan.

Sekiranya kita masih bimbang tentang hal ini, sukacita saya menyatakan bahawa di dalam kaji selidik THE 2005 itu terdapat lebih kurang 90 universiti tersohor yang menurun kedudukan nombor, atau terkeluar terus pada tahun 2005.

Yang menurun antaranya ialah University California Berkeley, California Institute Technology, Tokyo, ETH Zurich, Australian National University, Kyoto, Michigan, Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, University California Los Angeles, University California San Diego, Illinois, Adelaide, RMIT, Tokyo Institute Technology, Sussex, School of Oriental & African Studies London University, Osaka, Otago, St. Andrews, Leiden, California Santa Barbara, Tufts, Tech. Uni. Berlin, Massey, Royal Institute of Technology Sweden.

Yang terkeluar adalah Universiti Dundee, Aberdeen, Leicester, Queens University Belfast, Southampton, Indiana, Arizona, Tulane, Utah, Freiburg, University California Santa Cruz, Virginia , Wurzburg, Rutgers, TH Darmstadt, Norwegian Science Technology, Bonn, Brandies, Kiel, Montpellier 1, Karlscruhe, Pohang Science & Technology, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.

Kalau kita juga ingin mengetahui tentang betapa terbilangnya nama UM, dan kita masih juga ingin mementingkan kedudukan nombor daripada markah, kita mestilah sedar bahawa ada universiti-universiti yang sangat tersohor yang langsung tidak termasuk dalam senarai 200 terbaik THE 2005.

Antaranya ialah Ohio, Iowa, Oregon, Temple, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Kentucky, Texas Dallas, Salford, Lancaster, Reading, Stirling, Strathclycyde, Surrey, Aston, East Anglia, Essex, Aston, Bradford, Brighton, Brunel, Exeter, Heriot-Watt, Hull, Kent, Hertfordshire, Bangor, Swansea, Cardiff, Dalhousie, Saskatchewan, Ottawa, Manitoba, Quebec, Calgary, Canberra, Wollonggong, Flinders, Waikato, Canterbury, Victoria Wellington, Lincoln, Bern, Cologne, Hanover, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Cork, Dublin NUI, Ghent, Bergen, Oulu, Turku, Waseda, Umea, Linkoping, Stockholm, Karolinska.

UM akan sentiasa meningkatkan prestasinya dari semasa ke semasa dengan bersungguh-sungguh supaya ia berjaya menjadi satu pusat pengajian tinggi yang disegani dunia. UM mempunyai satu pelan strategik pembangunan, yang menuju ke arah peningkatan kualiti staf dan pelajar, penyelidikan, pembelajaran, penarafan antarabangsa, khidmat masyarakat, pengurusan infrastruktur dan sumber harta.

Bagi kesemua hala tuju ini UM mempunyai matlamat, strategi dan sasaran yang terperinci. Saya berharap semua rakyat Malaysia akan menjadi lebih peka untuk membantu dan memelihara UM kepunyaan kita semua. UM pasti boleh meningkatkan prestasi dari semasa ke semasa.

Dengan kedudukan 200 terbaik, serta memenangi tiga kategori universiti terbaik bersama peningkatan markah pada tahun 2005 berbanding dengan tahun 2004, dan peningkatan dalam prestasi kebanyakan kriteria yang digunakan, maka yakinlah bahawa UM telah menjadi universiti yang lebih baik pada tahun ini berbanding dengan tahun sebelumnya. UM sudah terbilang!

- Prof. Datuk Dr. Hashim Yaacob ialah Naib Canselor Universiti Malaya (UM).


http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Rencana

saml
05-11-2005, 04:45 PM
Looks like someone is trying to blind us with mediocrity. We peasants cannot fathom the logic behind the explanation.

saml
05-11-2005, 04:49 PM
I cannot comprehend how it is that we are better off if we have slipped down the rankings. The entrance of new comers does not justify the fact the slip. The cake has grown bigger but we would want to maintain our share right?

saml
05-11-2005, 04:53 PM
If given the choice they would rather not be rated. Then they can claim to be one of the best in the world and nobody can dispute that! They can then carry on living under a coconut shell. Just like what Thailand has done to their automotive industry. At one time we were ahead of them, now we are very much behind them and in time to come we may even be behind the Philipines, Vietnam if we carry on like this.

expat1609
05-11-2005, 08:00 PM
yes, jack10dd, interresting facts, but i struggle to understand (not only because of by very very average bahas malaysia) why if so many categories are excellent, the final result looks so different.

still think saml, #39, says it more clear and thats the way to go.

stop talking in big numbers and great phrases, start calling problems by their names, accept facts and go for practical solutions.

i notice since the first day i was working in here, that meetings are the solution for everything.

i had those experience once, where a meeting was held about a problem on the machine. topic was mainly how did this happen, who to blame, what to do to prevent it in future. the whole 1 1/2 hours we were in this meeting the machine could not produce. when i finally was fed up, i went to "toilet", actually down to the factory, it took me 10 minutes to fix the machine and start production :eek: ,
back from "toilet" i was asked for my opinion on it.
when told my opinion, basically "hard work" is better then stupid meetings without any useful result, i saw only long faces around me.
embarrasing, isn't it ? but still today, meetings in aircon-rooms are preferred to the hot and dirty factory :rolleyes:

anyway jackdd10: are you by any chance engaged in politics ???

saml
06-11-2005, 11:34 AM
Jack must be one of those employed by mu to enlighten the ignorant public why by dropping in ranking, one is actually better off. I would hate it when my children comes home and tells me that their positions in class have dropped because some brighter students have been transferred over to their class and the teacher says they are overall better than before!!!

GreenBug
06-11-2005, 05:13 PM
I have had the experience of working in Indonesia many years ago and my, they do have a lot of universities and all those universities basically churn out graduates with virtually zero employer usable skills. I am beginning to see the same situation here in our country. Where I am working now, I have quite a few graduates from the local universities who are employed as clerks. After 3 or 4 years they are still clerks and I think that they will remain as clerks. The problem is their attitude. I tried promoting some of them but the end result was that they still performed like clerks. Even with the promotion, there is no initiative and they skive off given the first opportunity. As a result of which I had to return them to a clerical position cos they simply had no drive in them to better themselves even if given the opportunity. Basic things in what they are supposed to have majored in their university is alien to them. Accountancy graduates who can't even do simple arithmetic. They stare at you with blank faces when you ask them something simple. It reminds me of Indonesia when I was there. I was working in a place that had 4000 staff where in another country there would be only 600 staff. I think this is already happening in the public sector and the quasi government companies where there are a lot of underemployed staff.My current maid in Brunei is a Filipino graduate. What does that say to you?

penangkia
06-11-2005, 06:43 PM
My current maid in Brunei is a Filipino graduate. What does that say to you?

It says to me that there was a time the Philippines was way ahead of us, and if this has befallen onto to them, our turn is not a fantasy if we continue the direction we are heading. I only hope it will not happen in my lifetime.

This year, 60k unemployable...next year and next and next....even in bolehland, they will run out of hand-outs.

uchangeng
07-11-2005, 08:39 AM
OK.., UM is not 'bad', in fact we should all be proud of our nation oldest uni. Console ourselves, go on with life, take the numbers from the pro., celebrate the good things and ignore the bad ones. Tell our children that we are in the good hand of the VC and it is perfectly normal even if we are not listed at all.

My advice is, may be we should all go on believing and day dreaming!

Continue to dream up something to say each time we slip down the list and diasppear altogether!

tupai
07-11-2005, 08:50 AM
My current maid in Brunei is a Filipino graduate. What does that say to you?

GB,some years back, we presented the whole year marcon plan to yr xcolleague in nestle. And after 3 hrs of this & that, he said..."I have to come back to you on this...i need to consult my filipina maid. She has an MBA..." in half jest but it was the truth :eek: his maid outranked my uk ba lah :eek:
...
also ah, sunday star carries a comment from a MU guy, he said that the previous year's ranking was incorrect cos the people/judges mistook m'sian chinese & indian as foreign students...so we kena bonus high point in the foreign student marks...they realised the mistake this year, took the corrective measures and viola! semuanya TAK ok...Better kita semua terus aje mimpi (and without the need for hallucinating substances too :D :D

yang amat boleh lato tupai

Ski
07-11-2005, 09:08 AM
What a glorious nite MU beat Chelsea and ended their 40 game unbeaten record in the Premiership...sorry guys for this disgression just couldnt resist my happiness.ok i am off for celeberation..you guys can continue with the other issue.

TQ

xaviers
07-11-2005, 09:50 AM
with explanation given by the Prof. .. no wonder ..students stare with blank faces.. I also stare with blank face... like this MU no face.

orchipalar
07-11-2005, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Jack10dd: FYI

Pada minggu ini heboh diperkatakan mengenai kedudukan nombor 169 Universiti Malaya (UM) hasil kaji selidik The Times Higher Education (THE) berbanding dengan di tangga 89 tahun lepas.

Kedudukan nombor bukan ukuran prestasi. Yang penting jumlah markah yang diperoleh, bukan kedudukan nombor. Contohnya, kalau seorang murid pada peperiksaan penggal pertama mendapat nombor 10 dengan markah 50 peratus, adakah lebih tinggi prestasinya berbanding dengan peperiksaan yang didudukinya pada penggal kedua sekiranya dia mendapat nombor 30 tetapi markahnya ialah 70 peratus?

Dalam hal ini kedudukan nombor tidak bermakna. Kedudukan markahnya adalah utama.

John O'Leary, Editor The Times of London memperkukuhkan pendapat saya dengan katanya mengenai kaji selidik THE itu dengan menyatakan: ``Oleh kerana kepelbagaian kriteria dengan universiti-universiti mempunyai misi berlainan dan kekuatan yang berbeza, menyebabkan ia sukar untuk dibandingkan. Tidak ada petunjuk bahawa universiti di kedudukan tertinggi dalam jadual adalah lebih baik daripada yang paling di bawah.''

Terdapat kira-kira 30,000 buah universiti di dunia. Kedudukan UM pada nombor 169 adalah sangat terbilang.

Err...Orchi shall wait til the next time...should UM falls further down n off the ranking of top 200 unis...ahem...then we would know already...n we would hear the same freaking tunes of excuses...err...UM would stil be TOP 300 or TOP 400 unis ...bla bla bla :rolleyes:

uchangeng
07-11-2005, 11:15 AM
In the first place, if the rating is "not suitable" and "not so much in line with our national agenda", even implying that it is totally unfit to rate UM based on Western agenda, why then the VC Prof. have his entire uni decorated with the huge billborads and banners to announce his "achievement"?

The entire campus looks like a BN election campaign site, wonder what the VC trying to do? "angkat" the DPM and the Dato so that his contract could be extended?

Is it even legal to put up huge polical billboards that promote or seen to raise profile of politicians in uni campus? I thought we have strick rule that uni campus should not be used as a political battle feild (medan politik)?

Do you see the LKY portrait prominantly displayed in NUS. campus? Haven't seen one.

In MIT., got Bush photo or not?

Or have you seen Tony Blair self profile in the Cambridge?

GreenBug
07-11-2005, 11:20 AM
For many an UM graduate in Business Administration, the name DR. SIEH MEI LING is some sort of an icon. A highly-recognised marketing expert by her oversea counterparts, author of numerous marketing books, well-known researcher, a respected expert in and a promoter of the SERVICE industry, 30 years lecturing experience in UM, consultant to various international bodies including the UN and the Malaysian government, she never even made it to be a faculty dean.

Dr. Sieh was also my supervising professor when I did my MBA thesis in UM. She's now retired.

Knowing the above, and many other true cases of poor management by the UM top honchos, I have never ever doubted UM will slide to 169. As a matter of fact, I am actually surprised it is not lower than 169! :mad:

orchipalar
07-11-2005, 11:21 AM
John O'Leary, Editor The Times of London memperkukuhkan pendapat saya dengan katanya mengenai kaji selidik THE itu dengan menyatakan: ``Oleh kerana kepelbagaian kriteria dengan universiti-universiti mempunyai misi berlainan dan kekuatan yang berbeza, menyebabkan ia sukar untuk dibandingkan. Tidak ada petunjuk bahawa universiti di kedudukan tertinggi dalam jadual adalah lebih baik daripada yang paling di bawah.''

Err...dear Jack10dd:)...what do ya say to that? :D

uchangeng
07-11-2005, 12:32 PM
Greenbug, don't get racial, just go thru the UM prof. and the faculty deans lists and you will see why the best have left. Brain drain. Soon, they will have to increase lecturers from somewhere India or Burma like they do the Burmese doc..

Wonder why brain drain ah....?

Now we see the importance of keeping our uni. independent from political manipulation!

tryagain
07-11-2005, 12:49 PM
As our Uni is no longer in the top, there are people questioning the grading on how they arrive that MU is 169th place. They think it is unfair to grade MU that low and think this is unfair, that is unfair...
MU must improve from now not questioning how they grade University.
We must accept we are behind and then we can improve....

GreenBug
07-11-2005, 01:21 PM
Greenbug, don't get racial, just go thru the UM prof. and the faculty deans lists and you will see why the best have left. Brain drain.I didn't get racial uchangeng, did I? I merely mentioned she didn't even make it, lack of meritocracy.

penangkia
07-11-2005, 01:35 PM
As our Uni is no longer in the top, there are people questioning the grading on how they arrive that MU is 169th place. They think it is unfair to grade MU that low and think this is unfair, that is unfair...
MU must improve from now not questioning how they grade University.
We must accept we are behind and then we can improve....

Quite right...they first celebrate their top 200 position...then when publicly criticised,...complain about unfairness in the polling etc etc.
But nothing to suggest how they plan to make ground for next year's rating.

So, what's the plan VC ? or is all this just another orang puteh conspiracy to degrade bolehland. :rolleyes:

Damn, what has NUS done with those white devils ? Based on meritrocracy, we can't be that far apart. We can't be.. just impossible to lose so much..something is not right..NUS was once part of us..how could they have gone so far...not right, something smells...surely not our fault..we are the Mother of all developing nations..we held the Commonwealth games, we stage F1 GPs and we have the famous Malaysia Cup...the tiny dot can ehh?
No,no, no, definately not our fault...Bush must be behind all this.......... ;)

Ski
07-11-2005, 01:57 PM
Would this ratings thing, affect future enrolments..Would there be still a rush for places? Will this be a bearing for some critical families to find alternative places of higher studies? and allowing the less fortunate more places to enrol

So this whole hullabaloo could turn out to be a blessing for some. ;)

GreenBug
07-11-2005, 02:02 PM
Self-denial mode, biasalah..... but I don't think Bush is behind this, must be some conspiracy by the western interests wanting to destroy our education system and see Malaysia fail in its route to 2020... :D KONSPIRASI PUAK BARAT untuk menjatuhkan maruah bangsa dan negara! Hey 'ello Mr. VC, semuanya ok-kah? :D :D :D

VeeJay
08-11-2005, 02:36 PM
>>
John O'Leary, Editor The Times of London memperkukuhkan pendapat saya dengan katanya mengenai kaji selidik THE itu dengan menyatakan: ``Oleh kerana kepelbagaian kriteria dengan universiti-universiti mempunyai misi berlainan dan kekuatan yang berbeza, menyebabkan ia sukar untuk dibandingkan. Tidak ada petunjuk bahawa universiti di kedudukan tertinggi dalam jadual adalah lebih baik daripada yang paling di bawah.
<<

if the the above is true...then it make no sense about the press release on STAR below...if ranking was not important then why do this guys talks about improvement from last year?!

KUALA LUMPUR: Universiti Malaya's overall position in the World Universities Rankings 2005 may have dropped significantly but its performance in three categories and its improved marks are achievements to be proud of, said its Vice-Chancellor Prof Datuk Dr Hashim Yaacob.

He expressed “great happiness” that UM was placed among the top 100 universities in three out of five categories – Arts and Humanities (45th place), Biomedicine (82nd) and Social Science (83rd). The other two categories are Science and Technology.

“Last year, we did not make it to the top 100 in any of the five categories, but this year we made it to three,” he told a press conference at UM on Monday.

He was speaking in reference to UM's sharp plunge in the rankings from 89 last year to 169 this year, in a survey published by The Times Higher Education Supplement (THES) last week. (Take part in our online poll on the issue)
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/11/2/nation/12480376&sec=nation

Ski
08-11-2005, 02:54 PM
>>


He was speaking in reference to UM's sharp plunge in the rankings from 89 last year to 169 this year, in a survey published by The Times Higher Education Supplement (THES) last week.[/url]


Just wondering if the The Times made a blunder last year and voting us 89 could have been 189, the drop is unbelievable or is it?

saml
08-11-2005, 03:24 PM
There was this vc called syed alatas or something like that. I think he promoted a few fellas to be deans of their respective faculties based on merits and there was a big political uproar and this guy was eventually forced to step down. One of those guys was head hunted by nanyang tech u in singapore and they paid him like 4 times what he was getting(even with the promotion) and they gave him a weekly flight back to kl from singapore. That was a malaysian indian by the way. One can see where the brain has drained to. My nephew is from one of those independent chinese schools. In his class 17 of them were offered scholarships by the singapore to do their engineering degrees in nanyang tu.And that's just from one class in one independent school. Imagine the number of those brainy people that we are losing and these are the people that we can ill afford to lose.

balitan
08-11-2005, 04:19 PM
at times i do wonder why our local academics border to defend the status
of our local uni s when they themselves know what trash they themselves
are made of !!!!!

right from form 3, our neighbour sends out invitations to 'draw' our bright
students, giving scholarships etc knowing that once out there, these boys and girls will definitely continue their education there, and ultimately will work there, stay there etc and contribute to the talent pool there

not to say that all those remaining are 'rubbish' but a large majority of good
ones have flown our soils

all talk of meritocracy, etc is really _ull !!

when the standing dropped, excuses like 'what criteria did they use',

white man's criteria not asia man 's criteria etc

with this type of attitude and mentality, one can talk till the cows come home, if they come home at all

si penkritik........

GreenBug
08-11-2005, 05:29 PM
The whole (higher) education system has rotten to the core. Sacking the VC alone won't make much difference. There is a need for an overall overhaul... starting from the top, a kind of attitude and mentality change, that includes stuffing the present Higher Education Minister aside for what he's worth...

Go on meritocracy, give recognition and opportunities and assistance (support) to the bright and potential ones, we (the country) would never lose out using this approach....

xaviers
08-11-2005, 05:43 PM
just imagine those guys who graduated long time ago before the decline. Aiyo..certificate tak boleh pakai loh....


Aren't we trying to be the higher educational hub ? Ini macam boleh ka ?

GreenBug
08-11-2005, 05:47 PM
just imagine those guys who graduated long time ago before the decline. Aiyo..certificate tak boleh pakai loh....

Aren't we trying to be the higher educational hub ? Ini macam boleh ka ?Hello Xaviers, luckily now no need to show certs anymore... sudah mau pencen mau cari kerja lagikah? Incidentally, I have both my bachelor and master's from MU lah, just took them down from the wall in my very own private study in the house.... malulah, nanti kawan dari NUS nampak! :D

penangkia
08-11-2005, 11:12 PM
Aren't we trying to be the higher educational hub ? Ini macam boleh ka ?[/QUOTE]


Education hub my foot....Lubrication hub lar...that, no one will challenge it's ever improving ranking :D

MKEL
08-11-2005, 11:52 PM
There was this vc called syed alatas or something like that. I think he promoted a few fellas to be deans of their respective faculties based on merits and there was a big political uproar and this guy was eventually forced to step down. One of those guys was head hunted by nanyang tech u in singapore and they paid him like 4 times what he was getting(even with the promotion) and they gave him a weekly flight back to kl from singapore. That was a malaysian indian by the way. One can see where the brain has drained to. My nephew is from one of those independent chinese schools. In his class 17 of them were offered scholarships by the singapore to do their engineering degrees in nanyang tu.And that's just from one class in one independent school. Imagine the number of those brainy people that we are losing and these are the people that we can ill afford to lose.

Well, what to do? Our G doesn't know how to appreciate our pool of talents. Only know how to organize extra classes for certain students which is supposed to be kept a secret ????

No wonder the goods ones are not staying....

uchangeng
09-11-2005, 09:47 AM
Soi Lek criticised for his remarkes on MARA medic scholars not returning home after their studies overseas. UMNO party boss was quoted to say that the Health Minister should instead call upon all those private medical students to return and serve their beloved country to prove their loyalty and show their appreciation to the nation!

What? those private students who have probably sold all they have and those of their entire family's to make it to the foreign u, earned themselves scholarshipes with their brain where their own country refused them and this UMNO politikus is talking about their patrioticsm?

Ski
09-11-2005, 09:50 AM
I have both my bachelor and master's from MU lah,


Wow!! we are very priveliged to have you, Sir in our midst to spend some of your busy time in sharing your views in this humble forum. :) I too have a Phd{permanent head damage} ;)

Just curious are you an entomologist, your nick gives me a notion that you love insects.

penangkia
09-11-2005, 11:53 AM
Soi Lek criticised for his remarkes on MARA medic scholars not returning home after their studies overseas. UMNO party boss was quoted to say that the Health Minister should instead call upon all those private medical students to return and serve their beloved country to prove their loyalty and show their appreciation to the nation!

What? those private students who have probably sold all they have and those of their entire family's to make it to the foreign u, earned themselves scholarshipes with their brain where their own country refused them and this UMNO politikus is talking about their patrioticsm?


What do you expect from people who talk through their assholds with their brains under service most of the time.
Not only have those who sold their possessions and/or have taken out bank loans to finance their kid to study overseas, these people have also paid heaps of blood, sweat and tears taxes over the years. And guess where those taxes are going to ...along with alot of useless projects to the taxpayers...and apart from full schlarships, they are used to finance sons and daughters of connected special rights millionaires to study overseas. And what's more, Do you believe these gomen grants, loans etc. were ever paid back? :mad:
Some years ago,I was having a drink with a young collegue of mine who belongs to the previledged class when this subject came up. When asked how much he had to put aside each month to pay his gomen overseas study loan installment....he looked at me with a sardonic smile and whispered " are you serious, what payment?"
What's more annoying was that he said it with such a smirk and without a whiffy care of awareness that it was me and a million others who made it possible for him to study overseas.
That my friend is patriotism for you. :o

saml
09-11-2005, 12:45 PM
The fact remains that our yb did not even respond. Publish the names of all those who were awarded the scholarships on merit and did not return. Revoke their passports. As usual those private self funded students are made scape goats and the protectors of our rights pretend never hear. In time to come we may have a law whereby self sponsored students may have to have a guarantor for their return. If I propose such an idea in parliament, I may even be made a minister for coming up with such a brilliant idea to reverse the brain drain!!! By the way it would only apply to self funded students because can bully what.

JackRyan1975
09-11-2005, 12:49 PM
Heard that many British unis are setting branch campuses in China. Looks like our Special Education Envoy and Higher Ed Minister has been producing zero results but with all the fanfare. Prolly again they'll say we're not to be compared with China.

uchangeng
09-11-2005, 02:06 PM
now we know the full extent of the brain drain we are suffering from, heamorage!!

chinese has this saying, don't let the fertile and fat water flow to the neighbour paddy. Looks like we have a free flow and the politikus are still bickering over race and religion!

Good luck Malaysia!

GreenBug
09-11-2005, 08:55 PM
Wow!! we are very priveliged to have you, Sir in our midst to spend some of your busy time in sharing your views in this humble forum. :) I too have a Phd{permanent head damage} ;)

Just curious are you an entomologist, your nick gives me a notion that you love insects.Yup... you have a PhD alright (permanent head damage) since you cannot tell a difference between an insect and a Volkswagen....:rolleyes:

GreenBug
09-11-2005, 09:04 PM
Wow!! we are very priveliged to have you, Sir in our midst to spend some of your busy time in sharing your views in this humble forum. :) I too have a Phd{permanent head damage} ;)

Just curious are you an entomologist, your nick gives me a notion that you love insects.Yup... you have a PhD (Permanent Head Damage) alright.... Anyway, you might be too young to know but a BUG is what most people call their Volkswagen Beetle from the 1960s-1970s. :rolleyes:

GreenBug
09-11-2005, 09:08 PM
Wow!! we are very priveliged to have you, Sir in our midst to spend some of your busy time in sharing your views in this humble forum. :) I too have a Phd{permanent head damage} ;)

Just curious are you an entomologist, your nick gives me a notion that you love insects.Yup, you have a PhD (permanent head damage alright) to be able to tell between an insect and a car... :rolleyes:

uchangeng
10-11-2005, 11:31 PM
The government decided that appointment of future VC in 15 local public unis to be based on recommendation from a working committee(that works I hope!).

This is what I call, change the soup but the herbs in it remains the same.

As long as local unis are treated like a piece of bargaining chip on the chess board of UMNO politikus and the student admission remains race-based and not metritocracy, our local unis will remain what I call "communal unis.", set up to cater for the political need of a particular community, like a community project that got extra make over attention(all the huge bill boards and banners that praise the UMNO leaders. Have you ever seen SAMY or Ong KT or Dato Kayveas' portraits in the campus? No.) or slush funding each time an election is near. Unless there is a category for community unis. in THES ranking, otherwise I see no reason how the 15 "kampumg unis" can ever make it to the world 200. USM is already out of the list, sad but is true. Pretty soon, out go the last one, mark my word!

pokemon
13-11-2005, 06:09 PM
I just read Jeffooi blog and so "malu" that the UM VC had advertised its rank with the shameless banner around the campus. :mad:

JackRyan1975
14-11-2005, 09:31 AM
The government decided that appointment of future VC in 15 local public unis to be based on recommendation from a working committee(that works I hope!).

That's Shafie's idea. The selection committee is to be formed by him and recommends to him potential VCs. And he came up with another stupid remark that the committee members would be 'SECRET'. So much for Pak Lah's call for accountability and transparency.

Voter
14-11-2005, 10:48 AM
There are more than 20,000 universities in the world. As long as we are in the upper portion of the 20,000, we are ok. So be prepared to celebrate if MU is placed 9998th position and USM 9999th position next year, because we are still one or two of the best 20,000 in the world!